choosing stile/rail bits ????

[Rick Moyer]

I am thinking about making new cabinet doors for the kitchen this winter. I have never made stile and rail raised panel doors so I need some advice. I have the big Milwaukee router so thats not a problem spinning the bits, but how do I go about choosing the bit set? Should I buy a coping sled? Is there a tutorial someone recommends? Would also appreciate any tips/tricks.

[joe milana]

The first door bits I ever bought were a freud 3pc kits from woodcraft. It included the stile, rail, and panel raising bits. It also came with a nice poster size instruction sheet. The instructions will walk you through making a door, including plans for a coping sled. My first attempt was a success. The bits should include shims to adjust the T & G fit, but I don't believe anything was mentioned in the documentation. A sled (even a simple home made one) is a must, and a good featherboard setup for your sticking cuts.

[Dale Cruea]

I agree with Joe. A sled or something for the rails.
I used my miter gage from my TS. My router is on my table saw.
I backed up the rails with a piece of scrap. If your rails are narrow you will need to clamp them so they don't slide into your bit.
The Styles I don't need one.
I hope I got the rails and styles correct. I have bad time keeping them straight. Styles = the up and down piece. Rails = the cross piece.
Also a 3 piece set is better in my view. I bought a cheaper 1 piece router bit and it is a royal PITA.
Once you make a door it all becomes clear.

[Gil Knowles]

Rick
Go to the following Freud Canada web site and you will find 2 articles for making raised panel doors which are quite good.
Their are also a number of other artcles which are also good.
http://www.freud.ca/English/Pages/Resources/Instructions/Instructions.html

Gil

[Sal Kurban]

I am going to vote for Marc Sommerfeld's cabinetmaking DVDs and bit sets. Marc produces the best bit sets for the price and I have used his system to produce my entire kitchen cabinets. I have no relation to Marc who is based in Iowa - other than I went to grad school in Iowa :). His web site is

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/

I believe he includes his DVDs for free if you buy the bit sets from him. He used to have his bit sets made in Europe and they are not the junk typical of other cheap places. He often demonstrates his system in woodworking shows and that is how I got to know it.

Sal.

[Larry Frank]

I have become much better at rail and stile doors but not until I made a few not so good ones. One of the biggest helps that I found is to plane all of the material to exactly the same thickness. Being off a few thousandths does not sound like much but can mean the difference between a lot of sanding or very little.

I think that using a sled is critical both to be accurate and for safety. I looked at a bunch of them and then decided to make my own using a couple of hold down clamps.

[John M. Johnson]

I have to agree on the planing. Once I set up the final thickness, I leave the planer there until I am done w/ the project.

As for the sets? I swear by Freud (plus they are pretty reasonable on Amazon).

Also, when doing raised panels, I try to use the TS to remove as much wood as possible (I do a test raise cut on a cheap 2x4, tilt the TS blade to cut as much of the profile as possible from the 2x4, then start running the panels through the TS first). I know it sounds like a pain, but it really cuts down on those big bit cuts. Plus, my raised panel bit is always the first one to dull.

[Roger Jensen]

I also recommend the Sommerfeld bits. He has an interesting strategy of matched bit length - you cut the rails and stiles without changing the router depth. As Sal mentioned, Marc hits the woodworking shows and you can see him use his bits (and his table).

[Bill Huber]

I have a Milwaukee rail and stile set that I got on sale for $39, it is a very good little set. I use it for my practice work to understand just how everything worked together and what changes affected what.

I bought a sled from Eagle which I would not recommend, the base is just to thin and will buckle if clamped to tight. This will give you all kinds of problems getting things set up. I did change the base to a 1/2" phenolic which took care of the problem. With that said I do recommend a sled, it make things much better and easier to work with.

I went to HD and got some poplar, run it though the planner and then ripped it in thirds, crosscut it to about 10" long and used this for may testing a learning work.

You can use the 10 long stiles 4 times to do testing on, just don't cut all the way along it, just cut enough so you have room to test the rail.

I now have a 3 wing Woodline cabinet set that I am very happy with, I did have a little problem with one of the bits but sent it back and they sent me a new set.

As has been stated, all boards must be the same thickness and flat, take your time and understand how things work, what affects what and you will have no problems, it is much easier then it looks.

[Rick Moyer]

Thanks all for the advice and tips. I think I'll probably eventually get the Infinity sled. Just have to decide on what router bit set. It's hard to tell from just the drawings how the panel profile really would look. I think I might like a more ornate profile than just a cove, but maybe not. I also think a back cutter to keep the panel flush would be best.

[Doug Colombo]

I bought the Woodline set and have had no issues with it. I have only make a few doors to to date, but they came out good. The set I bought also comes with a glue lock, door lock, and door lip bits, but I believe they have a three bit set also. I bought mine at a wood show for $100 (including the dvd) - ask and see if he will match the show price. :)

http://www.woodline.com/p-1768-6-piece-cabinet-set.aspx

212409

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have a Whiteside set. I like them. I also made my own sled. One thing I would really reccomend is a pair of Grippers. They saved my hand/fingers from a kick back from my raised panel bit. The bit tore up the Gripper. I would hate to imagine what would have happened to my fingers, should they have gotten hit by the panel bit.....
I would not reccomend those "combo" bits that you swap the cutters to convert from rail to stile and back. Lots of set up time, not the best match, if you don't spend time. If you make a mistake and need another rali and/or stile, you're back to the tedious setup again. I think it's money well spent for the pair.

