UH OH....Now I've done it....

[Ken McAllister]

Greetings all. Folks here have helped me before and I'm hoping you all can save me again.

So I've saved up for a Shelix Byrd helical head for my Delta RC-33 13" Planer--no small feat. After talking to their tech people, they asked me to measure the spline on the cutterhead, which necessitates the removal of the cutterhead from the machine. No problem, I figure--I'll have to do it eventually anyway.

So after removing various bolts, gears, shrouds, and chains, it appeared that the only way to actually remove the cutterhead was by removing five or six hex bolts in a roughly 5" x 6" box sitting behind the chain gears that drive the feed mechanism.

No problem, I says to myself, and got out my hex wrenches. The bolts came out just fine, but the cover plate won't budge. Upon closer inspection, I realized that the cover was friction fit...or something...to the housing, and that there's a convenient lip that I can put a block of wood against, give it a rap, remove the housing cover, and move on to the removing the cutterhead.

I give the cover a couple of whacks and suddenly find a medium weight oil pouring all over the floor. As I examine the situation more closely, I see what I now realize is a drain plug in the bottom of the housing and a fill plug up toward the top; apparently the bearings for the drive side of the cutterhead sit in a sealed oil bath, which I have now disrupted.

Worse, a thirty year old seal that kept the oil in the housing is now contaminated and I have no idea how to replace it.

So here are my questions:
Does anyone know if I'm on the right track for removing the cutter head? I've got the manual, but this machine shipped with the cutterhead in place and says nothing about removing it.
Is Delta likely to have a seal for this part in their inventory still? If not, any ideas about what I might use as an alternative?
Is the oil that spilled out of this housing likely to be something special? To me, it looked like a 40 weight motor oil--but I don't know jack, as this tale makes clear.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Ken.

[Rick Fisher]

You might post a picture ..

If its the gear box, its not a big deal, your supposed to change the oil from time to time.

Finding a suitable lubricant will not be a problem, nor will making a gasket if you cannot buy one..

[James Baker SD]

You want to refill with gear oil rather than motor oil. Slightly different additives.

[Jim Matthews]

These things are built like tanks, and may be superior to the current product line.

MikesTools.com (http://www.mikestools.com/download/Delta-Parts-Lists/22-650-Model-RC-33-13-Inch-Planer-P2A.pdf) lists a manual and should be able to supply the necessary soft goods.

I think Fine Woodworking had a video on this, and mentioned using a "pillow block" piece of lumber beneath the head to jiggle things into place.
The lift mechanism was used to get things aligned.

It's messy, but the hypoid gear oil can be cleaned from the bed with an appropriate solvent.
It might even be good for the casting!

You can fix this, and it will be worth the effort.

jim
wpt, ma

[David Nelson1]

I agree with Jim. My RC 33 was rock solid. I just hated messing with the blades with an overhead motor all of them as a pain. You'll love the spiral head once everything is back together.

[Ken McAllister]

Thanks for the encouragement, all.

I've gotten a little farther on the project. I managed to remove the various gears and was able to pull the cutterhead out of the machine. It's a beast.

The thing I can't figure out now is how to remove the cutterhead and bearing assembly from the gear box. This is fairly maddening because it seems like I'm just one step away from finally freeing the cutterhead. Also, I can't get a good measurement of the spline without more clearance for my calipers.

Here's a link to some images of the cutter head/gear box conundrum--any ideas about how to free this thing? I've got the manual, but the exploded diagram doesn't give any indication about how the bearing is attached to the gear box housing and I sure don't see anything to clarify the situation.

Is it possible that it's just press fit in there? Or is that spline--which appears to be attached to the head itself (it rotates when the head rotates)--somehow screwed into something?

I'm stumped...

I picked up some gear oil (85w-140 I think) and will be ready to go when I get this next part figured out, am able to measure the spline, and order the new Shelix.

Jim, thanks for the pointer to Mike's Tools. They've got a couple of other parts I was looking for.

Check out the pics here (https://picasaweb.google.com/114226037833695572958/RC33).

Ken.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Cutter head is most likely (IMHO) pressed into bearing. You RC-33 / DC-33 is the basis for ALL of the 15" four post planers made. Go over to OWWM, and most likely there will be post on changing cutter head. If not, look at changing the head in a Delta 15". Probably use a BRASS drift pin and hammer to drive it out from bearing in gear box.

