Well I posted a gloat last week, but my new planer arrived dead on delivery.

[Bob Feeser]

Ok so I got all excited about a new Shop Fox 15" 3hp planer that I ordered from Amazon. It sure was going to be a lot better than my Craftsman 12 1/2" contractors model. Every time I did a wood working job, and I did so professionally for awhile, the worst part of the whole job was planing the wood. I know I am talking to seasoned woodworkers so I won't bore you with the details. Anyhow, after many sleepless nights awaiting the new arrival, it finally got here on Friday. It was uncrated. It's about 700 pounds in the crate. So the crew moved it downstairs to my shop, and then I was going about the assembly and setup procedures.

To tell you the truth as soon as I saw it I wanted a bigger one. I knew the 20" is what I really wanted. But it was already here, and what the heck 3hp is enough. So to make a long story short, I started the assembly, and cosmolene removal, and decided why don't I install the plug and fire this thing up. I remember saying a prayer in my head that it wouldn't start so I would have an excuse to get the 20. So I hit the green start button, and it went nawwwwwww, and no movement. Hot damn, 20 incher here I come. So I called Amazon and sure enough they wrote up a defective ticket, and am shipping me the 20. It has a 5hp and draws 30 amps. The 15 only drew 20. I have a 30 amp setup down there already.

So that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

[Roger Jensen]

Hi Bob,

I don't know you and I'm probably missing your sense of humor, but the last sentence in your post appears to indicate your planer was fine and you're swindling Amazon out of shipping charges so you can get the unit you want.

[Stanley Thigpen]

I didn't get the impression that Bob did anything wrong. He just got lucky (?) and the thing would not run, giving him a chance to re-order.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I don't get the impression at all the he's swindling anyone. He says the motor didn't run.

[Rick Fisher]

My General International planer showed up dead.. It happens.. In my case, the cap on the motor pinched and cut one of the hot wires when it was built.. As soon as I put the power to it, it cooked..

Here is a picture I took ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/My%20Machinery/Planer%20General/P1010094.jpg

General sent out a new motor and a fella from the store I bought it from helped me change it out..

[Peter Quinn]

That is a most fortunate way out of buyers remorse Bob! The only down side is you had to clean that cosmoline before discovering the motor was dead. Glad to hear this worked out in your favor. I'm betting you wont miss the old lunch box at all. I'd love to get a 20" planer, but my Delta is almost 20 years old. Think I can send it back to them?

[Bob Feeser]

Hi Bob,

I don't know you and I'm probably missing your sense of humor, but the last sentence in your post appears to indicate your planer was fine and you're swindling Amazon out of shipping charges so you can get the unit you want.

Ouch. Are you having a bad day. Thanks for the vote on my integrity. There are those who come for to lie, steal, murder, and destroy and I am not one of them. Honesty is always the best policy. Don't you think Amazon is going to check the machine out when it is returned? Won't they then determine if what I am telling them is the truth or not, and charge my account accordingly?

I can see however how my last comment may have steered you in the wrong direction. It was meant as a gloat, and not an indication of the integrity of my actions. I love Amazon. So if someone is out to protect Amazon, I am on your side, not against you.

In the words of Richard Nixon, "I hope I have made myself perfectly clear". (Please don't misunderstand that one too!) :)

[Mark Engel]

“I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” - Richard M. Nixon

:)

[Gene Howe]

“I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” - Richard M. Nixon

:)

Nixon may have said that, but the first time I heard it was from my mother. And, I'm sure it wasn't original with her. I believe HST was president at the time.:D
Tricky Dick was too clever by half. However, IMHO he never had an original thought. Well, maybe... "I think we should erase about 18 minutes of that tape."

[David Nelson1]

“I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.” - Richard M. Nixon

:)

ROFLMAO I forgot about that quote!!!!!!!!

[David Weaver]

You'll like 20 inches so much better. I don't have anything but a lunchbox, but I mooch on a buddy's 20 inch DC580 delta with a spiral head on it. There are a lot of things glued together that are between 15 and 20 inches, and it's nice to be able to run them through a planer rather than looking for a wide belt sander, etc.

If you have the amperage to run it (and you covered that already), then by all means..

[Jim Matthews]

If Amazon can afford this much free shipping, how wide is their profit margin?

