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curtis rosche
11-21-2011, 12:09 PM
ive recently gained an interest in bumping up my car stereo a bit. i have never really delt with audio stuff before. any recomendations as to what brand of subs to look at or cheap places to get them? or any brands to stay away from?

Greg Portland
11-21-2011, 1:58 PM
Building the subwoofer is a fairly easy DIY project. Running the power and signal cables from your battery and head unit can be more involved. Specific recommendations are going to depend on your budget, how loud and/or musical you want the bass and the amount of area you're willing to devote in your vehicle to a subwoofer enclosure. In general, a smaller enclosure will require more power to achieve the same output level (i.e. a more expensive amplifier and possibly an upgrade to the car's electrical system to power that amp). For example, I have a 2 cu.ft. enclosure in my car and it only needs a 250W amp which is easily powered by my stock existing alternator. My choice of driver & enclosure size was for bass extension, not pure output.

Recommended steps:
1) Does your head unit have a subwoofer output? If not, compare the cost of a crossover with a new head unit.
2) Determine the performance you want from your subwoofer. How musical and how loud? Based on this & your budget determine the amp, driver, and enclosure that you'll need.
3) Does your vehicle have existing wiring for an optional sub? If not, you'll need to run power from your battery (through a fuse @ the battery and at the amp unless you want your car to burn down!!!). The wiring needs to be sized appropriately for the amplifier or it will melt (I used 4g wire which is considered small in most custom installs). If you don't have a signal wire then you'll need to run 1-2 coax cables (typically RCA terminated) from your head unit to the sub location. These can typically be run under the door trim or under the floor mats. Pay particular attention to your grounding system or you will have a hum on your sub. It is highly likely that you'll need to upgrade the ground wires (chassis to neg battery, engine to chassis, and alternator to pos. battery) in your vehicle. Google "big 3 upgrade" for more info.
4) Build the subwoofer and test it outside the vehicle. A long post is required to list all the tips and tricks for building enclosures (don't worry, it's not too hard).

partsexpress.com is a good source for all the parts you'll need.

Wayne Hendrix
11-21-2011, 5:40 PM
... or any brands to stay away from?
All of them. I'm 37 and cant pick out words in a conversation if there is background noise. I have had entire conversations where I have no idea what was said to me or what I agreed to. I know this is unwanted advice but ...

Rich Engelhardt
11-21-2011, 5:53 PM
All of them. I'm 37 and cant pick out words in a conversation if there is background noise. I have had entire conversations where I have no idea what was said to me or what I agreed to. I know this is unwanted advice but
LOL!
(laughing w/you not @ you)

I know that feeling all too well.

My wife and I will go somewhere & someone will be talking to me. I just nod my head most of the time in some noncommital fashion.
If it comes down to me having to actually answer something, I look at my wife & she has to repeat what the person asked.

She's always after me to go get my hearing checked - total waste of time IMO - I can't hear squat & don't have to pay someone to tell me I can't hear.
The when she brings up that I need a hearing aid, I just tell her 90% of what's going on isn't worht listening to anyhow - the other 10% I just look at her or say "Huh"?

That usually ends w/me getting a little "love tap" from her.
(translation - she gives me a good hard shot to the upper arm & walks away - leaving me to my blissful silence - well except for that herd of crickets that are always chirping :D)

Charlie Reals
11-21-2011, 6:55 PM
LOL!
(laughing w/you not @ you)

I know that feeling all too well.

My wife and I will go somewhere & someone will be talking to me. I just nod my head most of the time in some noncommital fashion.
If it comes down to me having to actually answer something, I look at my wife & she has to repeat what the person asked.

She's always after me to go get my hearing checked - total waste of time IMO - I can't hear squat & don't have to pay someone to tell me I can't hear.
The when she brings up that I need a hearing aid, I just tell her 90% of what's going on isn't worht listening to anyhow - the other 10% I just look at her or say "Huh"?

That usually ends w/me getting a little "love tap" from her.
(translation - she gives me a good hard shot to the upper arm & walks away - leaving me to my blissful silence - well except for that herd of crickets that are always chirping :D)

Yep +1 to that, mine wasn't from subs in cars butt loss is loss. Pre osha,the only ear protection was a butt filter in your ears lol.

ray hampton
11-21-2011, 6:59 PM
when some driver pull up close to me at a red light, I would turn my radio up until the last loud radio that I heard and I told the driver to turn his radio up, he look at me for a minute before he turn his radio down

curtis rosche
11-21-2011, 7:17 PM
when picking an amp, do you go by the max wattage of the two speakers, or by the rms wattage?

Greg Portland
11-22-2011, 5:04 PM
when picking an amp, do you go by the max wattage of the two speakers, or by the rms wattage?You pick by amp quality 1st and then by wattage. A Class-D amp is fine for subwoofers. You want to avoid under-powering the sub (clipping will blow the driver). For 2 drivers, you can drive one off of stereo channels or run them in series or parallel & drive them with one channel. Having said that, if you have two 500W max drivers then get a 2x500W amp or a 1000W single channel amp.

John Lohmann
11-22-2011, 7:40 PM
Have you changed the factory speakers yet? That can make a big difference without changing you headend & adding a amp

Derek Gilmer
11-22-2011, 9:12 PM
Are you going for sound quality or sound level? Most "thumping" systems around here are about 20db to high on everything under 120hz. Also what is your budget and what size enclosure can you fit in the car?

Tim Morton
11-22-2011, 9:44 PM
I have been installing car audio (serious stuff), in my cars for over 30 years....and think i can offer some advice here. But first things first. Tells us about your car, your skills, your budget , your music, and your expectations, and maybe most important, how much space in your trunk or hatchback are you willing to give up?

Generally i would suggest replacing the Head unit if possible, but alot of times in new cars that is impossible..if thats the case there are solutions to take that output signal and maximize it into aftermarket amplifications
Next replace the front speakers...and if possible remove the rear speakers...they don't help and usually hurt. If you keep them, thrun them way down.
subwoofer...a single 12" sub will give you solid output at most reasonable listening levels. Some 10's can do the same thing, but you will want 2 of them....if you have the space go for it. 8's are wicked cool too..you need more than 2, and they have limitations..but they are fun to play with.
power...get some!! Things to stay away from ...chrome...if it has chrome on it, i will almost guarantee it is cheap ...Go talk to an audio sales guy in your town...you will know almost instantly if he deserves any of your money..if you see a red flag...run. The biggest red flag...ask him to see the install bay, and ask him for a list of 3 recent customers to call and talk too about his work. If the bay is spotless in the middle of the day...thats a very good sign. If there is chaos...run. Expect to spend More than you think to get good sound....but its worth it. Good Luck...and if you have any questions let me know...i maybe be able to steer you in a good direction.

