Disaster with the Gray Lady!

[Kathy Marshall]

No it's not me! It's my Delta 46-613 lathe :mad:. I had just finished the final cut cleaning up the foot of a small bowl. I went to lower the speed to start sanding and the lathe just stopped and won't start again. I can hear a click in the power panel? when I hit the start and stop buttons. I don't hear the click when the power cord is disconnected. I took the cover off the power panel and everything looks fine (no burned wires, nothing disconnected), took apart the control box (start/stop) and everything appears normal. Nothing was hot, no smoke, nothing flying apart, I'm at a loss.
Any clues what might be wrong or what to check next?

Thanks!

[Doug W Swanson]

Is there a reset button somewhere? Maybe on the motor?

[Steve bellinger]

Is there a reset button somewhere? Maybe on the motor?my thoughts also.

[Kathy Marshall]

Just went out and looked, nothing on the motor that I could see or feel.
Could the motor itself have just crapped out?

[Curt Fuller]

I'm not very familiar with that lathe, but if it's like a lot of older lathes that are 220V it uses what I think is called a mag starter? The motor is 220V but the power to the switch is 110V. My Oliver has that setup and on a couple occasions the starter has gotten dust in it that prevents it from making contact when you hit the start button. See if it has a small electrical box near the motor that you can open up. When you hit the start button power goes to the starter and it engages the 220V to the motor. If you hear it trying to click in that box that might be the problem. I know this is all electronics jibberish because I don't know squat about electronics but what I'm trying to say is if you take an air hose and blow everything out it might fix it.

[Nate Davey]

As you were adjusting the speed when your lathe quit, it might be the speed control potentiometer. Do you have an volt/ohm meter?

[Kathy Marshall]

As you were adjusting the speed when your lathe quit, it might be the speed control potentiometer. Do you have an volt/ohm meter?
I don't have a volt/ohm meter, but this has a reeves drive, not electronic variable speed, so would a speed control potentiometer still apply?

[David DeCristoforo]

What Curt said. Open up all of the electrical boxes and blow out everything. Get some contact cleaner and hit everything you can get to. Mine does this all the time. The old switches and relays are probably crudded up and sometimes, I have to hit my start button several times to get it to go. That's when I know it's time to clean them out again. Sooner or later I will have to abandon the old electricals and get a new starter/switch...

[Nate Davey]

Nope. Guess I'm fresh out of ideas.


I don't have a volt/ohm meter, but this has a reeves drive, not electronic variable speed, so would a speed control potentiometer still apply?

[Bernie Weishapl]

I would blow out the on/off switch. I had that happen on mine. Blew it out and all was good. I did get another switch and changed it out anyway as this one was getting old and had been turned on/off I don't know how many times.

[Joe Watson]

wow... this poor woman is probably going into convolutions not being able to turn a bowl.... can someone please help her out !!!

If you do blow it out with air, you might want to watch out for the presser, i would keep it low, 10lbs or so.

Best of luck, hope it ends well.

_

[Jeff Fagen]

I have a Delta 46-460 and I have to blow out the switch with compressed air all the time.I have also had the reset pop and had to go looking for it.

[Kathy Marshall]

I took apart the switch and blew it out even though it seemed very clean. Still no go. I did not blow out the power box since it was very well sealed and was in pristine condition (not a speck of dust). Since I'm hearing the click in the power box, I don't think the problem is the switch. I may be wrong, but the click tells me a signal is getting from the switch to power box/relay or whatever. So I'm thinking the problem is somewhere between the power box and the motor. There is one cover on the motor that I haven't opened up yet, it's probably the starter. Tomorrow I'll see if I can hear any clicks in the starter and also open it up and blow it out.
If it still isn't working, I'm assuming I'll need to take out the motor and have it tested :mad:.

[Roger Chandler]

Kathy,

Maybe its time for an upgrade.............

[Paul Williams]

Your logic is OK, but I think you just skipped over the problem. If you hear the click in the power box you can not assume that it is OK and the problem is down stream from the box. I would guess that what you are hearing is a starter relay and it may have a dirty or bad contact. You either need a way to check that current is leaving the box and getting to the motor, or you need to open the box and. heck the condition of the relay.

[Kathy Marshall]

Kathy,

Maybe its time for an upgrade.............
Unfortunately an upgrade is not in the budget, and this is basically a new machine. My dad bought it new in 2001 and only used it a little before he got sick, it then sat in his garage for 8 years before I was able to bring it home. So while I have put plenty of hours on it, it's basically the equivalent of a 1 or 2 year old machine. Just hope I can get it running by Wednesday, got a 4 day weekend for Thanksgiving and plans for turning!

