Hand planes to replace powered router

[Mike Holbrook]

My router & router table need replacing and I think I can replace them with hand tools that I will enjoy more and feel safer using. The main things I have used a router & table for were: grooves, rabbits and rounding over corners, all of which I think I would prefer using hand tools for. I think my chisels and saws will handle dovetails, finger joints & mortises & tenons.

I have been making wooden planes but I think the specialty or rabbit planes needed to do this work may serve better in metal form. I actually have a Medium LV Shoulder Plane, which would be the main plane I could make. I see that Lee Valley makes Plow & Router planes in various sizes and I am wondering which might serve me best. I am planing to embark on a large number of cabinet projects so I am thinking something to cut grooves for drawer bottoms and cabinet backs would come in very handy. The Plow plane looks like it would be very accurate and easy to use but so does the Router plane, which may be the more versatile tool. I guess I could buy both but do I "need" both? LV also offers a little corner rounding plane for just $22, which looks like a great deal.

Any suggestions on which tools I might need for this work would be appreciated.

[Chris Griggs]

I don't have the LV plow but do have the router and the skew rabbet. I use the router on grooves all the time, its not hard to do, but I still plan to get a plow at some point. The plow will allow you to do grooves quite quickly and will also allow you to do small rabbets, so in that respect the plow offers some versatility. The router can do all sorts of stuff in addition to grooves - hinge mortises, cleaning/trimming tenons, dados, and a bunch of random stuff the comes up. My router plane is probably my favorite tool I own, I personally wouldn't trade it for plow and am glad I got it before I got the plow.

That said, if you have to choose one, for your purposes the plow may be a better option, since your main task seems to be cutting a bunch of rabbets and grooves. Honestly, I think I'm odd in how in love I am with my router plane and probably most people would rather get the plow first.

EDIT: And oh yeah, ditching the tailed router is awesome, and was very freeing for me. I was never very good with mine anyway. I still use it occasionally, but really only for shaping mouldings.

[Pedro Reyes]

I guess I'll just share how I tackle some of those things.

Rabbets: I almost always use a stanley 78, ebay with a new balde. nicker for cross grain, no nicker for with the grain.

Groves: I use a record #50, love this little tool, I have not needed to cut a grove deeper into a board's width that this plane would be a limitation, but that could happen.

Dadoes: So far (even tho I have a wooden dado) I have used a knife to score, backsaw to define, and chisels to rough out, when needed a router plane to bring to depth, but for the most part chisels were good enough.

simple rounding of edges, I can do with a 9-1/2.

just my 2c

/p

[Chris Griggs]

simple rounding of edges, I can do with a 9-1/2.


/p

Agreed, for small roundovers and chamfers stick with a block or bench plane

[Jim Koepke]

The following is just my opinion and may not work for your situation of style of work.

For grooves & rabbets a Stanley 45 is my first choice. The Stanley 78 or equivalent is good for rabbets. I have a Record 778. The adjustment locking screws for the depth stop and fences seem to come loose during use. This can happen with any plane, but seems to be more common with my #778.

A router plane can cut grooves, but it is a slower and not as sure a process as when using a plane like a #45 or #50 or other similar plow/multi plane.

If you make a lot of stopped grooves and dados, a router plane will very useful. Most of the time for my stopped dados I will use saws and chisels.

The small corner rounding planes are nice, but limited. One of their biggest disadvantages is if the grain shifts, there can be some very bad tear out.

For this kind of work I have taken to using a wood bodied plane with a concave sole I think it is known as a hollow plane. You may be able to make some of these.
My other option for rounding corners is a block plane.


For plowing grooves it would surprise me if the LV is not easier to set up and use than one of the multi planes. The thing I like about the Stanley 45 is it can also do beading, reading, cut sash profiles and match (tongue & groove) boards.

jtk

[Andy Margeson]

I have cut grooves successfully with the LV router plane using the fence and the 1/8" cutter. It is quite slow and can become tedious if you are making a lot of drawers. Overall, it is a great tool that I wouldn't be without and it is extremely versatile. I would sure like to buy both pairs of the LV plough and skew rabbet planes, but it would be $1,000. I don't know whether, as a practical matter, you need the pairs or not frankly. Seems like mild tearout would be OK in these cases and you could clean it up with a router plane.

[fred mcclure]

lv plow and lv router plane . along with a sharp chisel there is nothing they cant do

[Mark AJ Allen]

Honestly, I don't believe you need both pairs of the plow and skew rabbet plane. I have just the R. Hand flavour and can do everything I need. If cleanup is required, that's what chisels are for.

I would say you don't need either plane ... you can cut rabbets and dadoes with just chisels, if you have the time to do it and the patience to learn and develop that skill. From a practical POV, I would get one of each if you are looking for a handheld alternative to your router for cutting grooves and rabbets. I wouldn't recommend the router plane to do those things. It requires a fine adjustment of iron height for each pass of the plane, more dependent on user control for making quality cuts as opposed to the setup on the plow/rabbet planes doing some of that for you and doesn't work as well as the plow/rabbet if the wings aren't supported properly.

