Reproducible notches (width/depth)

[Bryan Spraul]

Been lurking here for a couple months now and have picked up a lot of knowledge and a lot of yard/estate sale tools. Currently practicing some of that knowledge (sawing, planing) by making Lincoln Logs out of the piles of pine scrap I had accumulating in the shop. The use of a bench hook and a stop have allowed me to cut the logs to length in a very reproducible manner. The use of a edge shooting board has allowed me to make them all the same thickness/width. I'm now to the point of notching the boards (logs). At this point I'm at a loss as to now to be sure they all notches the same width and more importantly the same depth. I can either use a miter saw followed by a coping saw or pare them out with chisels. Is there any way to control depth of cut with a miter saw other than going very slowly, or am I better off using chisels?

[Wilbur Pan]

You could use a small clamp or double stick tape to attach a block of wood to the blade of your saw to act as a depth stop. This saw uses the same concept: http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.117.3&dept_id=13085

[Mike Siemsen]

Most miter saws have depth stops on them. Look at you saw. My power miter has a depth stop as does my manual one.

[Ed Looney]

Have you considered a stair saw? Below is the description from Disston.

The Disston No. 6 Stair Builders' Saw is used for trenching out stringers, making slots in stair treads or risers, cutting dadoes, etc. Removable blade may be raised or lowered to cut any depth up to 3/4 inch. Blade of Disston Steel with Disston temper, is 6 inches long and 1 5/8 inches wide, toothed 8 points to inch. Hardwood handle, weatherproof finish.
Disston Saw, Tool and File Manual. 1940.

PS After removing most of the waste with a chisel, a router plane would make easy work on getting the depth of the notches all consistent


Ed

[Jim Matthews]

Do you try to cut more than one at a time?

If you "gang" several together, they'll share the same kerf line.
It would not be too difficult to clamp the boards together, and mark you lines at once with a sharp knife.

[Russell Sansom]

For some reason, this general operation comes up fairly often in my world. To get this right, you have to get many details right---every one. So it isn't as easy as it looks.

I use the approach Jim outlines above. Here's how I do it.

1. Clamp the "logs" together into what looks like a raft. Their backs should lay flat on a backing board and they should stay that way through the process. You can put a small nail hole in each one at each end and nail them to the backer. For doing this operation on, say, 2X4's, clamp them as a unit. This creates, in effect, a board out of the logs.

2. Come up with two square, well-dressed sticks that are the thickness of the log you want to remain after the notches are removedand lay them lengthwise on either side of the "raft" Secure these two boards. Nail them down, glue them, clamp them. They are the depth stops.

3. Scribe the outlines of the notches across the top of the raft of sticks with a knife. If you think of the raft as one board, then this is the outline for a dado.

4. With a cross-cut joinery saw, saw inside the notch lines down to the depth stops. It's fiddly, but can be done. I've tried a thin sheet of hard plastic atop the depth stops with mixed results; that is, sawing down until my saw just scrapes the plastic.

5. Finally, take out the waste with a shoulder plane, a dado plane, a router, or chisel it out. A chisel will never leave a smooth, uniform bottom. A router will leave a better bottom but not as good as a plane will. I don't use abrasives, but you could at least make the bottom look better with sandpaper. Since each log sits on this machines face, I would aim for perfect.


HOWEVER,
let's face it: Some operations just come out better on powered machinery. This is a good task for a dado blade in a table saw or RAS. In my shop, I would hand's down prefer the vertical mill.

Here's a version that didn't require lincoln-log like perfection. A "ladder" structure that makes the ends of a storage unit. The four ( Milled ) 2X4's were ganged then cut by hand and chopped with a chisel as described above.213007

[Bryan Spraul]

Thanks for all the information/replies. As for the powered machinery there were may times that "this would already be done if I used my stacked dado set" came to mind, but I'm resolved to do this by hand. Had something similar in mind to what you said russell. Sounds like I'll just have to do it slowly/carefully. I don't have the appropriate plane so I'll have to do it via chisel with sandpaper.

[Russell Sansom]

Bryan,
I inadvertently posted photos that go with my earlier comments in another thread here in the Neander section.
It's the one on bench hooks and miter boxes. You can click over there to view them if you're interested. I don't know how to move a comment from thread to thread.

It shows a jig for dealing with a lot of sticks. Nothing earth-shaking, just some visuals to go with all those words.

BTW, a nag's tooth router is pretty simple to throw together. Just chop a tapered hole in a 3/4 hardwood board about the size of your palm, stick a chisel through the hole to the depth you want to gauge and wedge it in. Instant depth scraper/router. I wouldn't use my favorite LN 1/4" dovetail chisel for this kind of thing, but we all have a 1/4" laying around not earning it's keep. Of course, A hex wrench with a chisel ground on it's short end will work instead of a chisel for true router action, but it's hard to wedge it in so it stays.

good luck,
Russ

[Zach England]

Clamp them together and saw them all at once. Pare the waste out with a chisel and if necessary plane the bottom of the "notch" with a shoulder plane.

How are you going to make those plastic roof pieces? Lincoln logs are nothing without them.

[Zach England]

Did you know the lincoln logs were invented by the son of Frank Lloyd Wright?

[David Keller NC]

Bryan - You may have already figured this out, but it would be a whole lot easier to cut the dado out of both ends before you actually saw the board into separate "logs". There are many operations using hand tools that go in reverse order to what you'd typically do with power tools, and other operations that, while possible with hand tools, are inconvenient/difficult, so one typically changes the construction design to accomodate the tools to be used. An example of this is stopped grooves - while one can certainly cut them with router plane, doing so is much slower and considerably more hassle than cutting a through-groove. So one typically cuts a through-groove and modifies the dovetails at either end to hide the ends of the trench.

[Jim Matthews]

What Zach said - with a depth stop as recommended by Wilbur.

This is pretty much elemental - this is the way I would cut these.
I think this emulates the cutting of screen grids for Shoji.

[Michael Ray Smith]

I'm coming to the discussion a little late, but I wanted to say "here, here" to Ed's suggestion to use a stair saw for cutting kerfs (and hence notches, etc.) to a specific depth. They are great for this purpose, and you can pick them up on eBay very reasonably. Most of the ones you'll find are Disston, but I use one made was by G.H. Bishop (I like it better than the Disstons for no reason other than it was made in Indiana, where I live). If you want a shallow cut -- say, 1/4 inch or less -- you may need to modify them just a bit -- how to do it is pretty obvious when you look at the blade and handle after they're separated.

You can also quickly make a reasonable substitute from a cheap back saw (one you don't mind destroying) by sandwiching the blade between two wooden fences and joining them together with two small bolts. Drill matching holes in the fences and cut two matching vertical slots in the saw blade. Insert the bolts though all three layers of the sandwich, then tighten them with wing nuts (to make adjustment a bit easier). I made one and used it until I latched onto a real stair saw. (The fences made it the heaviest 10" back saw I ever used, but for this purpose that doesn't really matter.) It took a little longer than I liked to adjust the fences, but it worked okay. In one respect, it was actually easier to use than a real stair saw because it's difficult to see where you're cutting with a stair saw (which is why some people start the kerf with another saw, then switch to the stair saw to finish to the correct depth). My cheap substitute had a couple of inches of saw blade sticking out in front of the fences so I could at least see the toe with no trouble.