Veritas Detail Palm Planes - who wants to try them next?

[Jonas Baker]

I was the second person to receive the Lee Valley detail palm planes, thanks to John Collocia, who made these planes available and reviewed them here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?170599-Anyone-see-the-new-LV-palm-planes&p=1782090&highlight=#post1782090

My first though upon receiving these planes, was simply how small they are. They are a bit smaller than I thought, and because of that they are pretty specialized tools, which is stating the obvious. Also, for my own uses, I only found the double convex and the flat plane to be of use to me. I would use the double convex for carving archtop guitar tops and backs, or at least to get into the highly curved areas of archtop guitars. The double convex has a pretty small radius, so it is more of a specialized tool for getting in pretty tightly curved areas. To me, it did seem to have more radius than I needed, but I suppose it is only for certain areas, and it would be useful when needed.

The flat detail plane would be useful for me in carving braces for acoustic guitars. I really don't have much use for the concave or the single convex plane. I can usually use other tools for creating those shapes, whether rounding off the edges with a block plane, or using a hollow or round wood plane. So I don't need such a small tool for those shapes.

Using the tools was actually very comfortable. Despite their small size, they can be held a variety of ways. Depending on how you are using them, the knobs can either be nice or, just get in the way, but the knobs are easily removed. One of the really really great things about these planes is that they can be held used with two hands, like a block plane. Much like when you are using a block plane, you can push with your right hand on the sides of the plane, and then use your left hand can help guide the plane by placing your thumb or fingers on the front of the plane. While there is no small front knob like on a block plane, it seems that these planes were cleverly designed to have a nice flat area on the toe of the plane where you can place a finger to use two hands, which is VERY helpful for reducing hand fatigue when planeing for longer periods of time.

So anyway, whomever who like to test out these planes, just send me a PM, and I will send you out the four detail planes. Then when you are done checking them out, you can either send them back to John Coloccia, or send them on to the next person who wants them.

I hope someone else gets a chance to try these out. And oh yeah, thank you John Coloccia for making these available, and also Chris Griggs for sending them on to me!

Jonas Baker

[Chris Griggs]

Glad you enjoyed using them. As you know, I had fun playing with them too.

My first reaction was the same as yours. You really have to see/hold them to appreciate just how small they are. And yes, despite their small size I found the surprisingly comfortable to hold.

[John Coloccia]

I do with they would make a double convex one that's just like it but a touch bigger. I have small Ibex planes but the radius is just a bit flatter than I want. It's interesting that the guitar guys are setting a pattern of liking the double convex and flat planes. :). Myka has played with his own set of these and I think he mentioned using the concave one to round braces.

[Chris Griggs]

For the small case work I do, I really only found the flat one useful - mainly for inside chamfers and other little trimming things I typically do with a chisel. While I don't plan on buying one of the palm planes using the flat one made me realize just how handy such a small plane can be and now I really want to get one of the detail rabbet planes. (my birthdays next week - maybe my wish will come true:rolleyes:)

[Jim Neeley]

I would appreciate the chance to try them out, when my turn comes up. :)

Jim

[john davey]

I would love to get on this list. Thanks, John...

[Shawn Pixley]

I'd like to try them as well. John do you have the finger planes from Stew Mac? How do these compare? I was a minute late on a set of those.

[Joe Cunningham]

I do with they would make a double convex one that's just like it but a touch bigger. I have small Ibex planes but the radius is just a bit flatter than I want. It's interesting that the guitar guys are setting a pattern of liking the double convex and flat planes. :). Myka has played with his own set of these and I think he mentioned using the concave one to round braces.

Have you used the LMII John D' Angelico plane? If so, how do they compare to those? I'm working on my first archtop and I like the D'Angelico, except the hex nut tightening system, which is a pain.

[John Coloccia]

I havent tried the D'angelico, mostly because I'm pretty happy with my Ibex planes, and now Veritas planes. The Veritas are like my "rescue" planes. I can get right in and get little details just right. I keep finding more uses for them where I'll grab one for two seconds to take care of something and then put it right back.

Re: StewMac planesThe brass ones are the Ibex planes I use. I love them. The palm plane is just right for roughing any carved/arch top, abd the smaller ones are perfect for details and braces.

[Ryan Baker]

I just got one of the Veritas flat sole planes, and haven't had a chance to use it yet, but my first impressions are good. Like others, my original thoughts were for jobs like carving guitar braces and similar. I've got the double convex version on my Christmas list. As for others, I don't see much use for the other two. Too bad Veritas doesn't have a package for the two.

I would also be interested in reviews of the D'angelico plane. I don't realy need any more smal carving planes, but the D'angelico looks like a really nice one for things like archtops (of course, it ought to be good considering the list of experts who gave input into the design).

[Joe Cunningham]

John and I live in the same state, maybe we can arrange a three-way review with the Veritas-Ibex-D'Angelico. I'm a complete acoustic-archtop newb, so I'm probably not the best person for it.