Depending on what grooves you are making, you might consider the Medium Shoulder Plane over the Plow. The LV plow has limited availability on iron widths and those that are available will not make a groove for a 3/4 panel if that is your intention for it. The plow is really for making grooves on thin panel stock, like drawer bottoms.

[James Owen]

Like many here, I also dumped my electric router (several years ago in my case), and don't miss it for a minute.

Here's what I use to cut various groove-type joinery:

Rebates: a vintage Stanley #78 (with/without nicker, depending on with/across the grain) and clean up, as necessary, with a LN shoulder plane.

Grooves: either a wooden Chinese style plow plane (the Japan WW one) or, for the last couple of years, a Stanley #45, and clean up/flatten the bottoms of the grooves with a LN router plane.

Through and stopped dados: a shop-made wooden saw guide and an Azebiki (Japanese mortising saw) to cut the side walls, a bench chisel bevel down to remove the majority of the waste, and a router plane to remove the remaining waste and get the bottom flat and to consistent depth.

Through and stopped sliding dovetails: the same method as for dados, except that the saw guide has a sloped side (I use a 10˚ slope to match my dovetail plane). I use an ECE dovetail plane to cut the male portion of the dovetail.

Widening grooving work that is too narrow: the LN left & right side rabbet planes. These can be set up to take off just a hair so that you can sneak up on the perfect width and fit.

Moulding profiles: a set of the Chinese-style hollow and round planes (the ones that Japan WW sells), as well as the profiled irons on the #45. The H & R planes do a pretty nice job of cutting almost any profile you can draw.

Rounding over: a small block plane. One of the above-mentioned hollow planes, sized to the desired round-over radius, also works.

Once you've done some joinery with them a couple of times and get a feel for how the tool(s) work, they are surprisingly fast and exceptionally accurate, not to mention quiet and a lot of fun.

[Zach Dillinger]

Here is how I do my work:

Grooves: Wooden plow plane. My normal user is a very nice Griffiths Norwich that I bought from John Sindelaar, and I have a full set of Ohio Tool plow irons that surprisingly work quite well in it. I also have what appears to be a late 18th century or early 19th century "Yankee" plow, which I don't use much (hardly at all) for obvious reasons.

Rebates / Filletsters: Huntsman Late Moon moving filletster plane, various skew and square wooden rabbet planes.

Dadoes: Stanley router plane, backsaw, paring chisel. I have a few dado planes, but I find them difficult to set up, so I usually don't bother. I desperately want a real "old woman's tooth", one that uses plow irons, but I haven't found one yet and I'm not a planemaker. Sometimes I'll bore a hole with a center bit to terminate a stopped dado, but I don't do a lot of those.

Moldings: Hollows and rounds and a collection of molding planes

Roundovers: Either the hollows or a plane. Scale of roundover determines what plane I use. If it is a fairly large radius, then I will make a pass or two with a bench plane, then use a hollow. It is also possible to use a bench plane to facet the curve, making a smooth curve from straight lines, but I find a hollow to be quicker in most cases.

[Mike Holbrook]

It is great to see so many who have found hand tool solutions to replace an electric router. I was checking auctions for old planes and did find some of the models mentioned above but it was very hard to tell what sort of working order these more complicated planes might be in. I have a little experience buying hand drills and braces at auction and know it can require patience and acceptance of the fact that not every bid won will produce a functional tool. I also did a little looking around at the specialty planes at Tools from Japan & The Japan Woodworker. The wooden Japanese plow planes are much less expensive than the Western versions. I am just not sure how well the Japanese tools work & last comparatively. The mechanical mechanisms are simpler but I have no idea how well they function.

It looks to me like I might need both a Plow & Router Plane. I can see how standard size grooves, dadoes & rabbits could be done with chisels, saws and my shoulder plane. I am not so sure that the smaller grooves for drawer bottoms & cabinet backs could be made consistently accurate enough with the same tools though. I am thinking this is where I might need the plow plane. The router plane, particularly the Lee Valley model with the add on fence, looks like it would be the most versatile tool. I have seen these planes used to clean up dadoes that were roughed out with chisels and or saws. I think the LV Router plane fence might be steady enough to do a decent job of the smaller grooves too but I think it might be slow work. So my initial thought is to buy a Lee Valley Router Plane & fence and maybe try one of the Japanese Plow Planes. There are also some interesting, less expensive Japanese planes for rounding corners.

I am thinking about getting a Lee Valley/Wenzloff & Sons Half-Back saw. I think between it the Silky WoodBoy folding Back Saw & my 8" Tyzack Backsaw, I should be able to saw shoulders for tenons & dadoes that I could finish up with the Veritas Router plane. Although I think the Half-Back saw would be more for cross cuts it could handle anything that the relatively narrow/short Back Saws could not, mostly larger tenons.

[Zach Dillinger]

Mike,

I have the Wenzloff half-back saw, and I use it just about every day. It is a very versatile saw. Mine came from Lee Valley.

