"Next" Hand Plane Decision...

[Joe Leigh]

A question for all Neander hand plane gurus. I am in the process of building my first and hopefully last real workbench. It's a Shaker style bench designed by Benchcrafted. The question concerns flattening the top, which is where the project stands right now.
I have been making an effort to learn about and use hand planes in my future work, that's the main reason for the workbench build.
I currently own a new LN low angle block plane and LN #4 with 55deg frog, both awesome tools.
So the question is which plane should I invest in to flatten the top and to still be useful for future work. I work mainly making jewelry boxes and small pieces of furniture and I don't want to purchase a #7 or #8 if I'm not realistically going to need it in the future. Is there a smaller plane that can handle this task and still be useful to me in the type of work I do? Would you recommend bevel up or down?
I've already decided that whichever one it is it will be a quality tool like Lie Nielsen or Veritas.
Thanks in advance for all your insight here....

[Steve Southwood]

Joe, I can't really give any advice on that plane choice, new myself. But, please post up some finished pictures of that bench when you are done. That is a great looking piece.

[Chris Griggs]

I'm a big fan of the no.6 - it works great as a jointer for most furniture sized pieces, works well on a shooting board, can be set up to do either fairly course or fairly fine work, and should do a perfectly acceptable job on your benchtop. If you want something for flattening that isn't as big a no.7 or 8 a 6 would be a good option. For a lot of your work you could actually probably get away with a 5, 5.5, or BU jack, but I think a 6 would give you a bigger range.

As for which brand, personally I'd go with an LN if money's no object (no I don't own it), but that's just because I like the bedrock design.

EDIT: BTW, I do the same scale of work as you and my 6 is probably my most used bench plane, and when I built my bench it was the biggest plane I had so it's what got used on my top.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I would get a jack and a jointer. If I could only get one, I'd get the jointer, I guess, and a couple of blades. On more than one occasion, I've used a jointer for roughing in like I would with a jack, but it can be a little tougher to use a jack for a jointers purpose, on larger pieces. The long sole of the jointer makes things easier. The jack, you can afford to go cheap on if you plan to primarily use it for rough work, get a decent old plane and clean it up a bit. The jointer is a nice plane to put a bit of cash into. I like the bevel down jointers simply because they're cheaper than the bevel up ones when you're looking at new planes, but I prefer the feel of the bevel down plane. The adjustable mouth and ease of changing blade angles is handy at times.

Honestly, if you do anything larger than small boxes, a jointer is very nice to have. If you really think you're not going to ever do work large enough that you need a jointer, I'd counter that you then don't need a bench long enough to warrant being levelled by one!

[Jim Belair]

If you don't see much future use for a larger plane you could also get a woody in jack or larger size to minimize your investment. Should be able to pick one up for $30-40.

JimB

[Joe Leigh]

Honestly, if you do anything larger than small boxes, a jointer is very nice to have. If you really think you're not going to ever do work large enough that you need a jointer, I'd counter that you then don't need a bench long enough to warrant being levelled by one!

Ha! good point!
Actually the bench is scaled down slightly, from 7-1/2' to 6-1/2' due to space constraints. I have no problem investing in a new quality plane I just don't see a future need for a #7 or #8 if something smaller can work for me.
Not sure though, that's why I'm asking.

[Shlomo Hoffmann]

Based on your typical type of work, jewelry boxes and small pieces of furniture, I'd recommend the LN-62. It is a BU Jack/Block that can be "stretched" or "shrunk" in use from small stuff to bench-top smoothing.

To me, it is the real Jack-of-all-trades; the first I reach for, and the last plane ever that I will part with. I use it routinely for both big and small stuff. As a bevel-up plane it offers a variety of "custom" irons, including a toothed iron for fast stock removal, and you can adapt it easily to almost any desirable bevel angle you see fit for a particular job, including smoothing table tops and workbenches (which I did, BTW) and even a Miter Planer (which I do as well...).

LV offers a similar plane, but as I like the feel of the classical tote much better, my personal preference goes for LN.

