Bowl Drying: Methanol vs Ethanol Alcohol?

[alex grams]

Is there any difference in drying bowls with Methanol vs Ethanol Alcohol? I have been trying to find some Denatured Alcohol for bowl drying, but all of it is around $85 or more for 5 gallons . Whereas I can find 5 gallons of a 50/50 methyl/ethyl blend for $60 shipped, but the MSDS says it is 45-50% Ethyl, 45-50% Methyl, and 1-4% Methyl Isobutyl Ketone.

Would that mix work for bowl drying?

For comparison, Crown Denatured Alcohol (the 1gallon at Lowes/HD for $16-$17/gallon) is 65-75% Methanol, 20-30% Ethanol, <10% Isopropyl, <10% Methyl Isobutyl Ketone.

Thanks in advance.

[Bill Luce]

Both work fine. I try to avoid methanol as it is nastier. I have been advised it goes right through organic respirator catridges, for example.

[Dan Hintz]

Neglecting any potential health issues, either will work essentially as well. You're merely trying to displace the water in the bowl with a highly volatile (i.e., evaporates quickly) replacement. Either of these are significantly more volatile than water.

[alex grams]

I agree Bill on the Methanol part being nasty. I work in the offshore Oil & Gas and had to develop some shipping/handling specifications for our boat crews when handling/pumping the stuff. Nothing like a hundred cubic meters of methanol in the holds.

This is the product I can find locally for $32 per 5 gallons +tax (~8$/gallon) whereas the cheapest I can find >75% Ethanol is about $14/gallon. (http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/904-specialty-thinners/7466.html)

http://www.academyfloor.com/images/s_l_x_denatured_alcohol.JPG

Here is a link to a PDF copy of the MSDS (http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat2/MSDS/MSDS%20-%20SLX.pdf)

vs Crown Denatured Alcohol (http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat2/MSDS/MSDS%20-%20Crown.pdf)

[Michael Ginsberg]

Alex, I MIGHT ME MISSING SOMETHING HERE....
I pay about $10. for a gallon of denatured alch. I just checked on-line and five gallons is about ?30. (Klean Strip Brand).
I think you might want to double check your prices... I hope this helps.
Michael

[alex grams]

Michael, I think we are saying the same thing. Check my edited post right before yours. The SLX brand though is the 50/50 methanol/ethanol blend, whereas the more 'pure' 75%+ ethanol is $14/gallon and up.

I was just trying to see if there is much of a difference in the 75/25 blend vs the 50/50 blend.

[Michael Ginsberg]

OK. I was confused I guess. I did not know about all the different mixtures. I assumed all DNA's were created equal.

[Prashun Patel]

That's pretty interesting. I never realized the SLX DNA from Kleenstrip has 50% methanol! Personally, I wouldn't touch methanol. If you read an MSDS for pure methanol, the European risk and safety phrases list it as a danger if inhaled or contacted with skin.

Ethanol contains no similar listed danger. I would pay extra for the ethanol and sleep/breathe a little easier.

We use methanol at my company sparingly. D.N. Ethanol, which is what I'll be refering to instead of DNA any more is used with more reputed toxicological safety. It's a common ingredient in perfumes, and room sprays - items that are inhaled or subject to skin contact.

[Toney Robertson]

Or could just save your money and use time as a drying method.

It works for me.

[Jeff Fagen]

Why would anyone want to fool around with the danger and expence when there are so many other ways to dry wood?

[alex grams]

I am all ears on drying. Like I said, I am new to the entire turning thing, so I am just trying to garner as much knowledge from fellow creekers as possible.

[Scott Hackler]

Alex, regular DNA is available at professional paint supply stores (Sherwin Williams around here) for less than $48 per 5 gallon. Dangerous, like all flamable liquids, but not overly harmful (like methanol) if you stick you hand in it or breath the vapor. If fact this thread reminds me that Sherwin Williams called yesterday and said my 5 gal pail was in! lol

[alex grams]

I called a local Sherwin Williams, they quoted $85 for 5 gallons of DNA... :(

[Prashun Patel]

Alex-
I'm doing a fair amount of DNEthanol and Anchorseal drying, but you might also try just finish turning your green wood and then letting it dry in a double brown paper bag or a closed paper bag full of shavings for about 2 weeks. You can learn a lot about warp and cracking. In fact, some woods are remarkably stable and won't warp all that much. Often the warp is pleasing.

[alex grams]

Ive seen that Prashun. I am going to give a run at several methods.

Thanks for all of your replies. I have been hitting this forum pretty heavily lately and you have been giving constant help/advise.

[Bill Luce]

His prices are about right here. With online, shipping eats the price. My last buy was a 55 gallon barrel, and even then it came out almost $10 a gallon. If I could find it locally for that in 5 gallons I would be happy.

Also note the water content is all over the map. My barrel contains over 6% water, unhappily. I would have preferred less than 1 percent given how expensive the stuff is.

On paper the slx green looks promising, but they don't sell bulk yet.

[Jamie Donaldson]

I most often turn to finish size as a requirement with hollow vessels, and cure in a brown paper bag, AKA Polish kiln, but without the shavings that only promote mushroom farming. Learning the curing as well as the turning characteristics of a variety of woods is part of the turning/learning process, and you learn as you turn!

[Wally Dickerman]

Personally I have never messed with DNA drying. All of my blanks are well coated on end grain with Anchorseal. I rough turn them and heavily coat them with Johnson't paste wax. Double coat on those that need it. I store the rough turns on an open shelf in my shop. Each is dated. In 6 months or less time they are dry and ready to finish turn. The rough turned pieces that are of a wood that is prone to cracking, I'll store in paper bag for a month or so until it's stabilized. Been using this method for a lot of years very successfully.

The pic is of about 70 rough turned pieces in various stages of drying. None are cracked unles there was a crack before I started. I live in hot, dry Arizona where wood can crack very readily.

[Michael Ginsberg]

My DNA says "odorless". And does not mention anything else.
Is that plain DNA?

[Scott Hackler]

I picked up my 5 gallons yesterday and they tried to charge me $94! I said "that's almost double the last bucket" and they made a call to the manager and then charged me $50! Quite the markup in Dna!

[Dan Hintz]

My DNA says "odorless". And does not mention anything else.
Is that plain DNA?
I'm wondering how you can have "odorless" DNA... it's the nature of the beast for alcohol to have that recognizable odor, considering how volatile it is.

[Jason Roehl]

Just for a little clarification:

Ethanol = ethyl alcohol = grain alcohol = the potent ingredient in adult beverages
Methanol = methyl alcohol = wood alcohol = very poisonous and can cause blindness if ingested

Both are miscible with water. That is, either of them can be fully dissolved in water (or water dissolved in them) at any proportion, from 0%/100% to 100%/0%.

It is caused DENATURED alcohol because the ethanol used to be plentiful and cheap to make, but to sell it cheap it had to be made poisonous so that no excise tax would be applied (and so that hardware stores wouldn't need a liquor license to sell it). I suspect that the variations in price may have to do with proximity to an ethanol production facility. I'm sure that Texans probably aren't too fond of ethanol for obvious reasons, so it's more expensive there.

[Bernie Weishapl]

After reading post here like from Wally and listening to Mike Mahoney I pretty much gave up DNA drying. I anchorseal my turnings completely and sit them on the floor in a room that stays around 68* to 70* with little air movement. Like Wally I have a stash that when dry will last me several months. So I just keep adding.

[David E Keller]

I've all but stopped using DNA lately... I've just been coating my roughouts with anchorseal, and so far, I've been pretty happy. I didn't have any problems with the DNA, but I found that I didn't really need to rush the process of drying.