Lie Neilsen chisels

[Dale Cruea]

UPS just delivered my new Lie Nielsen beveled chisels. WOW... nice set. I just had to tell someone.
They are a little smaller than I thought they would be but they fit my smaller hands. Nice feel.
I have a set of Pfeil chisels and these are about 2/3 maybe 3/4 the Pfeil. And they are English not metric.
I polished the back of the 3/4" so far. Nice and flat to start with. Only took a few minutes(well about 30) cause I have never did this correctly before. I took a little extra time to make sure I did not mess something up.

Also... does anyone use a LV angle gage?
I have both of them and when I rotate the knob on the side whatever I am sharpening does not stay square on the tip. The left side will raise up about .0015 to .002".
I wrote LV and they said I was not holding the gage properly. I am holding/pushing the gage as they show.
Just wondered if I was doing something wrong....again. :confused:
No pictures.... you all know what the chisels look like.
The roll that comes with them is very nice.... Like that a lot.
Ohhh welll... thanks for letting me brag a little.

[Michael Peet]

Hi Dale,

I understand your excitement. I have a set of those and I love them. Can't help with the angle gauge; I use the LV honing guide.

Mike

[gary Zimmel]

Got to love it when presents arrive in the mail..
I've got a few of those LN chisels... and second what Michael said.
Congrats on your new chisels Dale. Brag all you want.

[Andy Margeson]

UPS just delivered my new Lie Nielsen beveled chisels. WOW... nice set. I just had to tell someone.
They are a little smaller than I thought they would be but they fit my smaller hands. Nice feel.


I have large hands and really like mine. They have nice balance and I like the handle being closer to the work. If you mean the side clamping honing guide, I think it is deliberately made so you can adjust the angle with side pressure, so for example you can camber plane blades. Advice I have read is to look at the edge after a few strokes and adjust slightly. Congratulations.

[Dale Cruea]

The LV honing guide Mkll is what I have. I just wondered if anyone else was having trouble. I can adjust it out. Thought I might be doing something wrong.

Thanks for the comments.
Just got the backs of the chisels flattened. Man I have never had it go that easy before.
I put a quick edge on them since I had the 8000 stone out. Now I just need to layout some dovetails and give them a try.

[Andrae Covington]

Also... does anyone use a LV angle gage?
I have both of them and when I rotate the knob on the side whatever I am sharpening does not stay square on the tip. The left side will raise up about .0015 to .002".
I wrote LV and they said I was not holding the gage properly. I am holding/pushing the gage as they show.
Just wondered if I was doing something wrong....again. :confused:


The LV honing guide Mkll is what I have. I just wondered if anyone else was having trouble. I can adjust it out. Thought I might be doing something wrong.

Oh, now I understand what you were talking about. Yeah I have noticed that when rotating the knob for a slightly-higher-angle microbevel, it does tend to change the angle along the edge as well. Must be something about the eccentric mechanism inside the roller.

[Mike Brady]

If you are getting and uneven micro bevel with the Mk II, either you or the jig are malfunctioning. Turning the knob changes the location of the entire axle for the roller, so the bevels should remain exactly parallel to one another. This is based on hundreds of uses, not just hearsay. Most likely, you are getting some skewing from the chisel shifting in the jig. The Mk II does a poor job of holding L-N chisels because they taper in thickness and the jig clamp does not adjust for this. Actually an Eclipse copy holds the chisels very well. I am using the Mk II less and less now and just depending on the Mk II for scraper plane irons and skewed irons. That is just a personal choice.

[daniel lane]

Got to love it when presents arrive in the mail..
I've got a few of those LN chisels... and second what Michael said.
Congrats on your new chisels Dale. Brag all you want.

I've a set of the LN BE chisels and love them. Absolutely third Michael's comment, and a second on the congratulations.

As for presents in the mail, I'm actually suffering slightly - I've 3 packages that should have all arrived by now, but none have! Anticipation....argh! :P



daniel

[Steven Hsieh]

Can anyone tell me the difference between the O-1 Tool Steel Chisels andBevel Edge Socket Chisels ?

[Sam Babbage]

Can anyone tell me the difference between the O-1 Tool Steel Chisels andBevel Edge Socket Chisels ? They are the same chisels except for the steel they are made from. The standard chisels are A2 steel and the O1s are, funnily enough, O1 steel. There has been countless discussions on the differences between the two, but a short précis is: A2 is harder, the edge will last longer, but they require a slightly higher angle and are more difficult to sharpen. O1 isn't quite as durable but will take a keener edge, will take a lower angle and are easier to sharpen.Either type will do fine for any bench work you could throw at a bevel edge chisel. It's pretty much a matter of preference which steel one prefers. Chopping dovetails in abrasive woods all day? A2 is probably better choice but O1 will do fine. Paring lambs-tongue chamfers? O1 with a lower angle and keener edge would be better, but again; A2 will do the job just fine.