[Jim Neeley]

Joe,

You indicate you are going to be making small boxes and, if that's by hand or you want top quality/accuracy you'll probably be using a shooting board in your work.

A shooting board requires a plane whise side is perpendicular to the sole and the wider it is the easier it is to balance. You could use a #5 or smaller plane for this, "powering" through the cuts or you could use a heavier plane (#6, #7 or #8)and let momentum be your friend. You get the plane moving before the cutter hits your stock anyway and that 10# jointer will then glide through like butter.

It'd be a bit of money to spend if it was solely for shooting but it might tip the scale if you have a short-term use where it'd really help and can also take advantage of it in the long-term.

Opinions are like noses, everbody has one and YMMV. :)

Jim

[Kees Heiden]

Last week I reflattened my 6' bench. I had to remove quite some cupping, over a mm I guess. I mainly used a Stanley #6 with a cambered blade, crossgrain (side to side) and meassured often to see where I needed to remove more wood. he I went at it diagonaly still with the same plane. Last was my #7 with a rather straight blade in the length direction. But I could have used another plane just as well, because the bench was flat allreasy. It wouldn't be too difficult with just one #6, first with a cambered blade, then the last smooting passes with straight blade.

[Chris Griggs]

Ha! good point!
Actually the bench is scaled down slightly, from 7-1/2' to 6-1/2' due to space constraints. I have no problem investing in a new quality plane I just don't see a future need for a #7 or #8 if something smaller can work for me.
Not sure though, that's why I'm asking.

With smaller work, the place I find I prefer something bigger than my 6 is if I want to joint a longer (3-4ft)board before I do initial breakdown. Most of my stock prep occurs after I have cut things roughly to length which means a no 5 or 6 is often preferred since I'm often jointing small to medium pieces. Recently however, I was dimensioning a piece that was going to be used for a lots of very small. 6-8"x2.5" drawer parts. In this case the preference was to leave the board long, and hit it with a large jointer, since individually dimensioning all those little pieces was a pain. It depends a lot on how you work.

The more I think about it though the more I think you will be glad to have a largish plane - given what your building, I still think a 6 is a likley good choice for your needs, but I think if you got a 7 or 8 you would find yourself using it quite a bit.

[Prashun Patel]

Personally, I'd get a #5. I have the Veritas Low Angle Jack which I find extremely versatile for both flattening and edge jointing. Many people love the #6, but for me, I'd rather have a #5 and a #7.

I wouldn't get a single plane hoping that it'll be the last plane you buy. A year from now, you'll be looking for yr next, be it a jointer, a shoulder, or otherwise...

[Rob Fisher]

You could alway get a jointer (7 or 8 sized), whatever brand, new or used, then if you don't need/want it you can most likely sell it and recover 85%-90% of what you paid. Think of the loss as a rental fee and experienced gained.

[Zach Dillinger]

If you don't see much future use for a larger plane you could also get a woody in jack or larger size to minimize your investment. Should be able to pick one up for $30-40.

JimB

I'm with Jim on this, but I really like using wooden planes. You can get a decent 26" or larger woodie jointer for next to nothing, sharpen it, use it, then you'd be able to sell it to a guy like me. But, I bet you'd keep it... and you'd never have to worry about recouping your money, since you'd be out of pocket very little.

Z

[Joe Leigh]

You could alway get a jointer (7 or 8 sized), whatever brand, new or used, then if you don't need/want it you can most likely sell it and recover 85%-90% of what you paid. Think of the loss as a rental fee and experienced gained.

I have considered this....just my luck I'll fall in love with it and slide further down the slope..

[bob blakeborough]

I have the Veritas BU Jointer and it surprises me how much I like using it on smaller boards as well as larger ones. Personally I would go this route AND the LA Jack, but a legitimate argument could be made for either/or...

[Chris Griggs]

I have considered this....just my luck I'll fall in love with it and slide further down the slope..

That's inevitable at this point - you might as well accept it. Just go ahead and get LVs entire bevel up line and LNs entire bevel down line, that should cover most of your needs - of course, then you'll need to get some joinery planes too ;) (sorry I'm realize I'm not helping here, it's just so much fun to spend other people money)

[Jim Koepke]

There are a lot of ways to flatten a bench top.