[Neil Brooks]

If Amazon can afford this much free shipping, how wide is their profit margin?

If they can afford this much free shipping ... in the small % of cases where returns and re-ships are required .....

And it DOES cut into their profit margins, but ... it's factored in, as a cost of doing business.

[Curt Harms]

If Amazon can afford this much free shipping, how wide is their profit margin?


If they can afford this much free shipping ... in the small % of cases where returns and re-ships are required .....

And it DOES cut into their profit margins, but ... it's factored in, as a cost of doing business.

And I'm pretty sure Amazon pays a LOT less to ship that planer than you or I would pay.

[Jerome Hanby]

And I'm pretty sure Amazon pays a LOT less to ship that planer than you or I would pay.

I also bet they don't pay much if anything if it arrives damaged.

[John Coloccia]

Amazon is paying for shipping? Isn't most of this stuff dropped shipped and Amazon is just a clearing house/coordinator? I kind of see them as an ebay without auctions....heck, these days Ebay is kind of like an Ebay without auctions.

[Tom Gerken]

Did you turn the Red Button prior to hitting the green button?

[Brian Kincaid]

Did you turn the Red Button prior to hitting the green button?

Thinking the same thing. The red button has a lockout that you have to turn it clockwise about a quarter turn for the start button to work.
-Brian

[Paul Johnstone]

So much for relying on Amazon reviews.. I remember your initial thread :)
Hope the 20" works when it arrives.
At least you are in good spirits.. I would be annoyed with the prospect of hauling the 15" back up the stairs and repackaging..

[Jerome Hanby]

i think I'd be a lot more cheerful about hauling that planer back out if i had already been second guessing myself on buying the larger one. And, I'd be a lot more motivated to tinker with the larger one if it arrived in non-working condition! (I'd also fire it up in the drive way before moving it too <g>)


So much for relying on Amazon reviews.. I remember your initial thread :)
Hope the 20" works when it arrives.
At least you are in good spirits.. I would be annoyed with the prospect of hauling the 15" back up the stairs and repackaging..

[Jim Underwood]

The red button has a lockout that you have to turn it clockwise about a quarter turn for the start button to work.


If the e-stop button was pushed in, I don't think it would have made any noise at all...

The fact that it did make noise and didn't move the motor? Well, that indicates a problem.

I wonder if there wasn't some blocking in place to keep it from moving during shipment?

[Bob Feeser]

Did you turn the Red Button prior to hitting the green button?

Yes I tried that two or three times. Each time resetting the red button, twisting the threaded ring to release it, and then tried the green again. I believe if the red button was actuated it would not make a humming sound when the green button is pushed. Thanks for the tip though. I have that same setup on my 8" Powermatic jointer so I am familiar with the procedure. When I push the red button in on the jointer you get absolutely no response out of the green on button at all. When releasing the red button it starts. In the case of this jointer when you release the red button and hit the start-green button it just hums and no movey. :-)

I want to share with you the Amazon policies. I have bought over 30k of tools from them over the past 15 years or so. When I receive something that is busted, or damaged in shipment, which doesn't happen very often, they offer to either replace the unit at no cost to me, or they offer me to receive all the parts I need plus a certain percentage discount. So to me I don't want to mess with it. Furthermore knowing I love the 20" I have decided to take the replacement offer. For this reason I buy most of my tools from Amazon, although I have and will continue to buy tools from several of the others as well. Outstanding customer service rules.

[Bob Feeser]

Dave,
Thanks for the reply. Yes I am super excited about the 20". It's another 600 and some dollars but I think it is worth it. I also have to run another 40 amp 8 gauge line into the shop. Only dedicated lines for these guys. I have one for the 5hp table saw, but I don't want to be plugging and unplugging it each time I make a planing, and then a cut. You know the usual procedure. Run a rough board over the jointer in order to joint one side, and one edge, and then run it through the planer, and then finally over to the table saw for cutting to width. Some may prefer to actually joint one side and one edge and then go directly to cutting on the table saw. I'm getting technical, but the left over width that way is re-jointable in the event there is a tiny bit of warpage from sitting. Anyhow the 20 is a dream. It just leaves more options open. I am jonesin it for a spiral though. That will have to wait. I am going to look at the 20" drum sander for final passes instead. The money for the spiral head will cover half the cost of the 20" drum sander BUT will it leave ripples in the finish. I understand the large belt sanders are better for that, but to get something 20 inches or larger is some major money.