Derek Gilmer
11-22-2011, 9:54 PM
If the bay is spotless in the middle of the day...thats a very good sign.

You should never come near my shop or desk at work....Organized chaos is how my brain works best. Your other points are all spot on though. :)

If you want to get really involved check out winisd. It is a great sub modeling program. And plays into how you pick your amp. The RMS on a sub is nearly pointless in my opinion. What you want to know is how many watts of clean power you need to push the sub to get the sound levels at the frequencies you want with out pushing it past max excursion and ruining it. Staying below max is even better for distortion. The box you put it it has a lot to do with that. A 12" sub in a small sealed box filtered for only sound between 120 and 50 hz can take/will need more power than that same 12" sub in a large ported box tuned to 30hz before destroying itself.

curtis rosche
11-25-2011, 10:47 PM
What I am looking at Putting in is a set of Sony xplods. A Sony xplod headunit ( my current one is about dead. It's factory and scratches CDs ). And two ten inch Sony xPlod subs. Rated at 1100watts max and 300rms each. I am going to put some of my wood skills to use and build a ported box for them. The box will go in the trunk of my 2001 ford focus. When using them I will put the back seat down. I'm trying to find a decent amp to power them that isn't costly. I know that the more you pay the better the quality. Tim, I'm happy with the quality of the stock 6x9s in my front and rear doors, I just want a little more kick in the bass. I'm not sure if any of you have ever listened to a genre of music called "dubstep" but it can be quite catchy and the best parts are the "drops". The song goes along and builds some tension. And then large amount of base "drops". A good example would be the song "scary monsters and nice sprites" by Skrillex. It is played on a commercial on tv

Derek Gilmer
11-25-2011, 11:21 PM
I may be an audio snob.. but no, just no to sony xplods.

Do you know the hz range commonly used in dubstep? I checked wikipedia and they mention that it uses notes down to 20hz. If that is the case a sony xplod (or other cheap sub) is going to blow itself apart in a ported box with out a filter to protect it. It sounds like you are interested in the musical quality dubstep not just making your license plate rattle. In which case a good 12 in a ported box tuned to take your cabin gain into account may be better than two cheaper subs. Fi audio makes some nice subs. I'm using two of their IB18s in my home theater setup. If you can give me the dimensions of the box you can fit in your trunk and the hz range you want to play I can play with some modeling software to get you a good idea of what you need.

curtis rosche
11-26-2011, 12:23 AM
Derek, I know they aren't great, but I'm trying to do a budget setup. Right now I'm lookin at about 230$ for an amp and a headunit and the two 10s. If you know of a set up that's under $300 including headunit, please let me know. I'm kinda new to the speaker world, when you say the Sony xplods are cheap , how bad are they? One of my friends has a whole car set up with a combination of xplod and kicker and his sounds pretty good and he has his calculated to around 130db.

John Fabre
11-26-2011, 1:00 AM
Buy a good head unit first that's powered, make sure it will accept a amp and buy it later. You can always add more amps and subs (Rockford Fosgate), later add front and rear speakers, budget permitting.

Derek Gilmer
11-26-2011, 8:00 AM
Derek, I know they aren't great, but I'm trying to do a budget setup. Right now I'm lookin at about 230$ for an amp and a headunit and the two 10s. If you know of a set up that's under $300 including headunit, please let me know. I'm kinda new to the speaker world, when you say the Sony xplods are cheap , how bad are they? One of my friends has a whole car set up with a combination of xplod and kicker and his sounds pretty good and he has his calculated to around 130db.

A lot of this gets back to the frequency range question. I'm sure a sony xplod can hit 130 db in a small car. Maybe even more. But the distortion is most likely at extreme levels and the sub is filtered to not go below 60hz or something relatively high like that. Any pair of 10" subs in a ported box pushing 120 db are not going very deep into the bass.

If you can swing it an FI 15 in a sealed or small ported box will do great. It has a high efficiency so you can swing a smaller amp and still make good volume. And a sealed box will protect it on the low bass with out a filter (at most power levels) so you can skip a high pass filter. The cabin gain from a small car will really pick up down low so you get the best of both worlds. You aren't removing any bass from the songs and you aren't flogging the speaker to death like a 10 in a ported box would. It won't happen for under 300 though. The two xplods are what about $100 for two of them? This sub is $140 so not a huge step up in price. What amp and head unit are you using?

https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn154ed0dfafa99d4/shopdata/0050_Speakers/0045_X/product_overview.shopscript
(https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn154ed0dfafa99d4/shopdata/0050_Speakers/0045_X/product_overview.shopscript)
That said, if you are happy with your friends setup that is what really matters. Audio snobs like me can take a long walk off a short pier if you like what you hear :D. I just don't think you'll be happy long with the xplods. And their resale/upgradability are pretty low.

Jim O'Dell
11-26-2011, 9:32 AM
Another former stereo installer with bad ears here. :rolleyes: And I was religious about using hearing protection when I was using an air chisel for door speaker cut outs!!!! I really was! (this was back in the day when you had to make your own speaker holes, especially in pickups) But we don't wear those when listening to the music, do we? :p

I've got all Kenwood electronics in my van, and some of it pretty old. I have replaced the head unit a couple times over the years, but the 3 amps are all 25 years old! As is the EQ with the sub out. I'm running a small 15-20 watt/channel amp on my Kenwood 4" mids, 37/ on the Rockford/Fosgate 6"/1" separates, and 90/ on the two 15" subs, but since they are dual voice coil units run in parallel, each channel is an estimated 137. It doesn't rattle the license plates, but the mirrors bounce pleasingly. :cool: Nor is it a thump mobile. It has a nice pleasing low end. It would be hard to put a system together for what I have in mine, but I don't think you are going to get anything worthwhile in the 300 range for all you are looking at. So if you are ok with the current sound except for the bass reproduction, look into subs that add on to an existing system. They aren't great, but you might get a little better sound that what your money output will give you otherwise. And go listen to anything you buy...don't just see something and order it over the internet. You may be disappointed with what you end up with.

Oh, and don't worry about dropping the back seat down. If you have decent bass output, it won't matter...unless you are wanting to tickle the hair inside your ears! Jim.

curtis rosche
11-26-2011, 12:37 PM
Derek, the headunit i was looking at was the sony xplod head unit from walmart. they have a deal on a headunit and a ten inch sub to go with it for around 80$ and then $20 to get the second sub with it. i had just started looking into a amp when i posted on here. if i set up that sub that you posted the link to, how much is that gonna rattle my car? i understand it will have much better quality, but theres always a little fun in making the windows and mirrors rattle :rolleyes: and if i were to put the 15inch in, am i gonna need more power for it? as in a bigger battery to power it or anything like that?

