Need forum members help

[Douglas Hall]

I'm building a 14x20 shop in the spring for my son and I. We will be generally building cabinets, shelves, dressers and other small projects. I know that I will need a table saw,miter saw,router and table, but what else would you recommend? I'm looking to do this right the first time and don't want to waste money on equipment that I won't need. I've done some searches on the forum and would appreciate any help that could be provided. Thank You, in advance for your advice.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Douglas, you'll get a wealth of answers, and since you didn't specify what sort of materials you'll be using, it's tough to advise.

Here goes a start

- you missed tool #1, dust collection. I have a small townhouse basement shop with an Oneida cyclone

- I have two main machines, a Hammer A3-31 jointer/planer for solid stock surfacing and a Hammer B3 Winner saw/shaper for cutting, profiling, molding etc.

- I have a drill press for drilling holes and a bandsaw for resawing and cutting curves

I make a mix of stuff, mostly solid wood cabinets with some sheet goods work as well.

I don't have a router table (I use the saw/shaper) and I don't have a hand held router or a mitre saw.

A couple of electric sanders.

Next is hand tools, chisels, planes, gouges, cabinet scrapers, squares, marking gauges, steel rulers, marking knives, etc etc.

You'll need a bench of some sort, ranging from a sturdy table to a real cabinet makers bench depending upon your work.

Adequate lighting, a bunch of T8 flourescent fixtures probably.

An exhaust fan for finishing work

Regards, Rod.

[Douglas Hall]

Thank You for your help Rod!! You've given me a great start!! I'll be using both hardwood and plywood on future builds.

[Jerome Hanby]

If you can pour a concrete pad outside your shop (preferable with a double or garage door opening on to it), placing your table saw, planer, and jointer (maybe router table too) on good mobile stands and wheeling them out to use will cut down on the dust and give you more room to work (especially on big stock). If you are going to be using plywood, I'd get a track saw, some jig like the PSI PPS or other guide system, or build a saw board. Couple that with your circular and buy some 2x4s and a pair of banquet table legs to build a sacrificial cutting table (Google cutting table to see easy plans) and you can save your self a lot of work breaking down plywood. Plus all that is portable enough that you can set it up at the back of your vehicle and pull sheets directly on to the table and break them down before you carry them to the shop.

Also, you might look for a used Shopsmith on CL. I would never recommend it as a table saw, but the other functions are good to excellent and it can server in place of a whole shop full of tools. Think it occupies about 8 square feet.

[Jim Rimmer]

I'm going to make two assumptions and then give you my 2 cents. 1.You will be using rough lumber and 2. This is a hobby, not a business.

Here's the equipment I would suggest along with an assortment of the appropriate hand tools:
Table Saw
Band Saw (14" for resawing)
Jointer
Planer
Router table
Drill Press
Dust Collection System
Hand Held Routers
Drills

I planned it all out once and if I could go into a Grizzly store and get whatever I wanted, I could outfit a hobby shop pretty well for about $2500 to $3000. Probably would need that much again for hand tools and hand power tools. So for $5000 to $6000 you could get a pretty good start and then buy items as needed. Of course, those numbers exclude the shop itself, wiring, dust collection ductwork, tables and benches. But with the building provided, $10K would make a great shop for me and you could probably spend less buying used and looking for sales and you certainly don't need to buy all Grizzly.

[Myk Rian]

Band saw
Jointer
Planer

[glenn bradley]

Doug, you may have noticed that you are the only one to have a miter saw on your list so far. this is an area of discussion as there are two (if not more) distinct camps on this; "you must have a CMS or a RAS or both" and the "Don't need one" camps. I have used my mitersaw a couple times in the last three years but, both times were to do trim work at someone else's house. For furniture making I don't need one BUT, that does not mean you don't ;-) My list in order of importance:

Dust collection
Bandsaw
Jointer
Planer
Router table
Tablesaw
. . . all that other stuff; chisels, planes, screwdrivers, hand drill, freehand routers, jigsaw, etc.

