Can this be done? Method/technique for sawing

[Kent A Bathurst]

A bit off the wall, but you know me...no surprise on that part. I have come up with a few ideas on how to go about what I want to do. Here's one for which that I'd be interested in getting some input ["whaddre you, nuts?" is a legitimate comment].

I am making a garden gate, out of WRC, that will have a "circle" in it. The circle is ~42" OD and ~35" ID. Cross-section is about 3-1/2" x 3-1/2".

I would layup/glue up the entire thing, using 3 or 4 layers. Rough cut then route with template to finish the inner and outer diameters. Then it gets cool:

I want to take this circle, and slice off about 1", so I have 2 circles. Lattice work will be inset into the thicker section, and then the thin section glued back on.

Can I do this successfully and live to tell about it: make an accessory tall fence and/or fixture of some type that will mount to the TS rip fence, and then move the circle into the blade and rotate it to get a cut all the way around? Seems to me to be nothing more than a circular dado cut, but using a single blade.

My 10" TS blade won't make it all the way through, of course, but I will have a kerf that will function great as an accurate guide for my worm-drive bayonet saw to finish the cut.

[John A langley]

Kent. Yes you can. The liability statement that I recommend that you make two separate circles. If you do it the way you suggest make sure your auxiliary fence is solid and but V blocks front and back so the circle has something to ride in and make multiple cuts.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Ah-HA! Hadn't thought of that. Makes perfect sense. One of those "dope-slap to the head" moments at this end - I don't have to make one continuous cut - I just have to get a kerf in there all the way around.

If I make 2 separate circles, one of them [the thin side] would have to be laid up from 1/2" stock so I can offset the seams where the boards meet. That is one of my other options.

Your liability disclaimer is duly noted. :D

EDIT: I just stopped and looked at who I was talking to....How you been, John? Haven't heard from you in a while. Life still treating you good in the big city? We haven't been down in your neck of the prairies in a long time. The last 2 KS residents of my Dad's generation passed away in 2010....long sad trips to Wichita and Allen. May be by your place someday - you never know.

[Floyd Mah]

Sounds like an interesting project. It doesn't make sense to me to do a glue-up and then to cut it apart after forming the circle. You could easily glue up the two halves, use a template to route the circles and then proceed as you have indicated. The router templates can either be semicircles or even quarters. The depth of the cut would be just within the reach of a long router bit. If you intend to cut a finished circle on your table saw, you are erecting something like a siege machine, with questionable rigidity that wouldn't even be capable of completing the cut. If I felt compelled to start with the circle first for some strange reason, it would seem more practical to attack it with a chain saw (which I don't have much experience using) or a lumberjack's saw since you are essentially starting with an object the size of a tree trunk.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I have seen this on several TV shows. Generally you need either rollers or feather boards to hold the stock both down to the table and against the fence.

[Jerry Bruette]

Could you use a biscuit slot cutter in your router? Might not be as exciting as doing it on the tablesaw but you wuldn't have to worry about that disclaimer.:)

Jerry

[johnny means]

Why would you want to give yourself the headache of ripping a wagon wheel in half only to glue it back together again? What type of joinery will you be using? What will the ripping of the wheel do to your joinery?

I agree "whaddre you, nuts?" is a legitimate comment, that is unless you subscribe to the Rube Goldberg philosophy.

Personally, I would make two circles, using the first as a template for the second.

Or you could just make the one thicker circle with a slot routed on the inside, then just put the lattice in. Only the center piece of lattice would be a problem, the rest would be shorter than the diameter of your circle and would easily fit in, then slide into place. The center slats could then slide in through a small slot cut in the outside of the circle.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Could you use a biscuit slot cutter in your router? Might not be as exciting as doing it on the tablesaw but you wuldn't have to worry about that disclaimer.:)

Jerry

Yes, I can!! I have a 1/4" thick slot-cutter bit in the drawer. Never occurred to me.

Good call, Jerry, very good.....that sounds to be far quicker than fabricating the jig for the TS.

Me Likey!!

[Kent A Bathurst]

Why would you want to give yourself the headache of ripping a wagon wheel in half only to glue it back together again? What type of joinery will you be using? What will the ripping of the wheel do to your joinery?

I agree "whaddre you, nuts?" is a legitimate comment, that is unless you subscribe to the Rube Goldberg philosophy.

Personally, I would make two circles, using the first as a template for the second.

Or you could just make the one thicker circle with a slot routed on the inside, then just put the lattice in. Only the center piece of lattice would be a problem, the rest would be shorter than the diameter of your circle and would easily fit in, then slide into place. The center slats could then slide in through a small slot cut in the outside of the circle.

Johnny - you're on the track....the trigger is the inlet for the lattice work....it's just hard to describe in typing. The "2 circles" approach is Plan B. But, with you saying "a slot routed on the inside" combined with Jerry's post, has me tracking a straight-forward, no-thrills solution.