[Bob Feeser]

Onto another topic that I am concerned about. This planer has two rollers on the bed and they are adjustable. Each side is adjustable. Since the top section with the blades is a fixed head (It can be adjustable but then you get into messing with the gears and chain which the manual says is a pain in the butt) So anyhow the rollers are adjustable. They tell you to take a block of wood, and raise the lower bed up just until it touches the top, and then check the other side. They both should match. Anyhow since it has two rollers which are a little higher than the cast iron bed wouldn't that wreak havoc on getting a lot of snipe??? both on the infeed and outfeed. On the infeed because it is climbing over the first roller, and the outfeed because it is free of the first roller and the rear roller is the only one that is touching it. Unless there is some kind of rub spot along the top (equivalent to the roof of your mouth) that does not allow the board to enter or exit at an angle. I have never used one like this before. Anyone have any know how as to how it works. Thanks ahead of time.

[Bob Feeser]

You know what it is like being a member here at SMC? It is like having a thousand best friends. What a lonely world it is. When you buy a new piece of gear, or you need some help in figuring out a problem, then you are at the ready always willing to lend a helping hand. I just had an incredibly warm feeling knowing I was going to go back and log in and see what others are saying. What a great forum.
I'm wondering when the forum will have a video app that enables a big screen in the shop to have live feeds from around the membership so projects don't need to be done alone anymore.

[Jim Andrew]

Is the Shop fox 20" planer the same as a Grizzly model? I really enjoy those Griz sale catalogs. And no problem with getting a problem fixed. My new sander was cutting off the belts, and the hose in the sander, they sent repairs, and then I read the posts on SMC and found I wasn't getting the belt on right.

[Bob Feeser]

Ok the new 20" is shipped. Amazon says it will get here Friday, but I found them to be over generous in their expectancy date, and then the customer is surprised when it arrives earlier than anticipated. You see it left Clarlisle today at 3:51pm which is a less than 2 hour ride from here. So today is Monday. Even if they offload tomorrow/Tuesday, a more likely scenario will mean Wednesday or Thursday. I will give it a day to settle down, and call Amazon and get the carriers phone number and coordinate it with them.
I better get downstairs into the shop and disassemble what I put together on the 15, box it back up and get it ready to ship. You never know when they are going to surprise me.

[Don Morris]

What do you get when the 20 doesn't work?

[Bob Feeser]

What do you get when the 20 doesn't work?

A new motor!

Ok for the detractors only if it is truly defective.

My philosophy is that those who lie, cheat, and steal are those who are too stupid to figure out how to get what they want honestly. My advice is not to be niave and purposely give everything away, but rather learn how to deal with the truth effectively. Sure we are dealing in a competitive market but honesty rules.

I do want to comment on Amazon's customer service. After stating how they treat the customer it makes everyone want to buy from them. It does put the squeeze on the suppliers to live up to extra high standards, but with the volume they make up for it.

One more case in point about Amazon. I bought a large screen TV from them last year. I found the same TV $150 cheaper from some no name outfit. I decided I wanted to buy it from Amazon so I would have the security. I saw there were a substantial number of shipping damage claims on them. Sure enough the shipping company arrived with the TV, and the box didn't appear damaged because they stood it on its side with the damage side down. When I got it inside and moved the box and saw someone dropped it on it's side crushing that part of the box I immediately called Amazon, and they told me that I should inspect it and if there is any damage I could exchange it for a new one, or they could give me a $300 discount on the one that I already have. I saw the damage was on the metal cage, or backing plates, and also the front lip where the screen meets the body the plastic has cracked a little. You could see the damage from the front only if you were aware of it. So I offered to send photos and they said no we take your word for it, and refunded me the $300. I straightened out the metal on the back as best I could, it is very acceptable, and enjoyed my now damaged shipment goods TV. So my decision to pay more from Amazon paid off.
I am only telling you about all of this because, I LOVE AMAZON.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Bob, the bed rollers are for rough or wet material.

I always lower mine below the bed, since I don't plane anything that doesn't have a jointed face.

Wax the bed with paste wax frequently and you'll be good.........Best wishes on the new planer..............Rod.