Have fun and enjoy the ride together. Assembling a shop is a wonderfully exciting time.

[Douglas Hall]

Jerome- Great idea about a pad outside! What size would you recommend? I will look into the Makita or Festool track saw. I like the idea of a shopsmith, unfortunately not next year though. Thank You!!

Jim- Finished Lumber will be easiest for me to get and this will be a hobby for me and my son. Thank You for your additions and cost estimates!!

Myk- Thank You for the recommendations!! I'm starting to see a theme.

Glenn- I chose the miter saw so that I could use it for trim work in my house as well as woodworking. Any particular brands of planes and chisels I should be looking at?

Again Thank You all for taking time out of your day to help me!! I greatly appreciate it!!

[paul cottingham]

If I started again, the first thing I would buy would be a good dust collector. Then I would buy a good band-saw, then a planer, and a drill press. Next I would get a low angle jack plane with three angles of blade, and a low angle block, then some saws. throw in measuring tools, and chisels, and I think you can make some decent furniture. Oh, and -gasp- a router and router table. (I would eventually get rid of them, tho'.)

[Jerome Hanby]

Concrete is cheap compared to everything else, I'd pour as wide as the shop and out as far as practical. You can always expand your shop over all or part of it when (not if) you decide the shop is too small <g>. Also, if you make it large enough to setup a 10 x 10 pop up canopy with walls (or at least bug nets), you can have a dedicated finishing room that you only set up when needed. YMMV, but I paid $650 for my Shopsmith Mark V with the Jointer and I am sure I could have made a better deal if I had looked a little longer... Paid about $125 for the bandsaw, so I had $800 (including the gas I used picking them up) for drill press, lathe, band saw, jointer, disc sander, horizontal boring machine ,and a table saw (that I've never used). Also a good platform for shop made gizmos like drum sanders...


Jerome- Great idea about a pad outside! What size would you recommend? I will look into the Makita or Festool track saw. I like the idea of a shopsmith, unfortunately not next year though. Thank You!!

Jim- Finished Lumber will be easiest for me to get and this will be a hobby for me and my son. Thank You for your additions and cost estimates!!

Myk- Thank You for the recommendations!! I'm starting to see a theme.

Glenn- I chose the miter saw so that I could use it for trim work in my house as well as woodworking. Any particular brands of planes and chisels I should be looking at?

Again Thank You all for taking time out of your day to help me!! I greatly appreciate it!!

[Ken Shoemaker]

If your considering a tablesaw, consider a router lift to replace the left-hand wing of the saw. A real space saver and very effective. A little pricey though. You'll appreciate good dust collection.

[John Fabre]

Clamps and more clamps.

[Joe Angrisani]

Doug.... I have one word: Craigslist. Craigslist is your friend, especially when time is on your side as in your case. You don't give your location, but I can tell you from experience that even a smaller Craigslist "market" the size of Denver is big enough to provide all the items you need at a great price.

Nothing beats buying used in my opinion. The other guy takes the depreciation hit, and I swear 50% of the equipment I bought was from someone who thought they'd get into woodworking but didn't. Virtually new. Full-on 3hp cyclones with ductwork and blast gates for $900. Large bed 8" jointers for $400. Left tilt Unisaws for $900 with blades and a dado set and a 3-1/4hp router in the extension table included in the deal. A 17" drill press for $175. The list goes on, but utilize Craigslist when outfitting your shop.

[Shawn Russell]

Douglas,

I would also highly recommend visiting some shops and also wood stores. Spend a few hours roaming around and asking lots of questions. The one item I would add is knowledge.

I have bought very few tools that I will not use.. but a few of my tools I wish I had gotten as combo machines or perhaps bought larger tools. The main one is the jointer/planer.. but since you said you will be working with finished wood.. that may not be that big of an issue for you.

Cheers

[Rich Engelhardt]

I got into WW'ing from scratch about 5 years ago. I started with a few "home owner" "DIY" type tools and zero real experience beyond some household type things.
As a result, I've had a lot of experience making mistakes on what I bought & have had to replace a lot of things. Hindsight being 20/20.....