Tim Morton
11-26-2011, 1:28 PM
Once i read "xplod" i kind of tuned out and a sadness appeared on my face....if thats your plan...stay with your factory set up and throw a cheap 10" bazooka tube in the trunk. Or better yet, just stay with your factory set up.

in my original post...i said stay away from anything with chrome on it...and i should have added "or has the word "xplod" on it.

Derek Gilmer
11-26-2011, 2:02 PM
Derek, the headunit i was looking at was the sony xplod head unit from walmart. they have a deal on a headunit and a ten inch sub to go with it for around 80$ and then $20 to get the second sub with it. i had just started looking into a amp when i posted on here. if i set up that sub that you posted the link to, how much is that gonna rattle my car? i understand it will have much better quality, but theres always a little fun in making the windows and mirrors rattle :rolleyes: and if i were to put the 15inch in, am i gonna need more power for it? as in a bigger battery to power it or anything like that?

That 15 with a good amp at around 400 watts is going to sound better and louder than the xplods can dream of. The 15 produces 92 db per watt at 1 meter from the sub. The xplods are 88db per watt at 1 meter. That may not sound like a big deal but it is a huge gain in sound quality and efficiency. I can't find complete t/s parameters for the xplods (which is usually a sign of a craptastic sub) but it has an xmax (distance the cone can travel before physical damage is likely) of 6.2 mm the fi has 18mm of travel. The xplod is physically incapable of making low notes at any good spl. For comparison this 5.5" mid woofer has more bass potential below 70hz than an xplod: http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=538&Cid=4a6b7d7626999f0eae437b350eb58ecf

curtis rosche
11-26-2011, 4:24 PM
Once i read "xplod" i kind of tuned out and a sadness appeared on my face....if thats your plan...stay with your factory set up and throw a cheap 10" bazooka tube in the trunk. Or better yet, just stay with your factory set up.

in my original post...i said stay away from anything with chrome on it...and i should have added "or has the word "xplod" on it.

sorry Tim, i didnt really know any better.

curtis rosche
11-26-2011, 4:37 PM
so if i get this headunit
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-CDXGT55UIW/14956452?_mm=TopOneGiantItem
and the 15 that Derek posted, i need to find a 400watt amp? any suggestions on an amp thats around 100$? would i need a capacitor to go with it?

Derek Gilmer
11-26-2011, 5:49 PM
so if i get this headunit
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sony-CDXGT55UIW/14956452?_mm=TopOneGiantItem
and the 15 that Derek posted, i need to find a 400watt amp? any suggestions on an amp thats around 100$? would i need a capacitor to go with it?

I'm really with Tim on saying you are better off saving a little coin and getting anything but xplod. Something like this head unit: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KDA535/JVC-Arsenal-KD-A535.html?tp=5684 has ipod connections and front/rear/sub preamp output for future growth. And this amp: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_777M1500/Sound-Ordnance-M-1500.html?tp=35834. All told it might be about $100 more with the sub than you were looking at. But the life span and quality will be much much more than 33% better.

curtis rosche
11-26-2011, 6:08 PM
ok. that looks good. i guess i will start off with just the headunit for right now, and save up some to get the sub and amp. whats your take on the discount websites for audio things? carstereoonline has some good loking prices, but ive heard that it runs the risk of cheap immitation knockoffs

curtis rosche
11-26-2011, 6:27 PM
would this headunit work as well? it has most of the same features, the one you linked too was listed as not being compatable with my car

Tim Morton
11-26-2011, 6:50 PM
would this headunit work as well? it has most of the same features, the one you linked too was listed as not being compatable with my car

stop shopping for car audio at wal-mart...its ALL crap...try sonicelectronix .com Or even better at least walk into a local car audio store...you might be surprised. They know walmart sells stuff cheap, so they are constantly looking for product they can put on the floor to help guys like you out.

Tim Morton
11-26-2011, 6:54 PM
what vehicle is this going in? A head unit may be the last thing you want to consider.

Derek Gilmer
11-26-2011, 8:40 PM
stop shopping for car audio at wal-mart...its ALL crap...try sonicelectronix .com Or even better at least walk into a local car audio store...you might be surprised. They know walmart sells stuff cheap, so they are constantly looking for product they can put on the floor to help guys like you out.

Giving local guys a shot is a good idea. But price/feature shop before you do it. The two local shops here are somewhere between con-artists and morons. The times I've gone in asking about stuff they didn't even know what t/s parameters were and thought monster cable was the only way to go. Curtis, if local shops to you are about like the ones here I'd call crutchfield. They have service and expertise that is top notch. And you can often find coupons online or get them to give a better price on the phone.

curtis rosche
11-26-2011, 11:30 PM
a 2001 ford focus.

curtis rosche
11-27-2011, 12:06 AM
so what im lookin at now is this
headunit

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33460_Kenwood-KDC-448U.html
amp
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33401_JVC-KS-AX3101D.html

speaker, 15 inch
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=154ed1c4a96790d/shopdata/0050_Speakers/0045_X/product_overview.shopscript

Tim Morton
11-27-2011, 6:32 AM
so what im lookin at now is this
headunit

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33460_Kenwood-KDC-448U.html
amp
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33401_JVC-KS-AX3101D.html

speaker, 15 inch
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=154ed1c4a96790d/shopdata/0050_Speakers/0045_X/product_overview.shopscript

Head unit...that seems like a good purchase.
amp...not so much....check this out instead http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_22643_Clarion-XH7110.html
driver..i have bought a buzillion subs...and in every situation i have looked at Fi, and have never bought one...i am not saying they are a bad driver...i am just not convinced they are the best bang for your buck driver.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_22187_Image-Dynamics-ID15-D4-V.3.html

or http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_19262_Polk-Audio-MM1540DVC.html

I have had a ton of ID subs and have never been disapointed...and i currently have the 12" version of this polk in my car now..and it is the sleeper sub of the decade...it totally pounds and i bought if from amazon for $90

curtis rosche
11-28-2011, 12:34 AM
Tim, have you seen any of the youtube videos of people with FI subs? search "15inch FI audio subs"
i think im gonna go with the sub, and the headunit. the amp you linked to was nice, but out of my budget.

Tim Morton
11-28-2011, 6:25 AM
good luck with that sub...i hope you are happy, and i also hope you have a ton of room to build a large box for it;)

Derek Gilmer
11-28-2011, 8:08 AM
good luck with that sub...i hope you are happy, and i also hope you have a ton of room to build a large box for it;)

It'll be pretty good with a smaller sealed box as well. Cabin gain in little focus will carry the low end stuff well.

curtis rosche
11-28-2011, 12:34 PM
should i go ported or sealed?

Derek Gilmer
11-28-2011, 1:49 PM
should i go ported or sealed?