[Roger Chandler]

I sure hope so too, Kathy..........I did not realize the lathe had as little use as you mentioned........I thought it was an older machine. I know what it is like having a lathe down and in my case no prospects of being able to fix it.........that is why I had to purchase a new one.

Burned my cookies for sure!

[Russell Neyman]

Somewhere here is a long, involved exchange regarding a similar situation my friend and I had on our two lathes, one going down only a week after the other. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE TENACITY OF FINE DUST! Even if you have blown out the switches and contacts, a small piece of it can "bake" between the contact points. In my case, I took everything apart, blew it out, reassembled, and still noting. Took the motor in to Red's Electric, and they said the motor was good. I brought it back, re-cleaned everything (this time using an exacto blade and contact cleaner) and it worked. So, even when I was sure I cleared out all the boogers that were messing up the circuits, I hadn't.

Also, be aware that there is sometimes a centrifugal cutout inside the motor that bypasses the start-up circuit, so clean that too.

[Gary Max]

This ain't going to help a darn bit but replacing motors is kinda common. I have one in the shop right now getting a new set of bearings installed. If you don't get it running this morning just pull it and take it to a shop.

[Josh Bowman]

Kathy,
I wouldn't replace anything until I trouble shot the magnetic switch/contactor. These are heavy duty switches that take a lot of arcing. You push a button that has low current going through it and it operates a coil that magnetically closes contacts that are high current. Often the arcing from opening and closing, causes these contacts to loose the ability for current to flow. They then either have to be replaced or filed clean. If you choose to look in the contactors box, unplug the lathe. Look for burnt metal contacts.
Wish I lived closer, bypassing the contactor is not a big deal and it would allow us to see if the motor is the cause or the contactor.
Here's a link to some magnetic switch 101 stuff: http://www.pmcwood.com/pmc_electrical.php

[John Keeton]

Kathy, the absence of smoke or smell seems to vote in favor of something very simple - and, not the motor. Just my thoughts. I still think it is a contact issue. You go through a BUNCH of wood. I turn FAR less than you, and I have already had a similar issue with my 1642 - less than 3 months after getting it. It was the switch/relay contacts.

[Joe Pfeifer]

I had a similar issue with a motor when the capacitor burned out. Everything was getting power but the motor wouldn't start until I spun it by hand. Turn it on and give the hand wheel a spin.

[Doug Herzberg]

There is one cover on the motor that I haven't opened up yet, it's probably the starter. Tomorrow I'll see if I can hear any clicks in the starter and also open it up and blow it out.
If it still isn't working, I'm assuming I'll need to take out the motor and have it tested :mad:.

Kathy, I want to urge a little caution. We don't want to lose you. I don't think you will see much inside the motor cover, but one thing you can do is see if power is getting to the motor when the switch is on. You need some kind of tester, though. You can pick up a simple little neon light with two leads in the electrical department at any big box or hardware store for less than $5. Touch one end to a known ground, and the other to the terminal you want to test. If it lights up, you have power. A 220v motor can have as few as two wires coming from the power box and each would be 110v. It would be more common in a modern device to have at least one ground wire, but really old machines like my Delta TS have only the two power lines (count the prongs on the plug that goes into the wall, only two on a 220v device means no ground).

A cheap volt/ohm meter can tell you a little more, like how many volts are getting to the motor, and whether a wire is broken. Under $10 at HF, a little more elsewhere.

Whatever you do, make sure you are not the connection between the live wire and the ground! Wear rubber soled shoes and don't touch any metal parts of the lathe with one hand (or any body part) while the other is doing the testing.

If your motor is getting 110v in each terminal, then it's probably the motor. Look for a reset switch, as others have advised. Some motors have thermal overrides that reset themselves after the motor cools down, but it's been long enough that it's probably not that. It could also be a capacitor if your motor has one (look for a lump on the side of the motor, much cheaper than a motor to replace). Capacitors store high voltage, so don't mess with them - let a motor shop do it.

If one or both of the line (power) terminals on the motor has no power, look further "upstream." Test the leads coming out of the switch in the control panel, the leads coming into the control panel from the wall plug, the plug itself (I am assuming the outlet has power, i.e., the breaker hasn't tripped.

If you have to have the motor tested, look for gray hair behind the counter. Motor shops used to repair motors, now they mostly sell new ones.

Is the click you are hearing normal or new since the problem arose? If the switch is only 110 volts (2 wires), there may be a relay to switch the power supply to the motor. Relays often make clicking sounds. Another place to test.

Hope I'm not insulting you, but please be careful. I'm no electrician, but I've been shocked a few times, so take this for what it's worth.

[Mike Cruz]

Kathy, if you didn't see any smoke, I would suspect that your motor still has its factory installed smoke in it, and is fine. Never want to let that smoke out...it is vital to its operation...

My vote is for a tiny bit of dust on a contact, or a wire that worked its way loose.