George Wilson- question, slightly OT

[seth lowden]

Hello George and everyone,

I remember a post a while ago where you mentioned a friend who would travel around teaching people to scrape their table saw tops flat. Could you fill us in on the person, and the concept? I would like to know more about it, and flatten a couple machine tops like my old Unisaw. I know this is not primarily a hand tool topic, but I think some of the concepts could be applied to flattening planes, or maybe some other applications. I would at least like to start the thread here.

Thanks for all the information and inspiration!

[David Weaver]

I'm not george, but I will speak to scraping cast iron planes because I have done it.

For practical purposes, a user who wants to flatten a large plane by scraping, there is more advantage to doing everything you would do with scraping (marking the high spots, etc), except skip the scraping and instead make a 2x2x3 or whatever size you want block of hardwood and affix coarse paper on the order of 60 grit to it.

You can flatten the bottom of a large plane much faster doing that than you can scraping or lapping, and you can do it with excellent accuracy. To scrape a fair bit of cast (if you have a long plane that's significantly out of whack) is very hard physical work and you have a very high chance of chipping metal in places where you don't want to.

That's my bit on the plane stuff. I'll avoid the machines because I don't know anything about making them perfect, and I know george restored metal lathes, which means he knows a LOT about scraping cast very accurately.

[Bruce Page]

Seth, there is a good article on flattening table surfaces at vintagemachinery [dot] org. do a Google search of: Flattening Cast Iron Tops by Planing, Grinding or Scraping
I have never flattened a table surface but I have flaked a few. Flattening a surface is not an easy process and is a skill that is acquired, usually taught by a skilled machine rebuilder. I’m not saying it couldn’t be done but there are better options.

I attached a picture (sorry about the poor quality) of a Sip 1-H Jig Borer that I rebuilt and flaked in my garage – before I filled up the garage with woodworking stuff! :rolleyes:

[David Weaver]

..but there are better options...



Like finding a machine shop that's got a blanchard grinder and reasonable prices.

[george wilson]

I cannot remember posting such a topic. Also,I can't see how it would be worthwhile money wise to travel around teaching how to flatten saw table tops. Are you sure it was me??????

True,woodworking machines used to be Blanchard ground,and that is likely your best option. The new saws,like the Saw Stop,are ground with WIDE wheels that are wide enough to grind everything between the miter gauge slots in one continuous grind. A much nicer,more advanced way to grind. You won't get that,though.

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Seth,

Are you sure you understand exactly what it is you are suggesting?

I just did a scraping course a few weeks back, and over 2 days, managed to scrape 4 sides of a 2-4-6 block, a bit faster with the biax over hand scraping, but still scraping a table saw table flat is a crazy undertaking.. Just the spotting would be an exercise in itself, and you would have to reckon on doing that many many times.. maybe a year of patient part time work.. (well that's how long I would take)..

If you are serious and maybe you are restoring a valuable antique, I'd forget scraping and find someone with a big surface grinder.

Flaking is for oil retention on ways and sliding surfaces, frosting is a purely decorative effect.

Regards
Ray

Edit: If on the other hand you just want to learn scraping, Rich King runs courses in the US, and I think Forrest Addy might still be running courses... Oh, and Michael Morgan has a book and DVD.. You might want to get a copy of Connelly as well.

[Ray Gardiner]

Following on from previous post, here are some links

The bible on machine tool reconditioning http://www.machinetoolpublications.com/
Michael Morgan's dvd and book http://www.machinerepair.com/
Rich King's web site with scraping course information. http://handscraping.com/

Regards
Ray

[Bruce Page]

Forrest Addy, I haven't heard that name in years! A very knowledgeable fellow.

[Trevor Walsh]

Forrest Addy, I haven't heard that name in years! A very knowledgeable fellow.


And that's twice in as many days that his name's showed up.

[Bruce Haugen]

Forrest Addy, I haven't heard that name in years! A very knowledgeable fellow.

Forrest Addy hangs out on the machinist forums, mostly. He chimes in often on Home Shop Machinist, as does George Wilson.

[george wilson]

Forrest Addy hangs out on the machinist forums, mostly. He chimes in often on Home Shop Machinist, as does George Wilson.
The Practical Machinist Forum is a better place to find Forrest Addy.

[Bruce Page]

Forrest also hung out at The Oak woodworking forum before it folded. I had several discussions with him on machining. He is very knowledgeable on all aspects of the trade.

[seth lowden]

Hello All; did not mean to abandon my own thread. George, I must have been wrong about what I remembered. I would have to say it sounded like an interesting idea that did not make immediate sense. My table saw is a bit out of flat, but not enough to worry a lot about. I would consider having my jointer tables ground, but I never use it. I was also curious about scraping as it pertains to planes. I may also be remembering incorrectly Stephen Thomas (on the long defunct Badger Pond) discussing scraping the bottoms of infill planes. I don't feel the need to have flat planes, but the concept is interesting to me...

[Joe Rogers]

Stephen scrapes his infill planes...I have held a few and they are FLAT. He also will show up at Practical Machinist now and then.
Joe

[george wilson]

I have had a lot of contact with Stephen Thomas lately. I sold him a metal cutting Skil type saw after I had used it. Chris Vesper was here while I was messed up with my knee trouble. He sawed up my 1/2" bronze plate for me. Then,I had no further use for the saw. Stephen had been waiting for me to buy it and use it.

[David Weaver]

George - did you make a 4 foot long and 1 foot wide infill plane with that bronze plate yet? You could stuff it with a tree trunk.

[george wilson]

I'm thinking about making a solid bronze shooting plane outfit somewhat like the Stanley,only more style.