How big of a box can you fit in your trunk?

curtis rosche
11-28-2011, 2:46 PM
i can fit a pretty large box, if i am limited buy the trunk opening, i will assemble it inside the trunk

curtis rosche
11-28-2011, 3:12 PM
would this sub be any better than the FI sub?
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8365_Kicker-CVR152-07CVR152.html

Greg Portland
11-28-2011, 7:22 PM
No, it would not be better, the ID model has greater displacement capability.

Greg Portland
11-28-2011, 7:29 PM
If you want to vibrate your car, stick a 15" or dual 12s in a small enclosure. That will cause a huge mid-bass hump & result in a lot of output to vibrate your mirrors. Sticking a 15" in a large enclosure will give you a smoother response & deeper bass but less output.

I suggest you read about what makes a good sub driver for car audio and how your driver & amp choice will dictate your enclosure design (or vice-versa).

Tim Morton
11-28-2011, 7:30 PM
stay with the fi...i think it will be fine. sent an email to them and ask about box size and ported vs sealed based on your expectations and power. My guess is they will say that it shold be ported...and in a 3 cuft box, and that you will need a sub sonic filter....so make sure that if you do choose ported that you buy an amp with a sub sonic filter...that JVC does not. you also need to pick a voice coil configuration....and it looks like you will want to go single 2 ohm, and just make sure the amp you buy is 2 ohm mono stable. The JVC says it is....real world testing may prove otherwise.

so i will change my recommendations....head unit /yes sub woofer / yes and amp...still NO.

PS...dont build a sub box inside your vehicle...thats lame and ghetto. you can build a 3 cuft ported box and fit it in the trunk if you measure carefully...of course if you went with my ID15 recomndation you could do 1 cuft sealed...LOL..j/k...stay with the fi. I was always looking at the fi Q which was alot more money and was never in stock...i don't know anythign about this new one, but i have read some good things since you brought it up.

curtis rosche
11-28-2011, 8:07 PM
i was lookin at the specs for the Fi audio x15, it says i need a dual 2 ohm amp. what doea that mean? i was a little confused about that

curtis rosche
11-28-2011, 9:26 PM
got kinda tired of clicking see more replies.

how do i wire the amp up to work for the dual 2 ohm speaker?

Tim Morton
11-28-2011, 9:28 PM
i was lookin at the specs for the Fi audio x15, it says i need a dual 2 ohm amp. what doea that mean? i was a little confused about that

If you look at the order page you will see there are 2 voice coil versions available...single 2 ohm, or single 4 ohm and you pic that based on what amplifier you plan on buying, or you buy the amplifier based on which voice coil config you choose. Kind of a chicken or the egg thing. But it matters..so you need to not make a mistake here.

as for your question...are you sure it says you need a dual 2 ohm amp? that makes no sense, and i think you might have read it wrong maybe? It is a single voice coil driver which means you have one + and one - connection to make from just one channel of an amplifier. This is generally fone with a mono sub amp, or a bridged 2 channel amp. These days with class D power being so cheap...most people will choose a mono class D subwoofer amp. And this is what you should choose....and single channel mono amp that is 2 ohm and 4 ohm stable. Then pick a sub that is either 2 ohm or 4 ohm, matching the power that the amp puts out with the required power of the subwoofer. In your case the X15 wants to see 400 watts....so you will buy am amp that puts out 400 watts RMS at either 2 or 4 ohms...and then match the voice coil of the sub to that amp. In your case being on such a small budget, you will most likely find an amp that is 400watts at 2ohm...so you would buy the 2ohm subwoofer...as pointed out in my previous post. There are trade-offs here....you will be running the amp hotter at 2 ohms and take the chance of it going into thermal shut down if the sub is going below 2ohms at frequencies you are playing.

Ben Rivenbark
11-28-2011, 9:30 PM
Sony Xplod subwoofers are a false economy: The sound quality is not very good by any means. I feel pretty confident that if you put a TRUE 2200 watt RMS amplifier on two sony Xplod subs you would have two things: way too much power for your needs and two broken subs. A great quality 600 watt amp would still be a bit much for those two subs, honestly. I would rather get one Alpine Type R than two sony xplod subwoofers any day. As far as amplifiers, quality is the first thing to look for like said before. If you want to save money, I'm a fan of used. I would rather buy good quality used items than new mediocre items.

For Dubstep with stock doorspeakers, it seems that audiophile quality isn't the utmost priority, you just want something in the low range that fills in what your stock speakers are missing.

You need several things: first, you don't want to tax the electrical system of your car by getting a monster amp and sub that would way overpower your factory door speakers. You need an efficient system.
A Class D amplifier is much more efficient than a class A amplifier, so basically look for a Mono (single channel) amplifier. You won't notice the difference at all. For an efficient sub, you can increase efficiency by either a higher sensitivity rating, larger box, and box type. A 15" sub is too muddy, 10's are great but a 12" woofer has about 45 percent more surface area.

So now you need: 12" subwoofer, mono amp. More affordable mono amps generally generate most power when encountering a 2 ohm load, so you either need a 2 ohm subwoofer or a subwoofer with dual 4 ohm voice coils. Dual voice coil won't make a difference in sound quality, it just gives different options for the matching up of amps to subwoofers. Price should be the same either way.

If you are running two quality subs, you'll need at least 4 gauge wire. This type of setup typically draws enough power that your headlights will dim each time the bass "hits," so I'd stick with one subwoofer, but maximize your volume capability by using a vented box. This should let you use 8 gauge wire, and this should be good for a 12 foot run with a 400 watt amp. That's pushing it a bit, but hopefully you won't be maxing out your amp and drawing so much current anyway. If you wan't two subs just because you're stuck on the idea of it, then run 4 gauge and a bigger amp but you'll need a capacitor to buffer your electrical system.

Some amplifiers have high level inputs so you can just run some speaker wire from the rear speakers to the amp to get the audio signal to the amp. If you get an amp with only low level inputs, then you can either run RCA's from a subwoofer output on your new head unit (I'm not a big fan of the low/mid level Sony's, though... Pioneer and Alpine or other higher quality) or you can get a high level input converter that converts the high level signal (rear speakers) to a RCA outlet.

I would want a head unit that had subwoofer level control; you might love all that bass with your dubstep, but when you go to listen to NPR or something the bass is overwhelming and annoying.

Another feather I would really want in a head unit would be a high pass filter for your door speakers. If they are fed a full range signal, then they will waste power trying to play frequencies which they are not capable of reproducing. A high pass filter will only let higher frequencies through that they can actually play, thus making overall sound quality better.