[Jim Matthews]

I finally found the video from Popular woodworking about the subject.

Glen Huey (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/the-changing-of-the-cutterhead) gets dirty...it gets interesting around 5:10.
A bearing puller is employed at 6:49. The bearings are reinstalled on the new shaft with a dead blow mallet and a PVC pipe section.
Note the heavy use of clamps and supports for the bearing refit.

At 9:30 he alludes to using the lift mechanism to raise the cutterhead on wooden support blocks.
These are heavy, mounted in rotating bearings and sharp - too much for a mere mortal to manipulate by hand.

The screw lift mechanism makes this possible without strain.

[Ken McAllister]

Thanks Bruce and Jim. The Glen Huey video is excellent--I wish I would have known about it before I began. He kind of skims over the part where I'm now stuck, unfortunately, but it seems like he confirms Bruce's suspicion that the cutter head is pressed into the bearing on the gear box side. What I can't tell is how the bearing is connected to the gear box itself. At 6'25" or so, Glen seems to suggest that I should just be able to tap the box off the cutter head spindle/axel/journal. I thought I'd tried that but perhaps I wasn't persuasive enough....

To order the Shelix, I need to first tell them the thickness of the spline (see pics in link above). To be honest, I'm not 100% sure I know what the spline is, but I think it's that raised ridge on the end of the cutter head axle (or whatever it's called). Can anyone confirm this?

And to make this measurement, I first need to get the darn cutter head off the gear box. I'll try the drift pin technique tomorrow.

Thanks again, everyone. I'll keep uploading photos to indicate my progress.

Cheers,

ken.

[Jim Matthews]

The spline should be as you have indicated, the raised ridge that indexes the helical drive gear.

You'll likely need to put a set of calipers (or micrometer) on this. If you don't own one, you can take the works to a machine shop nearby - they'll have sufficient measuring gear.
That would also be the place I recommend to have the gear box removed from the shaft. You might consider replacing both bearings when you fit your new SHELIX head.

Your time is valuable, it makes sense to replace the "deepest" pieces now.

I would ask the Byrd tech support about what steps to follow on restart - I expect there are some things you must verify to keep this altogether.

(Excellent photos - I do the same thing when disassembling electrical panels and follow the reverse steps to stuff everything back inside.)

[Ken McAllister]

Well, there's progress. With some wiggling and a few blows with a drift pin and dead blow mallet, I managed to free the cutter head from the bearing. This means I was also able to finally get a reading on the spline thickness: .157".

A question for those of you with more machining knowledge than I have: as I measure the drive gear's gap for the spline, it looks like .160". This means there's a difference of .003" between the drive gear's slot and the spline that fits into it--does that seem about right? The reason I'm asking is because I think the spline deformed slightly during the removal process. The .157" measurement is a pretty consistent one across the length of the spline, but there were spots that were .158", .159", and even a .161" (the gear no longer fits on this point). Before I tell Shelix to cut the spline at .157" I want to make sure that's not going to result in a bunch of play in the assembly.

Byrd sells the bearings for $26.50/pair and they install one, and the other has to be installed by me. I think you're right, Jim--might as well do this now, especially since I screwed up the bearing in the gear box end when doing the removal (see the pics--it's the one with the exposed ball bearings).

As I noted above, I'm still at a loss for how to remove the bearing from the gear box housing. It seems crazy that I need to take this to a machine shop at this point, but if I have to, I have to I guess. <Sigh> I guess I can do that while waiting for the Shelix.

ken.

[Myk Rian]

This may get it out.
K-Tool-International-KTI70356-Bearing-Hammer/dp/B003UMTQ6O
212818 (http://www.amazon.com/K-Tool-International-KTI70356-Bearing-Hammer/dp/B003UMTQ6O)

[Bill White]

Get one of the liquid gasket compounds in a tube. Can't remember which one I used on the Jaguar XKE, but I think it was Permatex. Believe me. On the XKE I used a bunch.
You'll have to clean the mating surfaces well with acetone/naptha.
Good luck.
Bill

[Jim Matthews]

...Than a Jag - buy the gasket as originally installed.

[Ken McAllister]

Good news! Thanks to Myk Rian's suggestion plus the suggestion in the video suggested a few posts back, I decided to try a solution with a bit more force than I'd attempted. Assuming that the bearing would have to have been inserted from inside the gear box and pressed up to a lip behind it, I used a spark plug pulling socket centered over the side of the bearing facing out, and gave it several solid raps with a mallet--out it popped! The bearing was wrecked from my previous hamfisted attempts to remove the cutter head, so I didn't need to be all that careful in this instance (I'd already resigned myself to getting new bearings).