Though I like the idea of using a few planes to do the job, if I could only use one, it would likely be the #6 with an extra blade. It doesn't have to be a fancy second blade since it would be cambered or toothed to be used diagonally to get rid of the cup. Then a straight blade to do the clean up into the smoothing.

I am not sure if you want to go the "rent a plane" route. If this were the case, then a plane like the #7 or #8 might be a quicker resale.

Another consideration about the kind of work encountered making small boxes and such is the ability to clamp a large plane upside down in a bench vise and trim pieces by moving them across the blade. This can be a lot quicker with the plane stationary and the part being moved.

Even on small pieces, I like a larger plane since it will hold the piece down to the bench better than a short plane.

Two more thoughts...

Maybe someone lives close to you that will let you use their plane. Remember though if you drop and damage it, you have an obligation to make it right.

Then, heck, just buy them all and be done with it! :D

jtk

[Ron Brese]

Having been heavily involved with BenchCrafted in the design process of that bench I may offer some insight. If the field of the top is planed to even thickness you can actually manipulate the flatness of the top when you fasten it to the case structure. If the top has a valley down the middle as mine did, you can always place a couple of shims in the middle of the points where it contacts the dividers in the case and this will pull some of the low spot out of the top. This will lessen the flattening chores by reducing the amount of the material you need to remove. Given that you're going to be primarily working small pieces on this bench the requirement for it to be flat over a large area is actually greatly reduced. You may just want to make sure the dog block strip is flush to the field at the joining point and then just use the bench like it is for a while. Also you may want to leave the top to adjust thru the winter months. If you flatten the top now it may change quite a bit thru the winter as humidity levels decrease which could require further flattening come spring. By spring you'll have several more months of using planes under your belt and will have a much better idea of how to approach this job.

Ron Brese

[David Keller NC]

Joe - Here is your justification (if you wanted one) for a #7 or #8:

I also make small jewelry boxes, humidors, miniature chests, etc... Unless you're primarily making micro boxes in the 4" square range, I think you'll certainly find the need for a #7, if not a #8. The reason has to do with stock prep. When you're making a small desk box in the 10" X 14" range, you typically want the sides all cut from one board, and you want that board to be of constant width and thickness so that the 1st joint matches up with the 4th joint when the board is cut and "folded" together.

So, that means you want at minimum a 54" board to make the sides of that box, and a #7 or #8 is ideal for jointing the face and edges of that plank.

There's no doubt that a #4 and/or a block plane is necessary and useful for smoothing the dovetails of such a box, and a #7 or a #8 is inappropriate for the task. But you will still find a need for it for any box over about 10" X 8".

If you intend to prep stock by hand, though, you really need 2 planes, and it's better if you've got 3: A roughing plane (this can be a "jack" or a "fore" plane - i.e., a #5, a #5-1/2 or a #6), a jointer (the afore-mentioned #7 or #8) and ideally, a smoother (a #3, #4, #4-1/2). What the exact number of these planes are is relatively unimportant. What is important is the relative length of their soles. If you're a model maker, you may want a #3 as your roughing plane, a #5-1/4 as your jointer, and a #2 or a block plane as your smoother. If you're making smaller, but not miniature, items, you may choose a #5 as your roughing plane, a #7 as your jointer, and a #3 or a #4 as your smoother. Large furniture pieces may be best suited to a #6 as a roughing plane, a #8 as the jointer, and a #4-1/2 as a smoother.

[Joe Leigh]

Thanks Dave, Ron and everyone else who offered their expertise. The last thing I want to become is a plane "collector". Not that that's a bad thing....The only way to keep any sanity in this hobby is to purchase only high quality tools and only those tools needed to accomplish our individual goals. Quality hand planes are no small investment so I'm trying to make educated choices.
Thanks again!