[John Coloccia]

John and I live in the same state, maybe we can arrange a three-way review with the Veritas-Ibex-D'Angelico. I'm a complete acoustic-archtop newb, so I'm probably not the best person for it.That sounds like fun. I JUST finished carving a top tonight but I should be working on another one in a couple of weeks. Maybe you can drop by and we'll have fun carving on a new top. I have some European spruce on the way :)

[John Coloccia]

Just an FYI....They're now with Jim in Alaska. These little guys sure do get around. :)

[Jim Neeley]

Those little guys get around indeed!!! ..and darned nice little planes they are! Thank you Jonas for sending them my way.

My intrigue with them was as drawer or box edge chamferers. I did a little test in some kiln dried clear white pine, parallel to the grain, comparing these Veritas Detail Palm planes to my Veritas bullnose, Veritas LA block plane and Veritas miniature shoulder plane. For this test I decided to keep it all in the family. <g> Due to my exceedingly limited shop time, the flat bottomed palm plane has the disadvantage of not having any fettling but was tested "as received". All of the other planes had been recently polished front and back at least through 6k.

The palm planes worked very well for this test, even without fettling. I was expecting the handles to be awkward but found their length worked really well in maintaining the angle of attack for the cutting edge. The cut seemed to be a series of short cuts in comparison with the shoulder where the cut was one continuous strip but I attest this to my laziness in failing to hone the edge to what it could be and through no fault of the plane.

For chamfering I was pleasantly surprised to fine the palm was easier to maintain a consistant chamfer angle. I'd have expected the blocks heavier weight to be more stable but it worked quite the opposite.

I achieved the worst performance from the bullnose but I admit in advance it's probably my least favorite Veritas plane.

The miniature shoulder gace me the best overall. It had a balance of longer length (2.5") base and, with it's finely honed blade made one continuous consistent chamfer the length of the board (~6").

I'll be the first here to saw that my findings likely would differ from others, especially those with more experience but for a beginner, they are what they are.

That danged little $30 Veritas shoulder proves itself over and over for small cuts! ;-)

The next person to PM me requesting them will be the lucky next recipient of the planes. It's time for them to head to warmer pastures.

Jim in Anchorage

[john davey]

These guys are safe and sound in MD now. I am having my knee replaced on the 19th so I am planning to give them a quick workout and move them on. Who is next? Thanks, John

[Chris Griggs]

Been wanting to add, after using these and finding them a bit too small for my uses I decided to give something else a try. So last week when LV had the Little Victor on sale for about $20 on Cyber Monday I grabbed one. That thing is sweet!!! Perfect size for trimming and smoothing areas on small parts, not too small, not to big. Not the most comfortable plane to use for an extended period, but it's not at all uncomfortable either. The cool thing is there really isn't any wrong way to hold it. It is actually quite comfortable for one or two handed use for the little tasks that one would use it for, and the little recesses/lips on the front and back give you a lot of control. I know it looks like a toy, but it can do a lot of work. LOVE, LOVE LOVE it, and believe it or not can see it getting as much use as my LABP. If you've been wanting a small plane, but think the detail planes might be a bit too small for your purposes, give the Little Victor a go.

[john davey]

Hey all. I am ready to move these on. Sadly I had my knee replaced right after they arrived so I have not really worked them but I should not tie them up any more. So who is ready?

[Zahid Naqvi]

I would have jumped on these if I did any kind of work that could use such planes, alas I do not. I see other names int he thread above hopefully they are still interested and will reply soon. Thanks John Collocia (if I am not mistakeen) for offering them up for circulation, this truly represents the cooperative atmosphere at the creek.

[John Coloccia]

It's truly my pleasure, Zahid. I only wish I could be traveling along with them, especially to Alaska. I always wanted to head up there and do a bit of real flying instead of this sissy, airport to airport stuff we do in the lower 48. :D

I also think how much easier it would be to get spruce from British Columbia. Then again, Alder and Mahogany gets harder. LOL...nothing's ever perfect, is it?

[Jim Neeley]

Actually, John, the *toughest* part about Alaska is the near-total lack of old tools. After all, Alaska is only 54 years old.

Well, that and you don't want to pay freight on anything heavy or bulky that won't fit in a USPS Priority One-Rate box. The shipping cost on mail order wood can easily exceed the purchase price; sometimes by a lot.

It is nice though, that most of the state is "uncontrolled airspace" so you can fly as you wish. Maybe that's part of why Anchorage, Alaska has what is touted as the "largest and biggest float plane base in the world" (Lake Hood Seaplane Base) and the "Largest Small Plane Airport in the World" (Merrill Field). Private planes around here are almost as popular as boats.. well, almost!! <g>

It may seem strange to some but it's not uncommon to have several people in an office who commute back and forth to work around here by their private plane; often from a private airstrip right by their house.

[John Coloccia]

So out of 61,000+ members there's NO ONE that wants to try these things. I know 2 or 3 people just locally that would like to give them a spin.