I've uploaded some new pics, which show the now empty gear box, as well as the lip/cavity in which the bearing sat.

Now I'll order the Shelix and start cleaning the machine while I'm waiting for delivery. I'll post pics of the reassembly when I get to that point, and I'm sure there will be more questions....

Cheers all!

ken.

PS: Jim, are you recommending against the Permatex? If so, why? It seems a much better solution than the flimsy gasket....

[Chuck Wintle]

I would also take a picture at each stage of the dis-assembly process...the mind can easily forget the little details. Been there done that. and take notes if it helps.

[Myk Rian]

Buy gasket material at an auto supply. Use a ball peen hammer to cut it around the casting, tapping with the peen end.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Byrd sells the bearings for $26.50/pair and they install one, and the other has to be installed by me. I think you're right, Jim--might as well do this now, especially since I screwed up the bearing in the gear box end when doing the removal (see the pics--it's the one with the exposed ball bearings).

As I noted above, I'm still at a loss for how to remove the bearing from the gear box housing. It seems crazy that I need to take this to a machine shop at this point, but if I have to, I have to I guess. <Sigh> I guess I can do that while waiting for the Shelix.

ken.On cutter side of gear box, how much of the bearing can you see? Enough to get a socket on it and tap it out? For $26 a pair, I would check out other sources for bearings, but as my grandsons say "I'm tight!" 0.003 of clearance between spline and gear isn't excessive, as there is also a grease film there to cushion parts. A hint for installing bearings on cutter head. Put bearing on top of a 60 - 100 watt light bulb (lit of course) for about three minutes. Using a leather glove pick up bearing, and most likely it will literally slide on shaft.

[ray hampton]

On cutter side of gear box, how much of the bearing can you see? Enough to get a socket on it and tap it out? For $26 a pair, I would check out other sources for bearings, but as my grandsons say "I'm tight!" 0.003 of clearance between spline and gear isn't excessive, as there is also a grease film there to cushion parts. A hint for installing bearings on cutter head. Put bearing on top of a 60 - 100 watt light bulb (lit of course) for about three minutes. Using a leather glove pick up bearing, and most likely it will literally slide on shaft.

your leather glove need to be a welding gloves not a driving glove

[Ken McAllister]

Great suggestions, Bruce and Ray.

Many thanks!

ken.

[Jim Matthews]

I'm NOT recommending Permatex.

I think OEM parts should be used. I never found the right sized bead with it; too much and the parts won't close properly - creating a leak.
Too little, and it won't fill the channel - creating a leak. If it's the blue kind - you'll never get it off your clothes.

There's also the cure time, the seal will slide on and you're good to go. Permatex needs time to cure.
I had a Volvo 144 that was held together with this stuff - just barely.

That light bulb trick from Bruce is clever.

[Ken McAllister]

Done. Thanks Jim.

ken.

[Bruce Wrenn]

your leather glove need to be a welding gloves not a driving gloveIf bearing is too hot to handle with just leather work gloves, then you have over heated it.

[Ken McAllister]

Just thought I'd let everyone know that I continue to add pics of the tear down and clean up. The new cutter head is supposed to ship tomorrow. They said it would ship last week, but apparently there was a mix-up in the shop.

Here's the link again (https://picasaweb.google.com/114226037833695572958/RC33).

Ken.

[Steven Woodward]

Tis the season of covid, so find myself going through old threads. Too late to help Ken McAllister, but perhaps someone else can benefit from my experience.

As there were no Byrd Shelix upgrade instructions available for the RC-33, I created a YouTube video, which also shows lubrication, adjustments, and gasket seal replacement, for the RC-33: https://youtu.be/zFdcSKi47ZU (https://youtu.be/zFdcSKi47ZU)
At 19:50 the video shows how to make a new gasket seal, and at 25:50 how to instal seal. I got no leaks this way. If you like the video, please leave a comment.

After watching the video, you may find it easier to work from written instructions, which are available in the following folder, along with other documents for the RC-33, including instruction manual and parts diagram: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_Qm84_ZeMmsxgP-hHsI-Ppf39kiUOEU3 (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_Qm84_ZeMmsxgP-hHsI-Ppf39kiUOEU3)