Recap:

Single channel Mono amplifier of reputable quality in the 350 - 400 watt range.
Single 2 ohm 12 inch subwoofer - you'll either need a single 2 ohm coil or dual 4 ohm voice coils. Either is fine.
Vented Single subwoofer box. Stuff some polyfill in the box to help with unwanted resonance as well as making the box think it's bigger.
8 gauge power/ground wire will do, 4 would be better
Head unit with sub rca outputs, sub level control, high pass filter

Alpine Type R is a great bang for the buck sub.
Used quality >> new mediocre

curtis rosche
11-28-2011, 9:33 PM
Ben, i have decided on getting a x 15 sub from Fi audio.
im now trying to figure out what amp i need to power the sub at dual 2 ohms

Ben Rivenbark
11-28-2011, 9:39 PM
got kinda tired of clicking see more replies.

how do i wire the amp up to work for the dual 2 ohm speaker?

You don't want a dual 2 ohm speaker for that amp. You want either a dual four, or a single two. The link you provided showed a single two. just hook the positive of the sub to the positive of the amp, and negative to negative.


The previous recommendation to call crutchfield is a great idea. Just tell them your budget and what you want to do and they will make highly appropriate recommendations. Top notch customer service.

curtis rosche
11-28-2011, 9:44 PM
i think i read it wrong. i guess i need some coffee

Tim Morton
11-28-2011, 10:09 PM
Ben, i have decided on getting a x 15 sub from Fi audio.
im now trying to figure out what amp i need to power the sub at dual 2 ohms

it is not a dual 2ohm sub...you can buy it in either a single 2ohm version or a single 4ohm verionm.

and you do not want to power it at dual 2ohm anything...did you read what i just wrote? I think you read it wrong.

But copy and paste it back here...so i can see what you are talking about....but you don't power a sub with dual 2ohm anything...you could power a dual 2ohm sub...and you can have a 2 channel amp outputting at 2ohm...but you can't power anything with dual 2ohm....its either written wrong or you are quoting it wrong.

curtis rosche
11-28-2011, 10:13 PM
yeah, i was reading things wrong. my bad. sorry about the confusion

Jim Matthews
11-29-2011, 7:14 AM
This (http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Basslink-200-Watt-Powered-Subwoofer/dp/B000063TJY) is what I used - and it's reversible. Not bad for less than $200.

Two things to note, follow the instructions for 12vDC installation, so that it powers on when signal is present.
Mine died prematurely, due to direct wiring (I used a cigarette lighter adapter, which provided dirty power).

Greg Portland
11-29-2011, 3:04 PM
I mentioned this earlier in the thread but it needs repeating if you're installing an amplifier:

- You will almost definitely need to upgrade the "big 3" wires under your hood (alt to batt, neg batt to engine, engine to chassis). If you don't do this then the probability of an annoying whine from your speakers is very high. This is just a few dollars in wire and terminations.
- Installing fuses at the battery, amp, and distribution blocks is critical if you don't want to burn your car down. The fuses need to be sized for your wire gauge (which should be sized for your amp/s). More info: http://www.bcae1.com/fuses.htm

You can buy amp wiring kits that should contain all the parts you need.

Mike Cruz
11-29-2011, 4:51 PM
Man, I wish I could hear what you guys are saying...but that ringing in my ears just muffles everthing. Anyway, Chris, go for it. Don't listen to old fogies that say do as I say not as I, well, did. We're just trying to keep you from experiencing the joys of music in a vehicle louder than at concerts. Who doesn't want that?

Ben Hatcher
11-29-2011, 4:58 PM
I'm with you, Mike. I had the loud stereo for about 2 years and probably lost 5% of my hearing because of it. Too bad wisdom is wasted on the old. I'd really love a do-over on that choice.

Tim Morton
11-29-2011, 5:42 PM
I mentioned this earlier in the thread but it needs repeating if you're installing an amplifier:

- You will almost definitely need to upgrade the "big 3" wires under your hood (alt to batt, neg batt to engine, engine to chassis). If you don't do this then the probability of an annoying whine from your speakers is very high.
.

this is 100% FALSE!!!!! Could not be MORE false.....

Mike Cruz
11-29-2011, 5:49 PM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand in THIS coooooorner, wearing the red trunks....

Tim Morton
11-29-2011, 5:56 PM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand in THIS coooooorner, wearing the red trunks....

it would be like mike tyson in the 80's...i would knock him out in the first round. But i look forward to his rebuttal :-)

curtis rosche
11-29-2011, 8:34 PM
Tim, why is it false?

also, should i gow ith a parted box or a sealed box?

Derek Gilmer
11-29-2011, 9:31 PM
Tim, why is it false?

also, should i gow ith a parted box or a sealed box?

Depends on the sq ft you can make a box with and what frequencies you want to hit.

Tim Morton
11-29-2011, 10:14 PM
Tim, why is it false?

also, should i gow ith a parted box or a sealed box?

its false because doing "the big 3" upgrade for a $150 amplifier is a huge waste of time and money. Maybe once you start getting into 1500 watts or more and you start really hammering on your electrical system it is something to consider doing, but not so you don't get alternator whine, but so that you can squeeze every bit of juice out of your cars electrical system. Same goes for power wiring...for any amp you will be buying 8 or 10 gauge wiring is plenty.

as for ported or sealed...that depends on what kind of bass sounds good to you....do you like that super tight snare drum crack? Or do you like it a little looser and louder? sealed will give you the tight snare drum sound, and ported will give you a louder and slightly looser and more powerful kick, but with a bigger box, and a need to be much more careful in your design and product selection.

curtis rosche
11-29-2011, 10:38 PM
any recommend calculators for a ported box?
what frequency should i tune to?

Derek Gilmer
11-29-2011, 11:06 PM
any recommend calculators for a ported box?
what frequency should i tune to?

WinISD pro (free download) for the calculator. The frequency depends on the lowest notes you expect in your music or the tune that gives you the flatest response. I doubt much in dubstep goes below 30hz though.

curtis rosche
11-29-2011, 11:17 PM
so i should tune it to 30?

Tim Morton
11-30-2011, 6:10 AM
so i should tune it to 30?

you should email scott at Fi and he will hook you up with box size and port tuning. Or google the sub you are choosing and read about other peoples boxes. Also you can go to 12volt .com i believe or google subwooger design calculators and there are tons of online calculators. 30 seems a little low for a car box...but i almost always build sealed boxes...so google will help you here.

Greg Portland
11-30-2011, 4:45 PM
this is 100% FALSE!!!!! Could not be MORE false.....I have a 250W amplifier in my car. Prior to upgrading these wires I had a very annoying whine. After upgrading the wires the whine went away. Your turn to rebut...

Greg Portland
11-30-2011, 4:46 PM
its false because doing "the big 3" upgrade for a $150 amplifier is a huge waste of time and money.Umm, we're talking about 4-5ft of 4g wire + terminations, i.e. < $20.

