Grain direction, ploughs, and rebates

[Mark Baldwin III]

An idea floating around in my head (there's plenty of room) involves running a groove down one side of a board and cutting a rebate on the opposite. Er...if the board is on my bench, they will both be on the top face. I know that one of these cuts will have to be made against the grain. My question to you, is which one would you prefer to have to cut against the grain? Or would you find a way to make it so that it was a non-issue. I think I have an idea to alleviate the problem, but many of my ideas are turds.

[Chris Griggs]

Whichever one requires less wood removal (probably the groove) - when working against the grain running grooves or rebates the key is to use relatively light passes, so I guess whenever one was less deep, that I could get done quicker using a light pass.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

well, if you had a left handed fenced plane, you wouldn't need to go against the grain, but I'd just be tempted to make the rebate with an unfenced rabbet plane, using a batten if you need help guiding it. With no fence to get in the way, you can cut from either side to follow the grain.

If it's awkward to reach over the piece to cut on the opposite side, simply operate on the close side using a pulling cut (like an eastern plane) rather than a pushing one.

If I *had* to go against the grain on one, I'd pick the one that won't show - if the rebate is a show face, go with the grain on that. (although you could cut it against the grain and then clean up the show faces with a rabbet plane)

Good stock selection really helps here. Pick something really straight grained (if you have the patience, recutting a piece from something larger, following grain direction) will really help.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Just to make sure I'm not totally missing things - you're making a shape kind of like this?

211543

Also, consider that there's two places to attack a rebate, since it's open from both ends - depending on the grain of the wood, you may be able to cut the groove in the standard fashion, and tip the wood on edge and cut the rebate from the thin edge.

[Zach Dillinger]

If the drawing that Joshua has provided is the shape you are making, you don't need another plane. You can cut the groove from the front edge with the grain, using the plow, then fix a wider iron in the plow and use that like a sash filletster plane, referencing the same front edge but cutting the rabbet on the back edge with the plow, also with the grain. Your plow will make both cuts, provided you have a wide enough iron for the plow. Alternatively, a sash filletster will work extremely well, but they are much less common and you may not have one.

If you are going to do this, I would recommend marking out the joinery with a marking gauge, don't just rely on the settings on the plane.

If my description doesn't make sense, feel free to PM me.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Zach's got a good point - even though I was thinking a wide board, I drew a narrow one, and if the board's not too wide, a plough could do both cuts easily.

[Jim Koepke]

Even though it is seldom shown in illustrations (except maybe ebay) a Stanley 45, after type 7, can have the fence set up for left handed use.

jtk

[Mark Baldwin III]

Joshua, that's exactly the shape I want to cut. And now that I think about it, it may be narrow enough to allow my plough to cut the rebate on the back side. I knew I bought those extended rods for my plough plane for a reason! Thanks for the help, everyone.

[Jim Matthews]

You can easily clamp or tack a batten in the middle to act as a fence, if your fence won't reach.

You might also want to consider using a flush cut saw to define the sides of each cut, as you begin.
That gives the blade a path of least resistance to follow. This article (http://www.woodwork-magazine.com/index.php/archives/88) explores the idea around figure 13.

I find that it works best if I keep scoring the shoulder line (against the batten) with my marking knife as I work my way down.