Insulating pole barn questions.

[Chris Pasko]

I am int he process of beginning to insulate/heat my shop here in MD. Its a 36x40 pole barn with 6x6 treat timber set 8' on center around the inside of the shop. On the outside is 2x4's which then have the metal sheathing attached. At the top of the 6x6's on both sides all around are 2x12's which supports the truss ceiling.

Now my question is, originally I had planned on just framing up walls and fastening them in between the 6x6's, then insulating, running electric and covering with 3/4" plywood. While over there looking around last night, I was thinking maybe I can just run the 2x4 material horizontally 24" on center up the fronts of the 6x6. This would work out well as it would arrive at the top dead even with the 12x12 so when I put 3/4 up I can just run it straight up to the trusses. My problem is, how much of a pita would it be to wire a shop done like this? Of course I always have seen things wired and have wired by drilling through studs etc. I don't want to make building the walls up easy and be kicking myself in the butt over wiring.

Also, I want to install 6 skylights and 6 windows. Being that the steel sheathing has ridges ever 12"-18" or so (going off memory), how do I get windows/skylights to seal and trimmed out easily? Sorry if this is a noob question, but though I have installed quite a few windows/skylights they are in regular houses =). I don't have much exp with this type of thing.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks.

-Chris

[Matt Meiser]

What you are describing is how Morton insulates their barns. I couldn't find a souce for the 8' wide fiberglass bats to do it this way. What I did was lay a PT 2/4 on the floor between the poles and toenail it into place. Then I added 2x4 blocks cut to the same width as the insulation and added another horizontal 2x4. I kept doing this up the wall. Then I used fiberglass bats in the spaces I created. I added OSB for wall sheathing.

All the wiring I ran comes down the walls from the ceiling. it is attached to the poles behind the 2x4 structure. The prevous owner ran some wiring between teh exterior sheathing and the poles. I doubt this really met code. Anything I added after the walls were closed up runs on the surface in EMT conduit. In some ways I wish I had run everything on the surface to make changes easier.

[Chris Pasko]

Thanks Matt, I would be doing it someone like you stated, howevr instead of between the poles I would be putting the 2x4's on the face of them and sheathing with 3/4 ply to the trusses.

I have been doing some investigation and it seems as though spray insulation that foams up would work really well. Just not sure about how much it would cost.

Thanks for the info.

-C

[Steven Wilson]

I would run the wiring in conduit and skip feeding it in the walls. Very easy to design, change you mind, and get inspected.

[Brad Olson]

Thanks Matt, I would be doing it someone like you stated, howevr instead of between the poles I would be putting the 2x4's on the face of them and sheathing with 3/4 ply to the trusses.

I have been doing some investigation and it seems as though spray insulation that foams up would work really well. Just not sure about how much it would cost.

Thanks for the info.

-C
Spray insulation-the foam type is VERY expensive. The blow in stuff is VERY cheap (cellulose).

Last I knew for an average shop you'd be looking at about $5000+ for spray in foam.

If you can get R40 in the ceiling, it won't matter as much what you do with the walls, you could then blow cellulose into the wide walls or put wide fiberglass bats side by side. You'll just need a couple of vertical furring strip to staple them to, not a full 2x4

Just make sure you have enough strapping to attach the wallboard to as well.

HTH

[Charles McKinley]

Yep, $5G was the qiuck and dirty quote I got for spray foam for a 30 X 40 steel building. The biggest advantage to spray foam is it really cuts down on infiltration.

[lou sansone]

I second the idea to simply run everything in EMT in the shop. That is how my shop is set up and it looks great and is very easy to reconfigure as the need arises, which it will

lou

[Jim Andrew]

My shop is also a fixed up pole shed. I ran the studs vertical on 16" centers and toenailed them to the horizontal 2x's. This allowed me to
straighten the walls up, and I insulated by cutting styrofoam to fit between
the horizontal nailers, then putting in my wiring, and finally by using r 11
batts between the studs. My pole shed had trusses from 30" to 38" oc, so
on the ceiling could not use sheetrock, so I put up a suspended ceiling,
and used 2'x4' r 19 above it. For a dust system, I plan to lay the pipe on
top of the cords of the trusses in the attic, and just cut holes in the tiles
for the drops. Jim

[Steve Clardy]

I just toe-nailed 2x6's between the 6x6"s every 24" on center. Filled with batting, then sheeted with 1/4" osb.
All electric is in conduit on the osb walls.