It all starts with one thing. A known straight edge. After that comes a known 90* angle.
The very first tool I'd suggest would be a good combination square. Starrett makes one of the best.
Lee Valley has a failry reasonable straight edge that's highly regarded. There's quite a few threads here on the topic of a straight edge.

After getting those two out of the way..

One thing that improved the quaility of what I was making by a significant degree was - a cheap Harbor Freight digital caliper.
My first one was the cheap plastic 6" one.
Later on I added one of the better fractional models.

[Carl Beckett]

I started out in woodworking one project at a time. I bought tools as I felt was needed for the particular project at hand. I didnt really know where the hobby would take me, so treated it as a journey.

Another time I helped my step father outfit a shop for his retirement - and all the replies here are good ones (he knew he wanted to have trees milled and air dry, and I knew the types of projects he was interested in and could advise accordingly)

So spend some time making a list of the PROJECTS you might want to do. (or if you want to spend the bulk of your time building and outfitting a shop, that in and of itself can be the project)

DONT FORGET - some budget for improving skills. Books, classes, seminars, etc etc. The more hands on the better. I had a friend that started out by going to a weeklong retreat building a kayak. He loved it and got an idea of whether that was the type of woodworking he wanted to do.

I like to read read read when learning something, followed by test try learn, repeat. Volunteer to make stuff for the school/church/other in your area - that will give some focus and support, likely having others join in and learn from each other.

Just some thoughts - the advice here has been great as usual.

[Paul Symchych]

I could tell you what I would get but that will have no relevance to what you build or your work style. You are starting with the most important and hardest thing to change... plenty of floor space. From there a work bench and the bare minimum of power tools will get you going. Buying one of everything on day one will guarantee money spent for tools you will rarely use. As things progress you can add whatever tools seem necessary. Watch Craig's list for good used tools to keep costs down.

[Larry Browning]

The good thing about these kind of questions is that you will get lots of advice. The bad thing is that much of that advice will be in conflict. Ultimately you will need to decide what will work best for you.
With that said, when I first got started "furnishing" my shop, the only tool I had was my fathers Shop Smith. As you probably know the base unit had 4 tools, table saw, lathe, drill press, and disc sander. They market it as 5, saying the drill press in the horizontal position a separate tool, but that is a stretch in my opinion. Any way, it also had the joiner and band saw attachment. I quickly found that the table saw was not really usable, and the joiner was a joke. So I purchased a real table saw and joiner. However, the rest of the tools work pretty well for me. So my suggestion is to look into finding a used Shop Smith with a few attachments. They seem to always be available on ebay and Craig's List.
Just one more option to consider. It has worked out for me, but your mileage may vary.

[Jim Rimmer]

One more thing I would add: You don't mention your experience level so I hope I'm not telling you something you already know, but when buying router bits, stay away from the "bargain deals" with many bits you'll never use and the rest of questionable quality. Buy specific bits as you need them and buy really good ones. Same thing with saw blades; buy what you need and buy quality.

[Douglas Hall]

Paul – I think I’m going to use your idea of buying tools on a as needed basis and placing huge importance of dust collection. Thank You
Jim- I will by quality once, as you have stated , Thanks
Larry- Thanks for the advice, I’m definitely going to scour Craigslist for the Shopsmith. I really like what it has to offer.
Carl- Thanks for the advice. Like you I look at this as a journey with my son. I definitely will budget money towards education and furthering our craft.

Rich- Thank You very much for your thoughts and detailed descriptions as I’m gaining a lot of knowledge from you guys.
Shawn- I definitely going to make some visits, Thank You
Joe- You definitely have scored some good deals!! Hopefully I can do as well as you have. Thanks
John- I’m going to take your recommendation as from my reading you can never have enough clamps
Ken-I really like the idea of the router table mounted to the table saw. Thank You.
Jerome- Thanks again, for some great advice!! I’m definitely going to incorporate it into the design of the shop and concrete work.

