PDA

View Full Version : Chinese laser tech and "western" lasers join forces.



Rodne Gold
11-10-2011, 3:08 AM
Have a look at the GCC x252 / x380 and X500 lasers , they using GCC chassis and RECI glass tubes , at MUCH cheaper prices - the "western" (GCC is Taiwanese but competes with western tech and reliabilty) mnfgrs are reacting to the chinese threat
http://www.grafityp.co.uk/engraving-gcc-lasers-x252.html
Price here for a x252 with an 80w tube and all the bells and whistles including rotaries etc was under $12k

Dan Hintz
11-10-2011, 6:29 AM
It's a personal definition thing, but when I think of "western" lasers, I think of RF-excited metal tubes... DC-excited glass tubes say "old technology" to me, even if the rest of the machine is built to a high quality.

matthew knott
11-10-2011, 7:53 AM
We had the synrad uk rep in the other day, he only came for a coffee as i worked with him in his old job for 15 years, we have an epilog we got second hand and the tube is not running a full spec, he said a tube would cost about 11k $18 us!!!!! I asked him how they justifed their price, didnt get a straight answer, just the usual BS about releability and r&d costs. If you open one up theres not much in there, its not like a fiber laser that needs many millions of $$$ for fiber drawing towers and the like plus lots of expensive electroncis and pump diodes and qswitches. It would be intersting to know what there material cost is for making a rf metal tube laser but at i guess i think the margins would make your eyes water. I know they have to run very expensive companys and pay high salaries etc and they probably overall dont make a massive profit. I would say its just a short matter of time before they start making there own RF metal tube lasers. I guess if a glass tube laser produces the same beam for a fraction of the cost then "old technology" aint so bad.

Dan Hintz
11-10-2011, 8:52 AM
he said a tube would cost about 11k $18 us!!!!!
That is insane pricing, and pretty much screams price gouging on the rep's part (or his company). My entire 60W ULS machine didn't cost much more than that delivered.

As far as materials cost, you can make up our own mind, but here's a basic breakdown:
1) Aluminum tube, CNC machined and passivated for a deep oxide layer... likely the most expensive piece, mostly because aluminum isn't the cheapest material. But that gives you an idea as to what the "biggest" cost component is.
2) RF PCB/components, control PCB/components... not much more than $50 here, and that's in small quantities.
3) Optics. I'll be generous and say a couple hundred $s.
4) Gas. Dirt cheap, especially in quantity... a few $s.
5) Various wiring, insulated coils, gaskets, etc.

A couple thousand in parts/labor would be a very reasonable upper estimate.

Rodne Gold
11-10-2011, 8:57 AM
I should have used the word "mainstream" rather than "western".
At the end of it all , both the glass tubes and metal RF tubes I have used seem to do the job ... as to how long the glass tubes do it reliably remains to be seen.. at $170 for a cheapy 80w and $450 for a RECI , its not a painful experience to get a new tube... I can testify that in my workshop and experience , the RF tubes are neither as reliable or as long lived as the mnfgrs claim .

Dan Hintz
11-10-2011, 9:08 AM
the RF tubes are neither as reliable or as long lived as the mnfgrs claim .
Agreed... and I hope you keep us updated on when the glass tubes start to lose power.

Martin Boekers
11-10-2011, 2:17 PM
Matthew, I came across an Epilog Radius from 1998 a few weeks ago. It was in realy nice shape
and was told it was working two months previous when unplugged. It has a Synrad Series 48 25 watt tube
in it. Checking around in case it didn't work, Epilog wanted $4000, PhotoVac said aver repair/refill was about $1250.00
I didn't price a new Synrad tube, but their website says tube life > 45,000hrs (www.synrad.com/Products/48-Series.htm (http://www.synrad.com/Products/48-Series.htm))
If my math is correct that translates running 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week to a bit over 20 years! I fired this up a few days
ago and the tube is burning bright! May replace the lens and a few mirrors but according to Synrad I should get more than 15 years
with it at the rate it was used over the last ten! Don't know how accurate the info is , maybe someone with Synrad exp can chime in.
So if your tube needs work check PhotoVac out. Which tube the rep quote on?

Jiten Patel
11-10-2011, 4:13 PM
I have a Coherent Deos in my laser - and I was told 40-45000 hours - seems too good to be true - that's a long time!

Martin Boekers
11-10-2011, 4:51 PM
I have a Coherent Deos in my laser - and I was told 40-45000 hours - seems too good to be true - that's a long time!

Actually that probably is right! Forty - 45,000! :)

George D Gabert
11-10-2011, 5:15 PM
It is my understanding that the 45,000 hours is total time you have the tube, not just on time of the laser, as the tube looses gas enven when the tube is not firing. Therefore 45,000 hours is only 5.13 years (45,000/24/365).

That is not very long in my mind.

GDG

matthew knott
11-10-2011, 5:41 PM
Seldom do the figures manufacturers use relate to what the customer might really experience, they use all kinds of extrapolated data and quote MTFB figures. A good example of this is when we started using fibre lasers they where quoting 100'000 hours MTFB, i asked if they had run any for this long and was told no the design is only 6 months old !! they just run them hard till they fail then calculate how long they should work if run at the correct running conditions.
We can get our laser recharged for about $2k so its not to bad and we dont use the machine much anyway we got it on a whim so 45 watts has done everything we need so far.We where quoted on a 80 watt laser.