For a plow plane, don't overlook the old woodies. They work really well if you can find the irons to fit. If you are really only concerned with grooves for drawer bottoms, they do make drawer bottom planes, which is essentially the grooving plane from a tongue and groove set. Many of these are set up permanently to make a 1/4" groove that is 1/4" up from your reference edge. Just about right for a drawer bottom. These should cost next to nothing.

Zach

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for the info Zach.

Since Wood Joy is all backed up while Glenn works on getting a construction project finished before winter stops him, I have put off my idea of building a bow saw for now. I went to buy a Half-Back from Lee Valley last night and found they are out of stock until the later half of the month. I found the Wenzloff & Sons website and was very excited to see they offer saw kits for their Half-Back and several other saws. I plan to give them a call after they have a chance to get woken up this AM. They list an 18 & 20" saw, 10 or 12 ppi for CC & 8 or 10"ppi rip. The one LV sells which is listed as having a 16" blade, 20" total (9 tpi), so depending on whether the length figure Wenzloff uses is the blade or full length there may or may not be a length difference. I can't recall how to convert ppi to tpi at the moment either so I will call them to make sure I am getting something close to the LV model.

The main question I have about replacing the router has to do with the sides or shoulders of dadoes & grooves. I can see how a router plane would clean the bottom of these joints and maintain a consistent depth but, I am more skeptical about a consistent width and correct 90 degree angle on the shoulders. I am wondering if a backsaw & some sort of guide or mitre box might improve chances of getting this part of those joints correct?

[Zach Dillinger]

Mike,

For grooves cut with a plow plane, your shoulders being square depends entirely on your technique. When you use a plow plane, each of your two hands have separate and equally-important duties. Assuming you are a righty, your right hand does nothing more than push the plane forward. Your left hand's job is to keep the fence tight up against the reference edge, and provide a tiny push down to help keep the plane in the cut. If you do this properly, your groove will be straight and the edges will be square, assuming your fence is square to the plane sole. If you don't do this correctly, your groove can be all over the place.

For dadoes, I always saw the shoulders with a backsaw. I don't use a guide, but some folks do. The most important thing you can do here is to use a knife to lay out the work, then cut a small trench with a bench knife, making an angled shoulder into the waste-wood side while keeping the straight and clean line on the keep side of the work. The saw will then track perfectly in this groove and no guide is necessary if you can keep the saw on your vertical line. Saw to the proper depth, then chisel out the waste and finish with a router plane if necessary. Some guys use dado planes for this work, but I don't like them very much.

Like most things with handtool woodworking, consistency is dependent on technique and accurate layout.

[Mike Holbrook]

More great info. Zach, I like your method on the dadoes. I am still thinking about the grooves. The Japanese wooden plough planes I found are cheap enough so I want be upset if I buy one and it does not work out to be a long term or complete solution. The problem is there is limited information on them at the sites where they are for sale, making me a little suspicious. I checked out plough planes for auction, there were many more than I imagined. I was having a hard time telling if all the parts were present and functional. Plough planes have more moving parts, bolts etc. so it is hard to tell if those parts work smoothly. The metal ones that looked or advertised that they were fully functional were demanding prices that appeared to be competitive with new metal versions. I could not tell at al if the wood versions I found would function well or not, many of them had wooden threads or sliding dowels that were obviously damaged/worn.

The Mujingfang Plough Plane Japan Woodworker offers looks like it might fit the bill. The sliding bars look just like the handles they use on some planes so may double as handles which would aide in keeping the blade in the groove and moving in the correct direction. The price is good at around $63. The description sounds about right:

The body of our Adjustable Plough Plane is made from select pieces of Rosewood. The fence can be set to cut a groove 0" - 4" from the edge of the work piece. Five high carbon steel blades are included in sizes 1/8", 3/16", 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2". It can plough a groove up to 3/8" in depth. The blades are sharpened and will cut. But for best performance, they should be fully honed prior to use. The length of the plane is 7"

Tools From Japan offers a plow plane at an exceptionally good price $48.34. Unfortunately the picture and information do not reveal: how it functions, what size it is or what parts come with it. There is mention of multiple blades in a general description regarding the two planes in this Special purpose planes category. I could send Stuart a note and get more info.

[Jim Koepke]

I checked out plough planes for auction, there were many more than I imagined. I was having a hard time telling if all the parts were present and functional. Plough planes have more moving parts, bolts etc. so it is hard to tell if those parts work smoothly. The metal ones that looked or advertised that they were fully functional were demanding prices that appeared to be competitive with new metal versions.

Maybe it is because of Christmas approaching, but the prices for the buy it now on the Stanley 45 is unbelievable.

If you look through the completed bids you will find prices that are a bit more realistic.

Also look at the Ward's Master 45 that is the same plane.

As to knowing what is there or isn't there, this may help some:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?116419-Planes-and-a-Few-Things-to-Look-For&p=1176704

If you have a particular Stanley 45 you are considering, send me a PM and I will be happy to render my opinion.

My messages are usually checked in the morning. My morning may start close to your lunchtime.

Even if the new price for a Stanley 45 is in the $300 range, my five copies are likely to stay in my shop.

jtk