Thanks much

Kent

[Larry Edgerton]

Kent

I on occasion make a sort of thermopane window with a seethrough carving in the middle between layers of glass. They are usually round tops. I make three rings if you will, and the carving is let into the middle ring where it meets the frame. I make seperate patterns for rabbits so they interlock, the outer rings having a 1" rabbit to recieve 1/2 of the center ring each, that holds the carving and seperates the glass. You could use a similar arrangement with your gate.

I have cut circles as you have discribed on the tablesaw. It is not so bad as long as your circle is a precise circle. I make up a saddle that is the same as the outside radius and securely fasten it to the table, usually screwed to a sacrificial piece of plywood that is securely clamped to the tablesaw. The blade is then raised through this jig. The saddle is hit with TopCote so as to be slippery a featherboard to help hold it to the fence and the piece can be rolled through the saw. Not something I would want an employee to do, but perfectly safe if you keep your wits about you.

Sounds like a cool gate. Instead of lattice, how about a carving? Sunburst? Don't forget to put a drain in for the bottom rabbits to help with rot.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kent

I on occasion make a sort of thermopane window with a seethrough carving in the middle between layers of glass. They are usually round tops. I make three rings if you will, and the carving is let into the middle ring where it meets the frame. I make seperate patterns for rabbits so they interlock, the outer rings having a 1" rabbit to recieve 1/2 of the center ring each, that holds the carving and seperates the glass. You could use a similar arrangement with your gate.

I have cut circles as you have discribed on the tablesaw. It is not so bad as long as your circle is a precise circle. I make up a saddle that is the same as the outside radius and securely fasten it to the table, usually screwed to a sacrificial piece of plywood that is securely clamped to the tablesaw. The blade is then raised through this jig. The saddle is hit with TopCote so as to be slippery a featherboard to help hold it to the fence and the piece can be rolled through the saw. Not something I would want an employee to do, but perfectly safe if you keep your wits about you.

Sounds like a cool gate. Instead of lattice, how about a carving? Sunburst? Don't forget to put a drain in for the bottom rabbits to help with rot.

Larry - thanks for the input - especially the point about being careful to line things up when they go back together.

The lattice pattern "extends", if you will, to lattice-topped fence panels on either side, so there is continuity across that entire section [the top of the circle matches the top rail of the fence, so the bottom of the circle sits below the lower edge of the fence's lattice, but the pattern still carries across].

Since this is a one-off, I'll trade the jig and template time for the hand work.

I thought about a continuous rabbet, much the same as you do to receive the glass, but decided to go a different route - precisely because of water infiltration, and also, to be honest, because its simply how I do this stuff - I make a point to prospective clients that I make furniture, and the outdoor stuff is an extension of that mindset and approach. "I won't put anything in your yard that I would not want in my yard, even if that means not doing the job for you."

I'll make the circle, and cut the circle. The lattice will be made out of 7/8" x 1-3/8" lath, with lap joints. I'll lay the lattice on top of the "thick" circle, and mark the mortises and chop them out. They aren't true mortises, because one face is exposed, but I don't know what else to call them. Then, glue the thinner circle back in place.

The fence sections will also have solid rails. I will likely use a long groove on the underneath of the top rail [to receive the top of the lattice] and the underneath of the center rail [to receive the top of the pickets]. The rest will be M & T for the bottom of the lattice and the bottom of the pickets. No gaps will show. No water infiltration.

I have no doubt that I underestimated the hours to make the gate. I've done something roughly comparable before on the fence panels, though, so I'm good there. There is also a 28' x 8' "wall" of lattice along an adjoining garage wall [overlapped, not half-lapped] that was solidly under budget for hours. Net-net, I won't get hurt too badly. As you can imagine, material is a relatively small portion of the total game, and I wanted this gate in the book, to go along with others I've done.

[Dell Littlefield]

How about this? Glue up your stock with a layer of brown paper between a thinner and thicker piece then cut your circle. Once the circle is cut, use a chisel to pop them apart. Turners use this technique to make half columns.

[Floyd Mah]

Here's another approach: Make one large circle. Since you are not adverse to handwork, cut the mortices for the latticework into the bore of the circle and let the ends of the lattice into the circle. Don't know if you intend to weave the lattice in some way that would make it difficult to move the pieces. You could use Forstner bits to start the holes and shape them with a chisel afterwards. This would give it a look that would be different than if you made a groove on the inside and would remove the need to create and then glue up two halves of the circle.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Don't know if you intend to weave the lattice in some way that would make it difficult to move the pieces.

Bingo.......................

[Larry Edgerton]

Since this is a one-off, I'll trade the jig and template time for the hand work.
.

See, for me, the construction of a successful jig/fixture is more satisfying than the job itself at times. Just something I enjoy doing. Not always profitable, but fun.

Sounds like you have an excellent plan. I do much the same with my windows, but I inlay the odd shaped carvings into the center ring before gluing the three halves{?} together. One difference for me is the windows have to keep out Northern Michigan, a task at times.

Would love to see it when its done and installed.

I too have built my business by always going over the top. In these lean times in Michigan I am stil working every day. Only problem is that it makes it very hard to hire help that will work to the standards that my clients dictate. I have created my own monster......

Larry