[Bill Lewis]

I have been doing some investigation and it seems as though spray insulation that foams up would work really well. Just not sure about how much it would cost.-C
You would probably find it to be cost prohibitive. We opted to have our new house done with the icynene foam insulation, we had done it before on the addition to our previous house. Think triple the cost to do a home vs. fiberglass. Fantastic insualtion though, just pobably overkill for your application.
For the walls, I'd look for the 4' wide bats that are typically used to insulte unfinished basements (foil faced), run horizontally, and overlap. Most of your heat loss is going to go straight up. So the R40 in the ceiling is a good idea.

I'm with everyone else, surface mounted conduit for your wiring. a bit more expensive than romex, but the only way you could keep it to code given your framing methods for the walls.

[Bob Hovde]

There's a cheaper blow-in process that uses ground-up cellulose. I had it done on my house addition walls. It gets blown in wet, scraped off level with the studs, and dries in about a week - ready for wallboard/sheathing. The cost for materials is more than fiberglass bats, but it goes much faster, so labor is much less. I also had dry cellulose blown into the old walls. It's a pain to cover up the holes and the fill isn't nearly as good.

Bob

[Peter Stahl]

Chris,

My BIL had a pole barn built and he frammed out the walls and used fiberglass insulation. His had trusses on 4 ft centers and he actually builts trusses in between so he could hang drywall and insulate. Hey, now that I think of it He still has my framming gun! He's not a woodworker, just wanted a place to keep and work on his cars. I think his is something like 28 X 36.

Pete

[Bart Leetch]

Spray insulation-the foam type is VERY expensive. The blow in stuff is VERY cheap (cellulose).

I used to install insulation professionally. We used to vacuum out cellulose because it loses its fire retardant ability after a few years. I literally lights off like a torch. Several times we had cellulose vender's come to try & sell us on cellulose insulation & we always showed them our test of aged cellulose insulation by taking some out of the vacuum truck hopper & dropping a match on it whoosh it was gone their embarrassed look & answer I guess I don't have much to sell do I was all we ever heard.

If you value your life, home, or shop stay away from cellulose.

The only proof of fire retardant abilities of cellulose is being able to take old & I do mean old 25 - 35 years old or older cellulose out of an old building & try & light it. No one has provided this proof to me yet.

I won't accept any other proof & you shouldn't either.

Talk & words of assurance are cheap your life & home & shop are not.

I have had insulation contractors on other forums E-mail me & tell me of their similar experiences. One told me he would only install cellulose if the person wanting it would sign a release that obsolved the contractor of all responsibility if there was a fire.

[Bart Leetch]

To help hold wide insulation bats in place you can use thin wire & zig zag it back & forth across the face of the insulation wrapping it around a small nail & then driving the nail flush, this works very well for over head bats, It can make your arms real tired DAMHIKT. They also make strips of metal or maybe now they are plastic that you bend & spring into place to support the insulation. You'll still need to staple kraft or foil backed insulation.

Just as a side note fiberglass is great material & rock wool I think is better its a little denser & is made from spun copper slag. I believe it has a slightly higher combustion temperature rating.

[Larry Barnes]

Hi Chris,
I have a 30 X40 about two years old that I finished interior myself,, I acutually studded out with 2 x 6's to be flush with the poles and insulated with standard bats,, this worked well for a nice flush wall,, then finished the interior,, with drywall halfway up,, and pegboard on top.. I am located in Emmitsburg,, if you want to stop up and take a look,,
Best of Luck on the project,
Larry

[Jim Andrew]

Hey Bart, I tried to burn some old ceiling tiles, got mine used when the
bank was remodeling, and some damaged ones, thought I would burn. Those
things don't loose their fire retardant, because after the fire was done, the
tiles were black, but still whole! Jim

[Chris Pasko]

Thanks a lot for all your input guys. I can see I'm going to have to give up on spray in foam though darn that would have been easy =).

Looks like I may be running 2x6's horizontally between 6x6's 24" oc and sheeting over with 3/4" ply. I will also be using 1/4" on the ceiling.

Still undecided on wires, I think may give the emt on the outside a try, but I like things nice and flush, so still slightly undecided on that.

Any ideas on the windows or skylights? Still not sure how to fit/trim/flash them around the corrugation and make them water tight.

Thanks for all the helpful input!

[Jim Andrew]

For windows with corrugated iron, just cut the hole slightly big, and install
J mold before putting the window in, don't fasten the J until after the window
is installed so you can slide the J up to the window. Caulk first so you get
the cauling between the window and the J, then just squeeze the J up to
the window and then you can run screws through the metal to hold the J in
place.

[Keith Christopher]

Chris,


Woo hoo another from baltimore ! I'm looking to upgrade mine to a pole barn can't wait to see the pics ! where in baltimore you located ?

Keith