Treadle lathe height question

[Matt Sullenbrand]

Hi folks,

I recently acquired an old Powr Kraft lathe bed for free, complete with a bucket of parts that includes a chopsaw style cutoff saw (for steel), a grinder attachment and tool rest, a collet chuck, and lots of other handy bells and whistles. Too many bells and whistles for a hand tool galoot, but pretty fun anyway. I am planning on using this lathe bed for a treadle lathe that would double as a tool grinder. Has anyone had had any experience with making this type of tool? My main question is regarding the height of the lathe. My spring pole is set up so that the drive center is level with my elbows when standing and that works quite well. I did read somewhere on the web that sometimes treadle lathers work sitting down since it can be hard to balance on one foot while pedaling. It seems like the treadle lathes designed by Roy Underhill are pretty low-you always see him bending over to use them, and that makes my back hurt just watching him. I wonder if these are more designed for sitting. What do you all think? Design the machine for standing or sitting, and if sitting what type of height? Obviously this is not really adjustable after the fact so I hope to get it right the first time. Thanks!

[george wilson]

Look in the FAQ section at the treadle lathe I made that is in the Cabinet Maker's Shop in Williamsburg. Call 1-757-229-1000,and ask for Mack Headley. Ask him to measure the height of the bed for you. I can't remember how high I made it,as it was made years ago. If you can't access the FAQ without being a contributor,search for the treadle lathe post I did. The pictures are still in that post before they put it into the FAQ section.

[russell lusthaus]

Hi Matt

I built a treadle lathe last winter - you can find pics on here if you search around. I made it so that the top of the ways was at or around my elbow height when standing flat footed. It works for me - and yes, Roy looks like he is always bending over - I had his magazine article on hand when building and seem to remember raising mine above what he specified. If you like, I can do some measuring for you. I do not think (at least with my set up) that you would be able to treadle with enough ummph from a seated position for it to be worthwhile, even if the lathe bed was able to be lowered. You will get the hang of treadleing while standing on one foot - that wont be a problem - the problem will be your conditioning - ie . .how long can you treadle before you need a nap. No heat needed in the shop over the winter if you plan on turning alot.

Just because it is interesting to me, I have been thinking about outfitting my lathe to be powered by bicycle pedaling (from a seated position). At this point, I I have just been thinking about it, though - no doing. I also wanted to add Roys scroll saw feature to my lathe - but never got around to it.

Russ

[george wilson]

Here's the lathe if you can't access FAQ. Patterned after an 18th.C. original in the Science Museum in London. The flywheel is 5" thick oak,24" in dia. Grooves cut when the wheel was in situ,to make it run perfectly true. A big,very heavy flywheel is the key to a good treadle lathe.

[ray hampton]

[NO PUN intended ] but if you pedal very long while setting - down, REMOVE everything from your back pockets

[george wilson]

Why is that? Because the treadle lathe pick pocket will sneak up on you?:)

[ray hampton]

How can a pick pocket pick pocketes when there is no pockets to pick

[george wilson]

Is the treadler wearing pants?

[ray hampton]

pants are not permitted , only britches or dresses

[Matt Sullenbrand]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I would appreciate the height measurements of your lathe if you have them handy Russel. Thanks George for the contact at Colonial Williamsburg. Are you sure I would not be a bother to call Mack and ask for some measurements? Also, in Roy's article he suggests carving the grooves in the flywheel since the boards are laminated in different directions and there are some real cross grain issues. What method did you use for cutting the grooves while the wheel is turning?

[george wilson]

Museum personnel are there to answer questions. As for cutting the grooves,I just set up a big block of hardwood on the floor next to the flywheel,and rested the chisel on it. You might want to arrange something MORE SECURE!!! It worked for me,but I am good at staying out of trouble due to much experience. I had no trouble with the tool grabbing,but a lot depends upon the personal skill you can bring to bear.

[Andrae Covington]

For what it's worth, in the PW article that Roy wrote showing how to build a somewhat simpler version of his treadle lathe, the center is 36" from the floor. However, he stated that the lathe was sized to make it easier to transport, and that you could make it as tall and as long as you liked.

Not to derail the discussion too much, but George, I've always been curious about the multiple grooves on the flywheel and pulley on the lathe you built. I understand on a machine powered by an electric motor that runs at a constant speed, the working speed of the tool can be adjusted with the different pulley diameters. But on a human-powered lathe, seems like you just adjust your treadling speed. Do they really use all those different grooves?

[russell lusthaus]

Matt

I will take some measurements tonite and get back to you tomorrow. I did like George did - cut the groove on the flywheel in place. I started off with a chisel to form the edges, and then attacked the middle with a round rasp.

I have seen some with a drive pulley with multiple and differing diameter grooves to change speeds. Instead of this route, I have made three different sized connecting arms to change speeds. It works well, but I don't use the feature very often. That is, the arm which connects the treadle assembly to the fly wheel - different length - change of speed.

Russ

[Adam Cherubini]

George, what wood did you use for the ways and how does the head work? Are there bearings in there? Oiled plain bearings?

To answer the OPs question, I think the center line of the spindle should be up pretty high, close to elbow height. The height of the ways is a matter of how large a swing you want and the stiffness of the poppets. With treadle lathes, I think it's helpful to think about knee room. I spoke with my friend Warren some time ago about this last bit- all images of really old lathes show tools with short handles. I was curious as to whether this was due to the ergonomics of the treadle (bumping knee into tool handle for example.). But I usually tread with my left foot only and use my right hand to cut. Warren does a fair bit of turning and his tools are all long handled. He didn't have any problem. But food for thought.

Adam

[russell lusthaus]

Hi Matt

The top of the ways on my lathe is 35 inches off the floor. The center of the drive axle is 8 inches higher than that (8inch swing). The ways themselves are full 2 1/2 by 4 oak and there has been no issue with the leg room between the bottom of the ways and the treadle assembly. The Flywheel is 24 inches in dia and it is 3 1/2 thick.

Russ