[Bob Feeser]

When I was on the phone with Amazon they said that they pay $400 to ship one across the country. Fortunately both of these shipped from locations not more than an hour away. I thought it was odd that the shipping company was able to sub the job out. I realized that there must have been enough money in the shipping to be able to do that.

[Bob Feeser]

Amazon is paying for shipping? Isn't most of this stuff dropped shipped and Amazon is just a clearing house/coordinator? I kind of see them as an ebay without auctions....heck, these days Ebay is kind of like an Ebay without auctions.

I shouldn't profess to be an expert on the inside dealings of Amazon because I am not. However these planers were in stock and sold by Amazon. They also have outside vendors selling them also and they clearly state that as such at the top of the listing, or on the side bars with multiple vendors making it available for sale. So yes they are at times, many times a clearing house/coordinator, but you always know that going in, it is not like they are pulling a fast one hiding it from everybody. Amazon's integrity is why I deal with them all of the time. I see occassionally there is something going a little cheaper elsewhere, but the convenience and service rarely make it worthwhile to go elsewhere. (I do buy from others besides Amazon though from time to time but they are my main haunch)

[Bob Feeser]

Factoid: The plot thickens. Ok I noticed the return shipping label that Amazon sent me via email has a postage due on it. So I called them, and they are covering the postage to return it due to the fact that it is defective merchandise. However I noticed in the conversations that if it is bought from a third party they do not cover return postage on returned defective merchandise but rather refund you the shipping instead. I guess the reason for that is that with a third party they release funds for the item minus their 15% or whatever, and are not holding funds to guarantee the return postage in the event the item turns out to be non defective.
So all is well. The shipper and Amazon are coordinating and it was confirmed that it will be arriving tomorrow and it is sent enhanced shipping which means the shipping company will have a few guys with them and deliver it down the steps to the basement. (And pick up the defective 15 at the same time)

So to make a long story short. Try and buy large equipment from items that Amazon has in stock instead of from third parties for tops in customer service.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Factoid: Try and buy large equipment from items that Amazon has in stock instead of from third parties for tops in customer service.

good thing you didn't buy a jet or a powermatic. i doubt your problem would have been resoved as quickly or as satisfactorily.

[Bob Feeser]

Ok I just got off of the phone with ABF and they called to tell me that they do not have the special equipment to get it down the steps and they are working with Amazon to redirect the job to someone who is so specially equipped. They will be calling me tomorrow and rescheduling with the new company. Hmmm... or should I say shucks I can't wait to get it.

[Don Wacker]

good thing you didn't buy a jet or a powermatic. i doubt your problem would have been resoved as quickly or as satisfactorily.

:) actually PM has pretty good service. My PM2800 arrived doa. Took 4 days for a new one to show up and the driver loaded and took the dead one. I screwed up and broke the air pump nipple on my pm2415 bandsaw. Sent PM a pic by email of the motor sticker in a few days a whole new motor arrived. All they wanted back was the sticker off the motor.
The purchase was even easier. I called PM and said I wanted to by more than 35K worth of tools but was not going to pay shipping and needed a hand getting them into the shop. They checked stock and had a dealer call me for a credit card number within 5 minutes. 4 days later tractor trailer arrived with another truck pulling a fork lift on a trailer. Two guys loaded into my shop and drove away with the extra pallets. Pretty darn good service IMO.

Don

[Tom Zillig]

Love all the Nixon quotes. Up there with Agnew's "Nattering Nabobs of Negativity."

[Joseph Tarantino]

:) actually PM has pretty good service. My PM2800 arrived doa. Took 4 days for a new one to show up and the driver loaded and took the dead one. I screwed up and broke the air pump nipple on my pm2415 bandsaw. Sent PM a pic by email of the motor sticker in a few days a whole new motor arrived. All they wanted back was the sticker off the motor.
The purchase was even easier. I called PM and said I wanted to by more than 35K worth of tools but was not going to pay shipping and needed a hand getting them into the shop. They checked stock and had a dealer call me for a credit card number within 5 minutes. 4 days later tractor trailer arrived with another truck pulling a fork lift on a trailer. Two guys loaded into my shop and drove away with the extra pallets. Pretty darn good service IMO.

Don

talk to me when the warranties/guaranties expire, or when you encounter a problem that requires more assistance than just "we'll ship you a new tool/part".