[Dale Cruea]

Mike, I have both LV honing guides and both do this. I agree that the MKll is a bit more touchy about holding a chisel. You have to get the holding bar really flat across the chisel. I have tried, checked and rechecked these guides. Something is out a small amount on the wheel axle and I can't seem to figure it out.
My take on O-1 to A-2.
In die making I used O-6 a little. It was more for wear then shear. It hardened well. Hardened with oil and seemed to move less during hardening. The center of the steel did not appear to get as hard as water hardened or air hardened steel.
Again this was O-6 not O-1. I think A-2 is an air hardened steel.
I worked with some steels we called A-2. If I remember correctly A-2 moved around a lot during heat treat. It moved if you got it warm/hot. We welded a lot on steels.
I use A-2 but from what I am reading everywhere that O-1 is also a good steel.
One is likely as good as the other for wood working tools.
The best steel I ever used was D-2. As with any steel you can over harden it. It can be hard to grind or stone. Not really brittle like some hardened steels. The only real problem I had with it is that it would cause other softer steels to gauld up real bad.

[Steven Hsieh]

They are the same chisels except for the steel they are made from. The standard chisels are A2 steel and the O1s are, funnily enough, O1 steel. There has been countless discussions on the differences between the two, but a short précis is: A2 is harder, the edge will last longer, but they require a slightly higher angle and are more difficult to sharpen. O1 isn't quite as durable but will take a keener edge, will take a lower angle and are easier to sharpen.Either type will do fine for any bench work you could throw at a bevel edge chisel. It's pretty much a matter of preference which steel one prefers. Chopping dovetails in abrasive woods all day? A2 is probably better choice but O1 will do fine. Paring lambs-tongue chamfers? O1 with a lower angle and keener edge would be better, but again; A2 will do the job just fine.

If you compare the O-1 chisels to pfeil chisels
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000300/10018/pfeil-Swiss-made-Chisel-Set-4-piece.aspx

or

cabinetmaker chisels.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000295/988/Cabinetmakers-Chisel-Set-4-pc--14-12-34-and-1.aspx

Are they all pretty much the same standard? or different manufactor procedure.

[Jim Neeley]

Comparing Pfiel to L-N is like comparing Chevy to Ford (you pick the brands); different manufacturers..

Comparing O-1 to A-2 is more akin to comparing gasoline and diesel engines. :-)

[Trevor Walsh]

I sharpen freehand, it just takes practice.

[James Baker SD]

I polished the backs of my LN chisels to mirror shine level (I know, probably a waste of time). Then I had trouble with the LV honing guide gripping them tightly enough to stay square to the stone. I assumed that they were too smooth to grip, but maybe it was the taper that caused the problem.

James

[James Owen]

Aside from the different steel used to make them, the main difference between the LN O-1 and the A-2 chisels are the sizes available. With the O-1, only the 5 standard sizes (1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4) are available. If you want the in-between sizes (i.e., the other chisels in the 9 chisel set), and/or the 1" chisel, you'll currently have to go with the A-2 chisels.

[glenn bradley]

The LV honing guide Mkll is what I have. I just wondered if anyone else was having trouble. I can adjust it out. Thought I might be doing something wrong.




Oh, now I understand what you were talking about. Yeah I have noticed that when rotating the knob for a slightly-higher-angle microbevel, it does tend to change the angle along the edge as well. Must be something about the eccentric mechanism inside the roller.


If you are getting and uneven micro bevel with the Mk II, either you or the jig are malfunctioning. Turning the knob changes the location of the entire axle for the roller, so the bevels should remain exactly parallel to one another. This is based on hundreds of uses, not just hearsay. Most likely, you are getting some skewing from the chisel shifting in the jig. The Mk II does a poor job of holding L-N chisels because they taper in thickness and the jig clamp does not adjust for this. Actually an Eclipse copy holds the chisels very well. I am using the Mk II less and less now and just depending on the Mk II for scraper plane irons and skewed irons. That is just a personal choice.

I second Mike's comments and share his experience. The eccentric rotation of that mechanism causing a shift in plane is unlikely. I wonder if the chisel is seated squarely to begin with. If it were out of square the shifting of the angle would emphasize it, no?.

[Dale Cruea]

I don't know Glen. I am still thinking about what would cause it. On a 2 3/8 plane iron when I check it on my surface plate I can not get .001 under it anywhere. After I rotate the knob to the highest setting(about 2 degrees) I can get about .0025 under the left corner.
It is always the same corner for both guides. Strange.... just plain strange.

[Andy Margeson]

I have had similar problems with mine and concluded that I must be shifting the chisel slightly as I hone. I saw a video recently of someone using the MK II "backwards," i.e., with the edge of the chisel facing you. Doing that, being very careful not to tweak the chisel and correcting subtly with side pressure after looking at the edge after every few strokes has greatly reduced the problem. I can free hand the larger chisels but find it difficult on the narrow ones.