[Curt Harms]

I've had a set from MLCS for years. They work okay but I'll have the adjustable set from Freud one day. The tenon of most R&S sets is 3/8". The adjustable Freud set can make the tenon any length you want, including making it a bridle joint. The groove width can also be adjusted for true 1/4" or a bit less for metric plywood. The downside to the set is I'd have to find a way to make the mortises deeper if I went with longer tenons. Perhaps the longer tenons are not necessary but it seems like a nice option to have. The Freud panel raising bits are unique as well in having 2 cutters with positive angle of attack (forward leaning) and 2 with negative (back leaning). It seems like that might save a fair bit of sanding on coarse grained woods like oak & ash. They ain't cheap. Are they worth the premium? I guess that depends.

http://www.freudtools.com/t-PremierRailandStile.aspx
http://www.freudtools.com/p-97-quadra-cut-raised-panel-bits.aspx

These designs are unique to Freud AFAIK.

[Jeff Monson]

I'd put in another good word for the Sommerfeld or the Freud sets. Sommerfeld's have a video, Freud has a really nice reference sheet. Both are good quality cutters. Make sure to pick a profile you like and cut away. The coping sled does not have to be anything fancy, its something that can be made very easily.

[Stew Hagerty]

This is an interesting thread, lots of good information. Here's another question... Verticle or horizontal set? I've got a PC690 so,like Rick, power is not an issue. I'm talking from a pure ease of use and performance standpoint. Also, I have an Incra LS table and it comes with a tall panel accessory so that is not an issue either.

[Matt Jutte]

All,
Do you have any experience with the Timberline sets made by Amana? Woodwerks carries them at a comparable cost to the sommerfields and I like to buy local any chance I get.

[Gene Waara]

....something for the rails.
I used my miter gage from my TS. My router is on my table saw.
I backed up the rails with a piece of scrap.......

Exactly what I do. I bought some cherry and maple from a ww'er that was downsizing to a new house and didn't want to move the lumber. He also had a Rockler 3 piece set he had used one time for a small project. $129 set for $40. It really worked slick but it took a few passes on practice boards to perfect the height and depth of cut. I also agree the boards must be of the identical thickness. Also, I seemed to have the best success when the boards were exactly 3/4" thick.

[Victor Robinson]

This is an interesting thread, lots of good information. Here's another question... Verticle or horizontal set? I've got a PC690 so,like Rick, power is not an issue. I'm talking from a pure ease of use and performance standpoint. Also, I have an Incra LS table and it comes with a tall panel accessory so that is not an issue either.

I'm confused. You mean you have the 3hp PC 7518? The PC 690 is a 1.75hp router - would think it's a bit underpowered to be spinning the large panel raisers.

[Victor Robinson]

Someone needs to make an online resource that allows you to see the resulting doors made with different rail/stile/panel combinations. Does such a thing exist? Sure would make bit-choosing easier for those of us that don't have a library of cabinetmaking bits!

[Curt Harms]

I'm confused. You mean you have the 3hp PC 7518? The PC 690 is a 1.75hp router - would think it's a bit underpowered to be spinning the large panel raisers.

Not to mention that many 690s are not variable speed. A 690 spinning a 3.5" horizonal panel raising bit at 25,000rpm or so would be ......... interesting:eek:. A vertical panel raiser would likely work okay. The trick with a vertical panel raiser would be to create a fence where you can hold the panel on edge and not have bumps or varying depth of cut. You also couldn't do curved panels with a vertical panel raiser.

[Stew Hagerty]

I'm confused. You mean you have the 3hp PC 7518? The PC 690 is a 1.75hp router - would think it's a bit underpowered to be spinning the large panel raisers.

Oops, yes 7518 is my table mounted router. I do actually have the 690, but I use it for hand-held operations only. Sorry for the confusion, I rarely actually "see" my big router since I finished the cabinet and I simply misspoke.


So, any opinions on the different bit styles and the rails & stiles they produce?

[Stew Hagerty]

All,
Do you have any experience with the Timberline sets made by Amana? Woodwerks carries them at a comparable cost to the sommerfields and I like to buy local any chance I get.

I have bits from a variety of manufacturers. MLCS, Freud, and Whiteside mostly.

[tyler mckee]

I picked up peach trees 6 piece cabinet making set on sale a while back. Works great, usually just make 2 passes and get a nice clean cut, cope and stick cuts match up perfectly. Once i got things set up perfectly I ran a couple 3/4" mdf blocks through and saved them for quick setup. I agree on having perfectly jointed and planed boards. Any little twist or bow will ruin your cut.

[Victor Robinson]

All,
Do you have any experience with the Timberline sets made by Amana? Woodwerks carries them at a comparable cost to the sommerfields and I like to buy local any chance I get.

I have the Timberline stackable slot cutter cut. Been pretty happy with it - wouldn't hesitate to get Timberline again depending on cost savings vs. Whiteside/Infinity level quality.