Brace sweep vs. Bit Size?

[Jim Neeley]

I've found myself eyeing old hand braces lately and notice that they come in everything from a 6" sweep to a 14" and larger. I'm assuming the "right" sweep depends upon the size of the bit, the hardness of the wood and the size of the bit???

If that is so, my work is in kiln-dried hardwood, including hard maple, walnut, mahogany, and occasionally a piece of dried pine or coco.

My holes aren't huge, generally in the 1/4" to 1/2" size, occasionally up to an inch or so and if I have "production drilling" to do I have a drill press, electric and cordless drills.

What sized braces would you go for? I have the opportunity to get a set of three 730-series M-F's in 6", 8" and 10" sweeps. Assuming I were to go for these, should I consider anything larger or would these suffice?

I know the answer is "it depends" but I'm looking to gather opinions here.

I'm in my 50's, no longer the spry 22-year old and plan on being in this for a long time. I'm also trying to acquire the majority of my tools while I'm still working a lot of overtime and so have a tool budget. <g>

Jim

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I love a 6" for driving screws - in fact, I don't think I've taken the adaptor out of the brace in a while. I use my 8 inch for most of day to day tasks, the 10" is nice for other things. When you start getting to larger holes, something larger than the 10" would be nice, though. For 1 inch holes, I often switch to a hole saw rather than an auger bit when working in hardwood - it's a little slower, but easier for me to turn my 10 inch brace.

[Jack Curtis]

Every now and then the sweep is limited by space available.

Jack

[Richard Darjes]

I have a 14" brace that I love to have hanging on the wall. However, I am 5' 7" tall and I find that I cannot swing the brace well - my arms are too short. It is too hard to keep it steady while trying to drill a straight hole. I really like my 12" brace for the bigger bits.

[Archie England]

So, we're agreed: you must have one of each :)I do have 6" through 12" and will eventually get a 14". For me, 10" braces are the common go-to. It's got the best balance along with torque. Like above, once I started using a 6" for driving screws, the others now make holes.

[Jim Koepke]

I have an 8" brace that does most of the work.

For heavier work maybe to 10". I do have some bits bigger than an inch and that is when the 12" brace comes out.

I would buy all three of the sizes you mention.

When I see braces at yard sales or such, I have to slap myself to not buy them. I have more than I can use right now and should only buy them if they are a different size.

jtk

[Bill Houghton]

10" is by far the commonest size I find in my travels. In my experience*, this will handle up to 3/4" in most woods if the bit is sharp. I do have some 12" braces, and one working 14" brace. Realistically in my shop, by the time the 14" brace would come out, electrons would be dying.

*age 63, and far from spry.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Definitely get the 6", 8", and 10". Add a 12" and perhaps a 14" later. The 6" sounds small, but keep a countersink in it.

If you fully catch the disease, you'll also end up with a 16" (or two), and perhaps the Fray/Spofford 17" (or two).

I've never found an 18" or 20". My wallet thanks me.

[gounthar frankfurt]

16 or 17"? I'm drooling...
I have from 6" to 12", but would like to get a 14" and a bigger one if possible.
I sometimes get the bit kind of frozen in the chuck when I apply to much torque (to bore a 2 3/8 " hole for example).
I have been told a T-Handle auger would do better for this job.
What are the 17" used for? My 12" is mostly used with my hollow auger, but would do better with a bigger one.

[Eric Brown]

I have noticed that auger bits (for braces) stop at about the 2" size.
Larger than that are the regular augers and they all have tee handles.
My 3 1/2" auger has a 26" tee handle.
They did make bigger hand augers too.
The size of brace comes down to torque vs speed.
Braces 10" and smaller have decent torque and speed for bits up to about an inch.
Above that may require a larger brace.
It sometimes depends on the strength of the user. Or the wood.
Another consideration is how the bit is installed in the brace.
Ideally when boring larger holes you want the brace handle to be in a position that the torque is
maximized when the bit is cutting across the grain.
A ratcheting brace allows you to always be in the maximum torque part of the swing, but it is also slower.
(Note: When your hand is changing direction at the top and botom of the swing you have minimum strength.)
Tee handles give better leverage than braces and the ratcheting tee's can be really nice.
Some bits, like Forstners and center, don't require as much torque and work better with faster swing braces (6"-8").
By spinning these bits with less pressure, they make smoother holes but also take longer.

Eric

[gounthar frankfurt]

Thanks Eric. I can't use Forstner bits with a brace, they jump all around the job.:mad:
What's your trick to get them boring and not jumping?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Gounthar -

What do you mean by "jumping"? I've never had any trouble with forstner bits in my braces. The only issue is unlike auger bits, you need to supply a bit of downward pressure to keep them cutting, as they obviously have no leadscrew. Some of my braces hold these round shanked bit better than others. My Yankee brace does a particularly nice job - the ball bearing head makes it easier to really get it tight on the bit.

I have a couple of bits that look like they have hex shanks, but really just have three flats ground on them, not 6 flats. While a six-sided hex bit will work in a two jaw brace, these bits won't, as you'll never get them to center!

[Bill Moser]

I haven't had a problem with Forstners either, even in end grain. Like Joshua said, you need to keep pressure on it. If the bit wanders a little at the very start, you might just make an indentation with a fine nail set, or use a gimlet, to make sure the center of the bit stays in place.

[Eric Brown]

The very first Fostners (very rare) have a solid rim thats fairly short. They work great in a short sweep brace.
You can even bore square holes with them. (Lay them on their side). Problem back then though was the bits were being used primarily by gunmakers and they were putting them into powered machines (Steam or waterwheel). They were burning them up.

So Forstner modifies his design by making the rim thicker and cutting a slot on each side so they would run cooler.

In my opinion the second type, doesn't handle as well in a brace for angled holes, but they can be started square to the board OK. (They also have square tapered shanks for braces.)


The later makers started to tweek the design by adding extra cutters around the rim. These are harder to control by hand. The shafts became round too.

Finally they turned the edge into a sawtooth configuration. These work the worse in a hand brace.

Note that except for the earliest styles, all the later Forstner bits are intended for drill presses.

See my post on spirals if interested: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?155691-Turning-spirals-on-drillpress.&highlight=

Enjoy. Eric

[Chuck Nickerson]

16 or 17"? I'm drooling...
What are the 17" used for?

I've used a 16" ratcheting or 17" Fray/Spofford when using an expansion bit to cut large diameter holes.
Last use was mounting the BenchCrafted wagon vise in my split-top Roubo bench.
A 12" or 14" might have done it, but with the 17" it was not a big effort.

[gounthar frankfurt]

Note that except for the earliest styles, all the later Forstner bits are intended for drill presses.
I see. My Forstner bits are new ones from Axminster.
I don't have any problems with the shank moving, I try to use Forstner bits with universal chuck braces. Even with a pre-drilled hole with a gimlet, I can't get the Forstner bit to bore a hole. It just keeps wandering. I will stop using it, and will switch back to my expansion bit.:(