Heck, if no one really wants them, I'll take them back myself and hand them out locally. These are hot little planes. I find it hard to believe that no one wants them for FREE when I'm happy to pay good money for them, but so be it. If we get no responses by Sunday, just ship them back to me. Honestly, though, I don't believe it. There are guys out there that want them but they don't feel like they're in the "IN" crowd. I don't care. I put them out there because it's about time we start showing the great products North America (USA and Canada) can make. I'm about ready to send another plane...a far more interesting plane...on it's rounds. I don't get anything for this from anyone. I just want to share what I can as I can, but you guys need to come out of your shells and participate!

[Andy Hsieh]

I'm interested - pm me

Thanks
andy

[Andy Hsieh]

Never heard back on these -

No worries though

[john davey]

Hi Andy, sorry, I guess I dropped the ball on this. PM me your address and I'll get them off to you..John

[John Coloccia]

So who's got them now? Do you have them, Andy?

[john davey]

They are on the way to Andy now... John

[Andy Hsieh]

I received them today - 4 plane bottoms (2convex,1hollow and 1 flat) but only 2 handles
initial impression was - "wow - these are tiny but very cool". Definitely see how a violin maker could find them necessary.

Looking forward to trying them out this weekend. After that - who wants to try them out?

Andy

[John Coloccia]

I received them today - 4 plane bottoms (2convex,1hollow and 1 flat) but only 2 handles
initial impression was - "wow - these are tiny but very cool". Definitely see how a violin maker could find them necessary.

Looking forward to trying them out this weekend. After that - who wants to try them out?

Andy

The reason you only have 2 handles is that Rob Lee's R&D folks ended up sending me 2 sets of castings....an earlier prototype (which I kept) and the current production set (which I sent out). I only had 4 handles, though, so I kept 2 and sent 2 out. If you buy them, each one comes with a handle, even if you buy it as a set :)

[Andy Hsieh]

Hi john
If you dont mind me asking - So what was your intended usage when you bought these and do you still find the original casting set useful?
andy

[John Coloccia]

Hi john
If you dont mind me asking - So what was your intended usage when you bought these and do you still find the original casting set useful?
andy

I didn't buy them. They sent them to me to test out because of the guitar work I do. Yes, I still use them for my work. I find the flat one and the double convex one very useful. I don't use the hollow one or the single convex one very often. I find that they're very useful for getting into places that other tools can't get into or are just too awkward. I can get into tight little areas and reliably shave off a bit here and there.

I could see the hollow one being very useful breaking an edge on furniture. I just don't really build furniture so I don't use it for much.

[Andy Hsieh]

Ok - who wants to try these? I am ready to move them on

Let me know

[Jerome Hanby]

Just curious, anyone order a set of these after trying them?

[Rob Lee]

Just curious, anyone order a set of these after trying them?

Geez - I hope so..... :)

[Chris Griggs]

Just curious, anyone order a set of these after trying them?

I may have already posted this but...

No, I didn't by these after trying them, but using them did prompt me to by a Little Victor (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=56665&cat=1,41182), which I absolutely love.

[John Coloccia]

I may have already posted this but...

No, I didn't by these after trying them, but using them did prompt me to by a Little Victor (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=56665&cat=1,41182), which I absolutely love.

So these are like a gateway miniature plane? LOL.

[Chris Griggs]

So these are like a gateway miniature plane? LOL.

YES! Now I also kinda want to get the pair of squirrel tails and one of the detail rabbet planes - you don't need planes this small for everything, but there are times when they sure are nice. For example, lil vic got used extensively on certain aspects of the shaping I did on the bowsaw I recently built - very nice for narrow or short pieces. I personally think of the Lil Vic and squirrel tails as being about the right size for small furniture and box work - to me the detail palm planes felt just a little too specialized for the types of stuff I was doing, where as the lil vic can do detail work, but also serve as a handy little trimming tool - kinda like an extra small block plane. Lil Vic also works well one or two handed which is nice. No question that the detail planes are great little tools though, they just were less suited for me/my work.

[Andy Hsieh]

Bump for those who may have missed the opportunity

Pm me!

[John Coloccia]

If no one takes them by Monday, I'll just take them back. Probably send them out again later this year if there's any interest.

No if I could just figure out where that smoothing plane of mine is.... :)

[John Coloccia]

Ah thus the first annual palm plane tryout shareathon has come to an end. Thanks all for participating. I'll PM you my address, Andy, so you can send them back when you have a chance :)

[Chris Griggs]

Now if I could just figure out where that smoothing plane of mine is.... :)

Hey John, when you find it can you add me to the list of folks who want a taste of it?

[John Coloccia]

There's a thread kicking around here somewhere....add yourself on there as that's how I'm keeping track. I e-mailed the gentleman who has it now and told him it's time to pass it on. I think moving forward we'll try to put a 1 or 2 week limit on it because there were a lot of folks interested.

[Chris Griggs]

There's a thread kicking around here somewhere....add yourself on there as that's how I'm keeping track. I e-mailed the gentleman who has it now and told him it's time to pass it on. I think moving forward we'll try to put a 1 or 2 week limit on it because there were a lot of folks interested.

10-4. Thanks John, you da man!