Mike Cruz
11-30-2011, 5:29 PM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand in THIS corner, wearing the black and gold trunks...

Greg Portland
11-30-2011, 6:44 PM
I'd prefer an educational conversation versus a pissing match...

Tim Morton
11-30-2011, 7:09 PM
I have a 250W amplifier in my car. Prior to upgrading these wires I had a very annoying whine. After upgrading the wires the whine went away. Your turn to rebut...

i would bet you had a ground loop, and it sounds like this fixed it, but i would guess you could have fixed it without upgrading the big 3.

Tim Morton
11-30-2011, 7:22 PM
I'd prefer an educational conversation versus a pissing match...

Your statement was 100% false based on the two things you said...

1. If you are installing an amp you almost MUST upgrade the big 3....thats false....i would wager that less than 5% of all audio installs involving amp installation also involve upgrading the big 3. So must is a ridiculous statement.

2. You then go on to state that not upgrading the big three is asking for "engine noise"...another 100% falsehood. You normally get engine noise from a ground loop....somethign that is fixable without touching any of the wires involved in the BIg 3 upgrade.

3. I am not 100% against upgrading the big 3 when it is needed, or just for fun ....but don't tell someone who is just getting started in doing his own installs that it MUST be done...that besides being confusing to him, is like i said...wrong.

4. the big 3 upgrade is done to improve the current flow to your amplifier....which has nothing to do with engine noise(although i guess it could break a ground loop and solve engine noise as a side effect)...and everything to do with maximizing the power potential to your speakers. The only time i would agree that it MUST be, or really i would say is SHOULD be done is after the installation of a high output alternator...

right???

Mike Cruz
11-30-2011, 7:34 PM
Okay, for fun, I was going to say, "DOWN goes Frazier, DOWN goes Frazier!" But that would sound like I thougth Tim won. And truth be known, I have no idea...

Tim Morton
11-30-2011, 7:39 PM
Okay, for fun, I was going to say, "DOWN goes Frazier, DOWN goes Frazier!" But that would sound like I thougth Tim won. And truth be known, I have no idea...

i feel pretty confident that he won't be able to answer the bell *LOL*

Here's some reading...i think i posted in that thread 10 years ago...


http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/312025/page/1

Derek Gilmer
11-30-2011, 9:59 PM
Okay, for fun, I was going to say, "DOWN goes Frazier, DOWN goes Frazier!" But that would sound like I thougth Tim won. And truth be known, I have no idea...

You are correct Tom won.

Mike Cruz
11-30-2011, 11:03 PM
You mean Tim?

Derek Gilmer
12-01-2011, 8:27 AM
You mean Tim?

Tim, tom. Pizza, vegetable.

They are all the same in congress' eyes.

:D

Mike Cruz
12-01-2011, 9:07 AM
You mean pizza isn't a veggie? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Say it ain't so! Take that back! La-la-la-la-la-la-la I can't hear you, I can't hear you, I'm not listening, I'm not listening....

brian c miller
12-05-2011, 10:19 PM
I didn't read the whole thread but here's my quick 2 cents.

There are some brands where you're paying for crappy speakers dressed up (sony), there are some that for the most part ear it (alpine, JL) and then some great speakers that not many people have heard of (focal).


Check out pars express for decent deal on drivers... read a few speaker (sound / acoustic) articles and build a simple sealed box the correct size for the driver.

Mike Cruz
12-05-2011, 10:55 PM
Brian, isn't that a little selfish? I mean, don't you think the box should be the correct size for EVERYONE inside the car...not just the driver? :D

Actually, very nice of you to actually address his post with a direct answer...

Jacob Nothstine
12-09-2011, 3:47 PM
Check out
http://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/FOCUS.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-kv0dRktT0Mj/p_158XSL104/Sony-Xplod-XS-L104P5B.html
I would build box's and keep them on the side of the truck. Put the port on top. With the sub you will not need to put the seat down to hear (feel) them, the bass will travel threw the seats.

My wife has a Focus, if it was mine to put a system in I would put a board from the back of the seats head rest to the hatch and put a 15" or 18" free air sub. Use the entire back as a box.

Derek Gilmer
12-09-2011, 4:34 PM
Check out
http://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/FOCUS.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-kv0dRktT0Mj/p_158XSL104/Sony-Xplod-XS-L104P5B.html
I would build box's and keep them on the side of the truck. Put the port on top. With the sub you will not need to put the seat down to hear (feel) them, the bass will travel threw the seats.

My wife has a Focus, if it was mine to put a system in I would put a board from the back of the seats head rest to the hatch and put a 15" or 18" free air sub. Use the entire back as a box.

Sony subs = crap

John A. Callaway
12-10-2011, 11:25 AM
I have a Toyota FJ Cruiser, and I have reworked that setup in there a few times. Here is what I have found matters. Sound deadening, and lots of it. I have close to 200 lbs of it in my vehicle. By far the most labor intensive, knuckle cutting mod you can make, but worth every penny. Secondly, select the best head unit you can afford, and install it CORRECTLY. Solder your connections, buy good quality RCA cables, and good quality speaker wire. Route everything properly to eliminate white noise being picked up by the wiring. LEARN how to properly dial in a amp , i.e. : input voltage.... it's not gain, and the dial is not a volume increaser for your amp. Set the amplifier up properly, and distortion wont destroy your subwoofer. Buy the most energy efficient amp you can for the money, unless you are going to upgrade your alternator and/or add extra batteries. Capacitors are a gimmick ( for the most part anyway ) If your amplifier cant get the power it needs, why bother buying it. It wont perform the way it was designed too. When it comes to amplifiers, do your homework. The internet is your friend. Dont waste money to buy something you will just replace later because it was a cheap product to begin with. ( I have a Alpine MRD-M1005 amp that is seven years old, and it works like it did the day I bought it ) There are a ton of choices out there and it can be very overwhelming. Buy nice mids and highs, and power them correctly. Again, waste money for a quick job and do it over and over, or save up, buy good stuff, install it once and jam out until you sell the car.

When it comes to enclosures, you are limited by the space you have, and by the sound you are trying to achieve. Some people like to just hear the loose, trunk rattling bass, some want the clean, tight bass notes without the decibel meter pegging continuous bass notes. You have to figure out what kind of sound you want, and direct your goals and purchases toward that end result. Personally, I think the Fi sub is probably a little too much for you to start out with. Those subs are known for handling massive amounts of power, and honestly, the amps you are looking at are not going to do that sub any justice. Steve Meade made those subs very famous, and he also pushed 4 18 inch subs with about 36,000 watts of power or some crazy number ( I am/was a member of his forums for years, ... a great website for audio info.. ) and the results spoke for themselves. Fi subs are a serious woofer, no question. But be prepared to pay the price, and be prepared to feed them lots of power.

