Workbench Design Opinions

[Greg Hairston]

I am in the process of building an work bench. The top is 2.75" Maple with cherry accents. The base is Cherry and walnut. I currently have the top completed and attached to the bench for flattening. I purchased a front vise and Tail Vice from Lee Valley and now I am considering omitting the tail vice.
Here is my reasoning. I have a festool MFT and it uses these cool clamp that fit into dog holes. Those of you that are familiar with the MFT know what I am talking about. They are adjustable and hold the work securly. Now I was thinking just use these instead of the tail vice.

What are your thought. The purpose of the tail vice is to hold work on the table using the dog holes. These clamps do the same job....

Greg H

[Jim Becker]

I didn't bother with a tail vice on my new bench...but I did put dog holes so I can use the LV Veritas "wonder pups" to secure something if necessary.

[Greg Hairston]

Jim,
How are they working out. Have you done any Hand planeing. Do they hold well. I am definitely leaning this direction.

Greg

[Roy Wall]

Greg,

I use a "wonder dog" for and end vise......I can plane with no problem. The key, for efficiency, is to have a dog hole close enough to the end of the bench that you can easily turn the "dog/pup screw" around and around without clanking into the bench. 2 inches is about right to give "clearance" to turn/tighten...etc....

The one drawback is the brass "dog" sits 5/8" above the bench......so thin stock planing would require some ingenuity.

sounds like an Awesome bench...........let us have a look at the progress/ or when your done:)

[Alan Turner]

I am a pro-tailviser. I use it for many things other than planing. Mine is the traditional design. Since your bench is one of your primary WW tools, don't hesitate to put the time into making a good, long term tool.

[Mark Singer]

A lot of thought has gone into the traditional bench. The tail vise is an important part of that. It supports long boards on edge and allows clamping to the face of the bench quickly and securly. I am at that end a lot with planes ,rasps, spokeshaves, routers and sanders, It is really an asset.

[Steve Wargo]

I agree that the tail vice is important. Not only from a traditional standpoint, but from a usfulness standpoint. A good sturdy one is easy to make, and will be well worth the time. While my bench is horrid to look at, and was actually my very first totally hand tool project, it works fine and I couldn't imagine life without a tail vice. Just my $.02

[Jim Becker]

I need to clear up that I will likely add a tail vice to my bench at a later date--probably the Veritas. It was more of an economic decision at the time I was putting my current bench in service.

[Louis Bois]

Greg,

You can never have too many clamping systems on the bench...provided that none of them are cumbersome to your way of working. The Festool MFT clamps have their uses, but also limitations. The clamp jaws would limit the material thickness that you could hold effectively...and they would be a bit more awkward to use than a proper tail vise...and besides, since you've already purchased the tail vise hardware from Lee Valley, why not use it?!?

Good luck completing the bench...and please do post pics when it's done.

[Steve Cox]

One of the things I like to do with my twin screw vise is to hold drawer parts between the screws for dovetailing. It's very secure that way and I have no worries about racking like I would on my face vise (Record).

[James Mittlefehldt]

I have a bench that is approximatly 27 inches wide and I have the LEe VAlley Twin Screw Vise across the end with jaws that are full width. I also built into the bench a way of securing boards for jointing, I think the twin screw used this way as an end vise is invaluable and even though it was the single most expensive item on the bench it was worth it.

I also have four rows of dog holes on eight inch centres all the way down the bench as well, so I can use a bench dog and wonder pup anywhere I want for chiseling or planing. I also have four holes in the jaw of the vice as well.

[Don Carkhuff]

A lot of thought has gone into the traditional bench. The tail vise is an important part of that. It supports long boards on edge and allows clamping to the face of the bench quickly and securly. I am at that end a lot with planes ,rasps, spokeshaves, routers and sanders, It is really an asset.
Yesterday I re-read Issue #34 Finewoodworking about planes and techniques by Ian Kirby. He suggests that when edge planing you should put the end of the board against a stop with the board on a bench top surface. No clamping is required. He suggested that if you do this, you will learn proper technique for square edge planing because if your technique is off, the board will flop to one side. I tried it yesterday and was a complete, pathetic klutz. I suppose I could/need to practice.

[Tim Sproul]

Yesterday I re-read Issue #34 Finewoodworking about planes and techniques by Ian Kirby.

One thing to keep in mind......to do so you need to be able to saw reasonably well first. If the sawn edge sitting on the benchtop isn't reasonably square and flat, you'll have a bitch of time edge planing regardless of good technique.

[Greg Hairston]

Well thanks to all the input and Alan Turner I am going with the tail vice. I spoke with Alan on the phone yesterday and he not only convinced me to do the vice he also had me working until the wee hours of the morning resawing my benchtop slab for the installation of the vice.