[Jerome Hanby]

I guess like most things, if you never need the function then you don't appreciate it. The horizontal boring is the one Shopsmith function that can't be readily replaced. I'll keep it for that function and sanding long after I've replaced the other functionality. For long stock, there is just no better was to easily and accurately drill that kind of hole.

[Andrew Joiner]

We will be generally building cabinets, shelves, dressers and other small projects..

Hi Douglas,

I'd first ask, are the products for you or for sale? I wouldn't sell my work without product liability. You may want business insurance that covers other things as well. Insurance can get expensive so I'd plan for it in advance.

What type of designs? Modern stuff may require simpler tools and skills, no bandsaw if it's all straight lines . Some traditional designs call for a lathe and carving tools.

When I started in the 70's,I made good money with just a vertical panel saw and radial arm saw for machines . The table saw was a welcome addition as I got more work. I suggest you keep it simple. Read up and visualize your process of work.

Unless money is no object,start with the least tools you can and add them as needed.

[Douglas Hall]

Andrew- These projects will be for myself,family and friends. I will never say never, but there no plan for going into business. As of right now I have no plans to do any carving, but who knows. Thanks for your time and advice.

[Larry Browning]

I guess like most things, if you never need the function then you don't appreciate it. The horizontal boring is the one Shopsmith function that can't be readily replaced. I'll keep it for that function and sanding long after I've replaced the other functionality. For long stock, there is just no better was to easily and accurately drill that kind of hole.
I never said it wasn't a useful function, I just think it is a stretch to call it a separate tool from the drill press. At one point I thought I would try to replace the SS with dedicated tools. when I was looking at drill presses, I realized that in order to get all the functionality I had with the SS drill press I was going to have to spend major dollars. As a table saw it truely sucks, but some other stuff, not so much.

[glenn bradley]

Glenn- I chose the miter saw so that I could use it for trim work in my house as well as woodworking. Any particular brands of planes and chisels I should be looking at?

I bought a set of 6 Marples chisels at Costco back when they still stocked such things thinking that they would get me started. I have acquired others costing more or for special purposes but, the Marples are still my daily users. Second most used are some Lee Valleys. Don't forget some rasps and files.

As to planes; that will start a bigger discussion than talking chisels. I lack the desire to fettle my hand tools as I am primarily a tailed-tool guy. The Lee Valley/Veritas planes have been very good to me. I get by with a medium shoulder plane, a low angle block plane with a couple different irons and handles and a low angle jack plane which is primarily for the shooting board. I have some older Stanleys in various states of grace that fill out my plane stable. Others will have additional or differing opinions (brother, will they)so I'm sure you get additional feedback on that. I find that I waste a lot less money buying things at a bargain price that I think I will use and don't as opposed to having an actual need and buying the proper tool at a reasonable price when the time comes. Just my .02

[Peter Quinn]

"what else would you recommend?"

Well, it takes so many things to get to the point that you can control the process of machining wood into the objects you may want. It can be overwhelming at first. There is so much advice floating around, so many methods of work to choose from, and lots of opinions about which gear is best. My best advice and hard earned opinion is start simple, add the things you really need to do the work you choose over time as you need them. For a long time I had a small table saw, a decent band saw, a SCMS (makita is my preference, but there are many good ones available), a RAS, and a two routers (one in a table, one freehand). The shape of your space may determine what you can fit to some extent. Given you are building a shop the tools and shop can be to some extent designed around each other to be symbiotic.

Ceiling height: I have a shop with 7'2" ceilings. This was beyond my control. If I could choose, my ceilings would be 9'-10' minimum. I like the extra head room for lots of things including storage, and it may be worth considering versus an 8' ceiling height if space and plans allow?

Dust collection: Dust is dangerous. Its a good idea to build a good dust extraction system into your thinking from the beginning. It should be convenient and effective so you will always use it and keep things healthy.