I run a very mild setup , and I am very pleased with it. I have a Alpine head unit, the 9887, (SIRIUS sat radio, full ipod integration) which uses the Imprint tuning system ( which is FANTASTIC ) , the head unit sends signals to two separate amps, a Sundown 4x100 for my two JL Audio component sets. I use the C5 three way 6.5" component set in the front doors and dash, and the C5 two way 6.5" component set just behind the front seats. ( I know guys, components in the rear are unnecessary, but the deal was too good to pass up ) These sets all have separate crossover boxes that have to be mounted somewhere. The potential for "noise floor" is great, so mounting location is important. I also have that Alpine 1000 watt amp powering two Alpine Type-R 12 inch subs. They are not the most expensive, they are not the cheapest, but they do handle the power well, and I dont try to push them beyond their limits. I have had one sub fail on me in 4 years. The enclosure I have was designed by a guy in Arizona , the biggest audio nerd I know of, and the results speak for themselves. My box is essentially a big horn, and the "port" looks a little funny, because it is a big square, almost the size of a sub woofer..... But it sounds the way I want it, and If I choose to, I can make you look for a set of ear plugs. The enclosure literally takes up all usable space in the cargo area. I have two powermaster batteries mounted in the rear as well, to supplement the electrical system. Luckily, the FJ Cruiser does not come with a super small alternator as far as out put goes. I can run the system at full tilt with out dimming headlights ( while driving, at idle it still dimms a little on the low notes ) I ran good power wire from the front to the back, I have also done the " BIG 3 " , and grounded everything very well. There is ZERO noise in my setup, and thanks to the imprint, the IASCA set up disc sounds great as for as my soundstage goes.

Oh, and the Second Skin Damplifier Pro, the Luxury Liner, and the roll on liquid liner. I spent over two thousand dollars just on sound deadening and noise insulation. The roof, the floor, the doors, the cabin body panels, everything is covered behind the interior.

This stuff is just as addictive as woodworking, and just as expensive. Save your money, dont rush into anything, and do your homework.

Alpine, good stuff. Great Head units, mid range subwoofers, above average speakers.
Kenwood. Buy the Excelon Line only, and be prepared to learn how to tune and use the EQ system.
JL audio. Great speakers, I am not sold on the subwoofers though. Great amps, but pricey
RockFord fosgate, GREAT , super efficent amps, decent speakers, subwoofers arent to popular.
Clarion, I am not super impressed with them, but some people love them. ( Do your research)
Pioneer, they have great products, and the also have crappy products. ( Do your research )
Sundown Audio. I love the amplifier I have, and I will buy again.
DC audio. Some of the baddest subs out there today
Fi , see above.
Kicker. Good mid range brand, with a few all star products here and there ( although I think they are not what they used to be )
Sony. CRAP.
JVC. Just above Sony.

Check out the Steve meade forums, and also PWKdesigns.com the knowledge on these two sites is priceless.

Mike Heidrick
12-10-2011, 11:55 PM
Car audio was my passion before woodworking. SLAP (Sound, looks, Audio, Performance) Stock 161-260 was my class of choice. Had a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Alpine 7998 with fiber to a CHA-S624 changer, US Amps 4300X for the mids highs, A/D/S 346is components, DD (Digital Designs - their subs are SOOOO nice) 6 1/2" mids in the rear doors, DD 9512Es subs (Shockers before that - they were hand made by a competitor LOL and Rocked the Db lanes), two PHD2 earthquake sub amps - one per sub (4ohm ea daily driving and wired 1 ohm in the lanes), two stinger SP1700 amp batts in the amp rack and a yellowtop under the hood, an Ohio generator 290 amp alternator, stinger everything in platnium and purple - 0ga from the batt back, I designed my own Bob Gately made 6 cube 1" Plexi box with mirrors on the said and back and 8ga braided power wire for speaker wire to biwireable terminals and a tuneable port for daily driving and when removed for my rez frequency while competeing in the lane - all completely stock leagal as far as rules - all seats worked, below windo lines, etc. I took 5th place at SLAP nationals in 2003 in Atlant GA. Brownbread and dynomat everywhere. LOL. My Car audio days were awesome. Spent a LOT of time traveling for shows.

Absoluetly nothing in my truck anymore. I have learned to appreciate a stock setup LOL.

My Jeep is still on car domain LOL.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/134477/1998-jeep-grand-cherokee

John Fabre
12-11-2011, 2:38 AM
Car audio was my passion before woodworking. SLAP (Sound, looks, Audio, Performance) Stock 161-260 was my class of choice. Had a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Alpine 7998 with fiber to a CHA-S624 changer, US Amps 4300X for the mids highs, A/D/S 346is components, DD (Digital Designs - their subs are SOOOO nice) 6 1/2" mids in the rear doors, DD 9512Es subs (Shockers before that - they were hand made by a competitor LOL and Rocked the Db lanes), two PHD2 earthquake sub amps - one per sub (4ohm ea daily driving and wired 1 ohm in the lanes), two stinger SP1700 amp batts in the amp rack and a yellowtop under the hood, an Ohio generator 290 amp alternator, stinger everything in platnium and purple - 0ga from the batt back, I designed my own Bob Gately made 6 cube 1" Plexi box with mirrors on the said and back and 8ga braided power wire for speaker wire to biwireable terminals and a tuneable port for daily driving and when removed for my rez frequency while competeing in the lane - all completely stock leagal as far as rules - all seats worked, below windo lines, etc. I took 5th place at SLAP nationals in 2003 in Atlant GA. Brownbread and dynomat everywhere. LOL. My Car audio days were awesome. Spent a LOT of time traveling for shows.

Absoluetly nothing in my truck anymore. I have learned to appreciate a stock setup LOL.

My Jeep is still on car domain LOL.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/134477/1998-jeep-grand-cherokee
This takes me back in the day (80's), entering many car stereo contests, winning 1st and 2nd places. Used four pairs of A/D/S mids, four RockFord Fosgate subs and six amps in a new 1984 Honda CRX. I installed every thing myself, didn't have all that fancy wiring.

Derek Gilmer
12-11-2011, 11:14 AM
Personally, I think the Fi sub is probably a little too much for you to start out with. Those subs are known for handling massive amounts of power, and honestly, the amps you are looking at are not going to do that sub any justice. Steve Meade made those subs very famous, and he also pushed 4 18 inch subs with about 36,000 watts of power or some crazy number ( I am/was a member of his forums for years, ... a great website for audio info.. ) and the results spoke for themselves. Fi subs are a serious woofer, no question. But be prepared to pay the price, and be prepared to feed them lots of power.