Alan I appreciate you time and you were right. resawing the slab was the best option.
Now I have to go take more motrin for my backache caused from lugging around that 150lb slab

Greg H

[Alan Turner]

Greg,
Nice to meet you by phone. With the exception of your back ache, for which I disclaim any responsibility, I am sure you will come to appreciate your tail vise. Now all you will need is an Emmert to complete the bench.

I am about to embark on building the first of a series of 11 benches, and so will be a bit more empathetic of your lifting issues shortly. I have some 12/4 flame grain birch "laying" around, and just getting it to the basement will be a real struggle. I am not looking forward to the task of wrestling these slabs, but have no choice as I see it.

[Roy Wall]

Greg,
Nice to meet you by phone. With the exception of your back ache, for which I disclaim any responsibility, I am sure you will come to appreciate your tail vise. Now all you will need is an Emmert to complete the bench.

I am about to embark on building the first of a series of 11 benches, and so will be a bit more empathetic of your lifting issues shortly. I have some 12/4 flame grain birch "laying" around, and just getting it to the basement will be a real struggle. I am not looking forward to the task of wrestling these slabs, but have no choice as I see it.
Alan,

are you making those for a school? All identical, or each with variations??

[Alan Turner]

Roy,

You are correct. Several partners and I bought a 25,000 foot industrial building in the Germantown section of Philadelphia. It needs a bit of fixing up, but each of the two floors is essentially one large room, 115 x 100 feet, with a small titular "office" wing. The second floor, where I will put the teaching studio, is serviced by an old fashioned conveyor belt configuration, which is quite efficient. It has perimeter windows, and in the center a monitor style of skylight which is 10 ft. by 40 ft, with center pivoting operating windows.

The benches are for the teaching studio. There will be several variations. Most will have the traditional tail vise configuration. Several will be the Charlesworth style, with a removable bottom center tool well, and these will have the twin screw end vices. Several will have adjustable height legs, from Geoff Noden of Trenton, NJ.

I am collecting shoulder vices at this time. Have 4 old quick action ones, and 3 are Richards-Wilcox. I also have collected two No. 1 Emmerts, both Turtlebacks, and 2 Yosts (which need new front faces). The Emmerts and Yosts are patternmaker's vices. Just need 3 more, and am on the prowl. Maybe the PATINA show will yield a few.

I am just now starting the "teacher's bench" as I have some 12/4 birch planks, 9 feet long. My bench will be large, but the balance will be 6 or 7 foot benches. The birch is a bit twisted, and is quite old. Probably 40 or 50 years; I acquired it when I bought out the inventory of a retiring furniture maker. There was also much other wood of interest in this collection. Some old mahogany (300 ft.), some 16/4 Wenge, ton of soft maple (he did a lot of upholstered work and this was frame shock for him), and a bunch of 12/4 and 16/4 walnut leg stock. Some of the birch is flame grain, I think, so it could be a bit showy, if it hold to flat. On that point we will just have to see.

I am trying to source 12/4 benchtop stock now, and a fellow is currently kiln drying some 12/4 Am. Beech, quartersawn, as a test. I want to see if it is sufficiently stable for benchtop use. If so, I will buy enough for my benches, and enough for a future class which will be to build a bench. I think some fellows have trouble building a bench because the size of the planks are not compatible with smaller tooling. A 12" or larger jointer, and a 20" or larger planer, sure does simplify the task. I plan to put these larger tools in the studio.

[Roy Wall]

Alan,


Wow!! What a project----------I now remember your post on that building...

I keep on thinking that my bench---and I'd better get around to it in the next 4-6 months----would use a traditional tail vise and the LV twin screw as a face vise; a la Bob Keys design somewhat. I just love a tall bench (40")---but its too hard to plane....I like that adj height idea....

The LN bench @ the KCWW show was traditional tail/ face vise version, with a very thick 6" front portion that housed the square wooden dogs before trimming to around 3" in the middle to the back edge. It had removable 1/4" ply planks in the tool well for cleaning / clamping.

Your work is "expert" Alan, I look forward to seeing these benches:)

[Alan Turner]

Roy,
I will post pix when complete. My preference is for a single thickness of top, without the heavier front edge. My current day to day bench is 12/4 maple, and I can bang on it anywhere without deflection. I see not much advantage to a 6", or even 4", front "edge" which I know is somewhat traditional.
As to your "expert" designation, that is a bit over the top, and fairly debatable (at best).

[Roy Wall]

Roy,
As to your "expert" designation, that is a bit over the top, and fairly debatable (at best).
Not in my book:) ---you're one of the 'go to" guys:) :)

And yes, I agree a 3 " uniform thickness top throughout should be plenty.....