Dry or Wet grinding...Slow or fast?

[Peter Pedisich]

Hi,

I've been using a 6" 3600rpm grinder with gray wheels for grinding my chisels and plane blades, and I'm looking for something better. I have thought about adding the Lee valley tool rest and the white wheel from them, or the blue Norton 3x 60grit from TFWW, both on my existing grinder.

The other path would be a Work Sharp 3000 or Tormek plastic or Jet clone or Veritas machine. These are appealing, but the much higher cost has me leary of doing this.

All my honing is done with abrasive sheet on granite with water.

I have read a bunch of older posts and feel better informed, but less decisive!:eek:

Will I regret not getting a slow speed dry or wet machine after I just get a new 3x wheel for my 6" grinder?

Thanks,

Pete P

[Chris Griggs]

Personally, I'd just get the tool rest and wheel (or just the tools rest and keep using the gray wheel). Unless you want less of a hollow (Tormek) or a flat grind, I don't see a reason to get anything else for chisels and plane blades. That tool rest will be a good investment either way. I think you will always find a use for a basic grinder with a good rest, even if you end up getting another more expensive system later on.

[Tony Shea]

I think adding the tool rest on your current grinder is the cheapest and most effecient option. You will absolutely also need some sort of truing device to get your current gray wheel true to the rest. I've had great luck with the single point diamond truing tool mounted into the chisel/plane blade guide that comes with the veritas tool rest. Just don't use much pressure when using the diamond or you will just rip the diamond out. Some easy consistant way to dress your wheel is a must for grinding your edges. The coarsest wheel you can get is also the coolest path you can take, which I've had great luck with the gray wheel that comes on my grinder.

I think it's Larry Williams that has a good article on grinding edges with a high speed grinder. After reading his article I was instantly turned off from cosidering the insanely expensive tormek for my edges.

[Bill White]

Look at the Makita horizontal water system. Its been around for generations. And best of all, it WORKS.
Bill

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Pete

What is your target? For myself it would be the ability to grind safely as close to the edge of the blade as possible. For others it may be to grind as quickly as possible, and be less concerned about getting close to the edge.

The cheapest option that I consider a real upgrade, using the equipment you already have, is to add a Norton 3X wheel and a Veritas or Wolverine (if it fits) grinder stand. The 3X runs very cool. Also, your full speed 6" machine is roughly the equivalent to a half-speed 8" machine in terms of speed at the circumference of the wheel. Speed = heat. The downside for the 3X is its strength - that is, it is very friable and this makes a mess. Grit everywhere. Personally I would get a 36 grit white wheel. Learn to use it.

A good grinder stand is vital for control. The Veritas is a good price and is aimed at incorporating jigs as well as freehand use. The Wolverine is more heavy duty and aimed at purely freehand use. There is also a Tormek BGM-100 option, but I think that this would suit a larger grinder wheel better (see my link below).

The best grinder option for my needs is a Tormek. I tried a cheap imitation machine once, and it was a huge disappointment with regard quality. I would avoid the Worksharp as the angles it offers are limited and the running costs will mount up. The Tormek offers a great deal of flexibility. While slower, one can avoid a great deal of grinding if it is done with the greater precision (from the Tormek) at the outset. In any event, the Tormek is not slow if the wheel is kept clean. I use it only as a grinder, and then go to waterstones for honing.

My set up is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/GrindingNirvana.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Don Dorn]

My system is not as elaborate as Dereks, but it has worked well for a long time. The following is how I grind plane blades. It is a video that I did for someone who wanted to understand the Kirby system and I failed to explain it well.

For chisels, I mostly use the Wolverine system and lay the handle in the sliding arm and approach the wheel lightly. It has worked well and seems to give me a straight grind.

http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n124/djdorn/?action=view&current=Grindingplaneiron.mp4 (http://s111.photobucket.com/albums/n124/djdorn/?action=view&current=Grindingplaneiron.mp4)

[Peter Pedisich]

Don, Thank you!, you just saved me $50, what a great and simple idea, I have a 12" pc of pipe, and the copper pipe clamps in my garage. I am going to set this up tomorrow to see how I do with it.
Thank you also Chris, Tony, Bill and Derek for your helpful advice. I certainly don't mind spending money on a quality machine, but I like to make sure it's right for my needs and skill level.

Here are some pics of an old beater chisel that I practiced with on a temporary shop-made tool rest. It is decent, but took way too long.

https://picasaweb.google.com/102981472942866443292/MiscShopImages?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIqjstznxt277gE&feat=directlink

[Jack Curtis]

Look at the Makita horizontal water system. Its been around for generations. And best of all, it WORKS.

My sentiments exactly. Of course it does fling the slurry around a bit, almost like a laser circling the shop.

Jack

[Zahid Naqvi]

Two words.
Slow, Wet

[Harvey Pascoe]

I am very disappointed with my Veritas tool rest/grinding jig due to the very narrow range of blades it will hold, mainly only long ones. It will not take any short chisels or small plane blades. I would look for something more versatile - if there is such a thing. I"ve spent many, many hours trying to adapt a way to get it to handle smaller blades but there is none. The tool holder is too far from the wheel.

Otherwise it is fine if your blades will fit.

[Gary Curtis]

On the question of wet. I have the Veritas Mk II powered sharpener. To avoid all the metal dust it kicks up on my bench, and to cool the tools, I use an oil can filled with water and spray a little on the abrasive for heavy cuts. So I get the best of both words. (more on the results in a bit).

For versatility, the Veritas does well on traditional hand tools. But I wrestle with Mortise Chisels, and knives have to be held by hand at an angle. Thus defeating the 'precision' aspect of the machine. Same for an axe. Tormek seems to have mastered the Swiss Army Knife approach, but at great cost. And i would not have anything in my shop that employs so many accessories and fiddly parts.

The abrasives used by the Veritas are PMA stick-downs, so the water doesn't melt them as it would sandpaper. When I apply the water method (not authorized by Lee Valley) I erect a small cardboard carton around the machine to catch the spray. And I wear real dirty clothes. For the ongoing edge maintenance needed, I use only the finest grits and just touch the bevel to the spinning disk for less than a second or two. It is not a grinding action. Just a brief touch-up. As it would be on any of the major powered devices. I own about 35 chisels. I can hone the bevel on all of them in less than 10 minutes.