Lighting: You need lots of light to see. I took me a long time to get enough lights in my shop, but I'm a bit slow. The setting up shop books have charts to guide you based on ceiling height and layout. Follow them. It will take more light than you may imagine to create a pleasant work space.

Jointer/Planer: You can certainly make things without these. But not having the ability to flatten and thickness wood will limit the quality of your work in many ways. The 90 degree references are critical to most cabinetry and wood working. Even most curved work starts off square for the purposes of joinery. Flattening by hand will limit the quantity of your work, which may be acceptable to you or not? Either way, if you cannot create flat surfaces and square corners everything will be harder. The jointer/planer team gives you a much greater degree of control over the products you will be manipulating.

Sharpening station: Before you buy your first hand tool (or at least simultaneously) you need a way to sharpen cutting edges. Even Lie Nielson recommends "honing" all blades prior to use. Sharpening can take some time to master. And like most things in wood working, there are a dizzying variety of methods, techniques and tools to help you get sharp. Pick one, master it, stay sharp. Your sharpening technique or method may evolve with your skills over time, but it helps to develop a usable baseline quickly. Don't think of sharpening and hand tools as something that gets in the way of your wood working. It is part of the core of your skills and critical to your success and growth. I have seen guys set up a router, make a jig for said router, struggle with tuning said jig and eventually resorting to some form of power sander to accomplish a task that could quickly and accurately have been handled with a sharp hand tool.

I'd better stop there in the spirit of keeping it simple. One last bit? Most good projects start with a drawing, a cut list, possibly a list of steps to delineate the process. Building and equipping your shop is a very big project that deserves a good drawing and some accurate notes.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I thought of something else I did for the first few years.

I asked questions here and made lists of useful small dollar items, then put myself on sort of a "one per trip" plan.

Each time I went to Lowes or Home Depot - or anywhere else for that matter, I made it a point to pick up a few dollars worth of the odds and ends that you need.
Wood screws, glue, two faced tape, locking casters, c-clamps, acid brushes, chip brushes, pencils - lots and lots and lots of pencils, tape measures, sandpaper, sanding disks,,,,etc..
Stuff in the $5 to $20 price range.

Amazon was another good source. I had a list of small dollar items & when my wife needed something to make the $25.00 free shipping, I just added whatever was needed from that list.

[Jerome Hanby]

[QUOTE=Rich Engelhardt;1805620

Amazon was another good source. I had a list of small dollar items & when my wife needed something to make the $25.00 free shipping, I just added whatever was needed from that list.[/QUOTE]

The Amazon wish list is your friend. Ours is filled with books and other small items that we would like to have or could use but not in desparate need of having right this second. Use them to fill out that free shipping. Of course, if you buy Amazon Prime that becomes a non-issue...

[Douglas Hall]

You guys are great!! I have taken notes from each post and I continue to make lists and redesign my shop drawings. Keep the advice coming and I hope down the road that I will be able to repay you guys.

[Tom Walz]

Storage, storage, storage. Foam lined drawers. I am really learning to love "Write on plastic bags". The 4 mil are heavy enough for screws. Essential for parts when working on a machine. Lots of something for storing screws, nails, etc.

I'm a big fan of buying it when you need it. Always buy a few extra screws, washers, etc. Have a tape measure bin. My tape measures develop feet and move around at night. If I gather them up regularly I can usually find one when I need it.

A really good "T". Buy a couple really good, really classy measuring tools. They are accurate, last forever and more fun to use.

Buy some of the nail and screw assortments unless you already have a coffee can full of odds and ends.

If you have kids or grandkids get them a some cheap tools for their very own. My son's idea and worth passing on.

More storage. After 40 some years my shop is full of odd tools I once used for a repair or a strange build. I feel incredibly proud and happy when I can fish an odd part out of a coffee can and find the right tool for a quick repair.

Mostly, I would look at putting a shop together as part of the fun. Build it as you need it. You can always rebuild.

Get "Fine Woodworking Tools & Shops Annual Issue" for ideas.