Some of the fi subs are huge power sucking beasts. The x series is much more sane. They are pretty high efficiency and good excursion handling down to normal car audio freqs. I wouldn't want want for a home sub where I'd shoot for 15hz but from 30hz up they are very nice.

curtis rosche
12-12-2011, 12:13 AM
i found a alpine mrp-500 mono amp on craigslist for a really good price. any way of telling how good it is before buying, or just stay away from craigslist?

Derek Gilmer
12-12-2011, 9:49 AM
i found a alpine mrp-500 mono amp on craigslist for a really good price. any way of telling how good it is before buying, or just stay away from craigslist?

Does whoever is selling it have it hooked up or have a system you can plug it into? Alpine in general is good stuff.

curtis rosche
12-12-2011, 12:08 PM
they dont have it hooked up, but they are selling a couple other good looking equipment too.

Derek Gilmer
12-12-2011, 12:19 PM
they dont have it hooked up, but they are selling a couple other good looking equipment too.

Will they take paypal for buyer protection? Or if you have other friends with subs see if they'll let you plug it in their setup and test it. If the seller agrees to let you do that I doubt they are trying to scam you.

curtis rosche
12-12-2011, 2:20 PM
ok, sounds like a good idea. i saw the amp and for new they are $200, and the seller wants $100, so i figured it would be a good deal if it works right

Ben Hatcher
12-12-2011, 3:25 PM
I'd check the condition of anything I bought on CL not just to verify that it works, but that is isn't stolen. If the mounts are bent, wires are cut, or it is otherwise scratched up, I'd pass.

The worst part about expensive stereo upgrades is the ease with which they are stolen. I offer the following, obvious advice: Don't brag about what you have, try to keep as much of the factory look as possible, conceal what can be hidden, and don't play it too loudly near where you park. I failed to follow the first rule, boasted to the wrong person about my system, and it was stolen less than a week later. The windows cost more to replace than what they stole.

curtis rosche
12-12-2011, 3:37 PM
Ben, all my friends already said that. dont both putting any brand stickers on the car as well. im putting the sub in the trunk and then the only visible upgrade is the headunit. anyone who knows im doing the upgrade is either a friend, or knows better than to mess with my stuff. except for any foolish creekers, but i would hope that no one on this forum would ever do such a thing.

curtis rosche
12-12-2011, 3:40 PM
whats the best material to build a box from? ive seen some really nice plxi boxes but they cost an arm and leg, ive seen the partical borad, any other materials? i have a bunch of 3/4 plywood layin around, can i use that?

Derek Gilmer
12-12-2011, 3:55 PM
whats the best material to build a box from? ive seen some really nice plxi boxes but they cost an arm and leg, ive seen the partical borad, any other materials? i have a bunch of 3/4 plywood layin around, can i use that?

I'd say mdf is best. If you use 3/4 plywood you'll need more bracing to prevent flexing.

curtis rosche
12-12-2011, 3:56 PM
what thickness?

Ben Hatcher
12-12-2011, 3:57 PM
3/4" works well.

Jason Adkins
12-13-2011, 9:06 AM
WOW, A thread that I can contribute to. Im a rookie woodworker, but have great car audio knowledge. 3/4 MDF is the material of choice for sub boxes. Im looking at an Fi x sub right now. its a great entry level sub. You could also step up to a Fi BTL or Fi Q. There are some great components speaker sets out there for around $150. anything more than that you are reaching the point of diminishing returns in a loud car environment. Leave it looking stock and as stated, no "steal me" stickers. One thing Im a big beleiver in is using a single amp for the whole system. I like 5 channel amps because the simplicity of setup, one power and ground run, all RCA cables and speaker cables run to the same place. They just make the installation SO much easier

Jason Adkins
12-13-2011, 9:09 AM
I'd check the condition of anything I bought on CL not just to verify that it works, but that is isn't stolen. If the mounts are bent, wires are cut, or it is otherwise scratched up, I'd pass. It absolutely amazes me how many amps you see for sale with 3 or 4 inches of wire sticking off the terminals. Im not gonna buy equipment from someone who is too lazy to loosen 5 or 6 screws instead of cutting the wires. I even see this in pawn shops, where you think they would do it just so people dont assume its stolen

curtis rosche
12-14-2011, 4:39 PM
and specifics on box layout? the norm seems to be with port and sub facing either back of the trunk or the front. but i was told by someone else to put the port facing the back of the car, and the sub on top. the reasoning was that the sound from the sub would go up and sound off the rear windsheild and the port would bounce off the trunk. any truth to this?

curtis rosche
12-14-2011, 4:45 PM
also, ive been looking at some other subs.
either the 15 inch from dd audio
http://www.ddaudio.com/mobile-audio/woofers/500-series.aspx
of from FI
https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=154ee7a9d927d1b/shopdata/0050_Speakers/0045_X/product_overview.shopscript

they are the same price, one is 100 watts less, but will one sound better or be that much louder than the other?

Tim Morton
12-15-2011, 9:02 PM
I'd say mdf is best. If you use 3/4 plywood you'll need more bracing to prevent flexing.

i find that baltic birch plywood is actually stiffer than MDF, and is MUCH lighter than MDF and is the perfect choice for building a box in a trunk. A bit more expensive, but you won't be using much of it.

Tim Morton
12-15-2011, 9:03 PM
and specifics on box layout? the norm seems to be with port and sub facing either back of the trunk or the front. but i was told by someone else to put the port facing the back of the car, and the sub on top. the reasoning was that the sound from the sub would go up and sound off the rear windsheild and the port would bounce off the trunk. any truth to this?

If only it was that easy...LOL. Its not....

Ben Hatcher
12-16-2011, 9:09 AM
Back when I was young and dumb I had a 4th order bandpass box which I ported into the cabin. The advantage was tighter base, better power handling, less noise outside the vehicle, fewer rattles, etc. There are plenty of resources out there for how to diy your own sub enclosure.

Bill Wyko
12-20-2011, 5:22 PM
Curtis, give me a call at 520-624-2000. I've been 7 time installer of the year and hold multiple world records in car audio competitions. Check out www.tucsoncaraudio.net (http://www.tucsoncaraudio.net) for a few samples of my work. I'll point you in the right direction and give you great deals on equipment. I've owned and founded Audio 2000 20+ years ago. Here's a shot of my old company Excursion and a couple other pics.
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2109/11908737/23572979/393302164.jpg

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2109/11908737/23544034/392803976.jpg


http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2109/11908737/23544034/392803971.jpg


http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL2109/11908737/23159128/386147848.jpg

curtis rosche
12-20-2011, 11:04 PM
geez Bill, is there anything you dont make or do?

curtis rosche
12-31-2011, 11:38 AM
i just picked up an alpine v12 mrd m605 amp, and the guy threw in a alpine type r 12 inch sub. should i just run with this sub, or will i be happier with the Fi audio 15 inch sub?