[Pedro Reyes]

I don't know Glen. I am still thinking about what would cause it. On a 2 3/8 plane iron when I check it on my surface plate I can not get .001 under it anywhere. After I rotate the knob to the highest setting(about 2 degrees) I can get about .0025 under the left corner.
It is always the same corner for both guides. Strange.... just plain strange.

If for any reason there is a slight skew on what you are sharpening, then raising the angle would show light on one side wouldn't it? But I can't see how raising the roller would shift to one side, unless of course your jig is deffective.

I have the MK2 and have not seen this issue.

/p

[Michael Peet]

Dale, I have experienced the same exact issue with the LV honing guide. It has never been enough to impact the usefulness though - plane blades can be set square in the plane with the lateral adjuster, and the chisels just aren't wide enough to make a difference. Sharp is more important.

Best of luck,

Mike

[Dale Cruea]

Now that I know that either my technique or the guide has a problem I just keep an eye on it. Not a major problem. I just readjust the iron or chisel if I rotate the knob.
Funny thing is also, I rotated the knob to the 2 Degree mark, Set up an iron and checked it. Yep.... High about .002 on the same corner. I set it to the square fixture on the MK ll. Strange...
I works better than hand honing. I like it and I will continue to use them both.

BTW...
I use my new chisels for the first time today.
WOW
I can now see how you guys are getting clear lines on your dovetails.
These things cut through wood (quarter sawn oak) like soft butter.
Some of the best money I have ever spent on tools.

[David Keller NC]

If you compare the O-1 chisels to pfeil chisels
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000300/10018/pfeil-Swiss-made-Chisel-Set-4-piece.aspx

or

cabinetmaker chisels.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000295/988/Cabinetmakers-Chisel-Set-4-pc--14-12-34-and-1.aspx

Are they all pretty much the same standard? or different manufactor procedure.

Steven - I don't have the Pfiel cabinetmaker's chisels, but do have a couple of hundred Pfiel carving tools. I have a couple of the Sorby boxwood-handled cabinetmaker's chisels, and the set of L-N O-1 and A-2 chisels.

Here is my take on the differences- Pfiel has figured out how to make an extraordinary steel. Most high-speed alloy steels aren't suitable for cabinetmaker's tools, because it's very difficult to get an extremely sharp edge. That's not because of the steel's hardness, but the grain structure - when polished to a very fine grit, most of the Cr-V steels tend to tear at the edge, defeating your efforts to sharpen them to "scary sharp". Pfiel has figured out a way around this, but I don't know the specifics. Their carving tools are, in my opinion, some of the best in the world. They will take an incredibly fine edge, and that edge stands up to moderate chopping without fracturing.

The only downside to Pfiel tools is that their bolster/handles are of a lesser quality then one might hope for in premium tools. But that's a very minor downside - they're still very serviceable. The advantage that L-N chisels have over these is that they are socket chisels, and not only is it absolutely impossible to fracture the handle at the chisel/handle connection with hard chopping, it is also very easy to make your own handles to fit your hand, or to gain a longer grip for 2-handed paring.

The Sorbys? My opinion is that they let their lawyers in on the design process - they seem to be made with the goal of making it absolutely impossible to shatter the chisel steel, no matter how ham-handed the user is. The steel is very soft, and the honed edge breaks down very quickly compared to Pfiel or L-N tools. The chisel is way too thick, which leads to a very imbalanced and overall way too heavy tool. For the price, I would recommend staying away from these.

The reason one might choose to own both the O-1 and A-2 versions of the L-N chisels is dedicating them to different purposes and materials. The recommended final cutting angle for the A-2 is 30 degrees or more. That means that they will stand up very well to chopping in hard woods like maple, cherry and walnut. The recommended final cutting angle for the O-1 chisels is 25 degrees (though one could easily hone them to 30-35 degrees and make the edge tougher). In a soft secondary wood like Eastern White Pine or Basswood, the higher-angle A-2s then to tear the end grain rather than cut it cleanly, especially when driven by light mallet taps as one would for chopping out dovetails. The lower cutting angle of the O-1s produce a considerably sharper apparent edge, and will cut soft species very cleanly. But driving them with a mallet into hard cabinet woods tends to fracture the edge.

By way of example, it is not unusual for dedicated carvers to have a separate, smaller set of tools specifically ground at a shallower cutting angle for hand-driven-only carving in soft woods like Basswood and EWP.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Having some chisels for 30 and some for lower angles is nice . . . while I don't have the option of luxury of choosing between two Lie Nielsen chisels, using the vintage chisels I have for dovetails, I like to have two the same size, one ground at 30 for chopping out the majority of the waste, and one at a very low angle for the final paring cuts by hand to baseline . . .

I read mentions of A2 being recommended for angles of at least 30 degrees? Why is that? I've never really heard it explained. I know my block plane and shooting board blade for my LAJ are A2 and ground at around 25 and seem to work okay, but planes see different wear than chisels.