[Zach Dillinger]

Thanks Dave, Ron and everyone else who offered their expertise. The last thing I want to become is a plane "collector". Not that that's a bad thing....The only way to keep any sanity in this hobby is to purchase only high quality tools and only those tools needed to accomplish our individual goals. Quality hand planes are no small investment so I'm trying to make educated choices.
Thanks again!

I agree with you about only buying quality, but I'd guess we might have different definitions of "quality". To me, a nicely made wooden plane from the late 19th century is just as high quality as a Lie-Nielsen. Different, for sure, but not lesser. I'm just as happy with my old wooden planes as I would be with any of the new planes, its just a matter of preference.

The LN or LV planes will work wonderfully to flatten your bench, as will wooden planes, Stanley planes, adzes, hatchets, chisels, sharp stones or lasers, when properly utilized. It's all a matter of spending your money. For me, I'd rather spend $25 on a wooden plane and then have a bunch of money left over for wood. But, as always, YMMV.

[Mike Holbrook]

I think the basic thing here is you need a plane with some length to it to flatten surfaces. You can save significant time by finishing whole boards before you cut them into smaller pieces too, again you will want at least one longer plane. The only problem I see with going with middle size 5-6 planes is these are frequently the tools used for rougher work. The rougher plane(s) are not usually where you want to put the most money as precision is not typically there job. The longer planes and smooth planes are more typically where people want their highest quality tools.

Another option I do not think anyone has mentioned is building your own plane(s). I am in the process of building four planes right now (jack, jointer & two smooths with different bed angles). There are plans available and kits you can buy. I am enjoying making my planes and learning a good deal about wood working and planes in the process.

[Ed Looney]

Just a thought. You could buy a good #7 or #8 off the the online bay sight fettle it into good shape use it; then sell it back again. Just put into the description that it a freshly fettled, tuned and tested user. The experience of tuning up a hand plane is always good for a hand tool user.

Ed

[Jim Koepke]

The only way to keep any sanity in this hobby is to purchase only high quality tools and only those tools needed to accomplish our individual goals.

Then who would want to keep any sanity? :eek:

I do not suffer from insanity... I am enjoying every minute of it!

jtk

[Scott Stafford]

I've been told that English furniture maker Alan Peters did almost all of his planing with only a #7 and a block plane. David Charlesworth is very fond of his #5 1/2 "Super Smoother". Albeit both were/are furniture makers, the point being that through experimentation you'll settle in on the plane(s) of your choosing. And, as mentioned, if you buy a L-N #7 or #8 and it doesn't fit your style, you will experience very little depreciation on the resale market.

I have settled in on Veritas BU jack with higher angle blades for difficult grains and a Lie-Nielsen #8 for more standard use and for use on a couple of my shooting boards. It's just what works for me. Well that and a handful (cabinetful?) of smaller planes.

Scott in Montana

[michael osadchuk]

Keep in mind that the process of flattening a workbench top involves the use of winding sticks, straightedges, etc. and the marking of high points throughout the process....if you frequently stop to mark the high points, you could flatten and smooth a benchtop with just a no. 4 plane, with swapping blades set up for scrub, flattening and smoothing stages.

As far as your next plane, I'd get something in the foreplane/jackplane size and the LV bevel up jackplane is pretty versatile.....

good luck

michael

[James Scheffler]

I'm a big fan of the no.6 - it works great as a jointer for most furniture sized pieces, works well on a shooting board, can be set up to do either fairly course or fairly fine work, and should do a perfectly acceptable job on your benchtop. If you want something for flattening that isn't as big a no.7 or 8 a 6 would be a good option. For a lot of your work you could actually probably get away with a 5, 5.5, or BU jack, but I think a 6 would give you a bigger range.

As for which brand, personally I'd go with an LN if money's no object (no I don't own it), but that's just because I like the bedrock design.

EDIT: BTW, I do the same scale of work as you and my 6 is probably my most used bench plane, and when I built my bench it was the biggest plane I had so it's what got used on my top.

+1. I use my Stanley No. 6 more than the No. 5 and jointer put together. Should be good for a benchtop, although for such large-scale work, you may find you have to check what you're doing more with a straight edge than if you had a No. 7 or 8.

Jim S.