stain or dye

[Harry Goodwin]

Up till now all my pen making has used exotics to produce color and never tried dye or stain. I would like it to be as fast a process as possible since finishing a pen in one sitting is ideal. Any suggestiions or products that are easy to use. I've been using CA glue and step 1 as aa final finish. Thanks Harry

[John Keeton]

Harry, I don't do pens, but I have used quite a bit of stain over the years, and for the last couple of years of turning - a lot of dye. I much prefer dyes for impact. Stains are solid pigments suspended in a solvent carrier and do not penetrate the wood very well. Dyes will penetrate and give a much more even color. If you use Transtint in an alcohol base, it will dry very quickly.

[Jon Lanier]

I use dye and have only used it on Maple. I find that it is deep coloring and as John K mentioned, a much more even color. I have not use alcohol based dye, I use water base and use a heat gun to get dried quickly.

[Bob Bergstrom]

+1 for Transtint and alcohol. Alcohol will give a more uniform color than water base, but won't penetrate as deeply. Brushing will absorb a lot of dye while airbrushing will give the most uniform color. Just like the furniture factories spray all their stains and dyes. If you are sanding the dye back, brushing will work better. Spraying the dye allows it to dry so quickly it does not absorb well. I don't think CA will affect either way.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I use a lot of Transtint dye and alcohol. The nice thing about it is you have to do any light sanding after it is applied just spritz it with DNA. It will be there and blend itself nicely.

[Richard Allen]

Dye. MX reactive dye mixed with water. I use this dye because it is the most light fast I have ever used. Water based because I like to use solvent based finishes. A solvent based finish will reactivate solvent mixed dye. Double dye is popular with pens made of light color figured woods such as curly maple. Apply the dark color dye. Sand it back so the color remains in the curl. Apply the light color dye then apply the finish of your choice.

[John Keeton]

A solvent based finish will reactivate solvent mixed dye.Richard, I agree for the most part - particularly shellac and lacquer, either of which will mix with alcohol. However, I have not had any issues with WOP or oils and alcohol based dyes. I suspect CA would react with the alcohol based dyes, although I do not use CA as a finish and I am not real familiar with its characteristics.

[Jim Burr]

CA doesn't have any effect on a dye finish. The alcohol acts as the carrier for the dye and evaporates very quickly. Any liquig present when using CA can cause an issue. The main idea is to let the color dry before applying a finish.

[Harry Goodwin]

Thanks for so muh help. Harry

[Richard Allen]

I do some objects with multiple colors for a design. The colors are separated by burned lines because the dye will bleed and the burned lines stop the bleed. I then use a wipe on poly, after the colors have dried. When I used Prisma color pens (dye-alcohol) and then applied a wipe on poly the color bleed into the wiping cloth and smeared across the colors. I switched to MX reactive dye and used water as the medium. Complete different result. The color stayed exactly where I put it and the wiping cloth did not pick-up any color. It is possible that the MX reactive dye mixed with a solvent would work just as well as when mixed with water. But I have had good success with the water...

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[Steve Schlumpf]

Harry - when I first started getting into woodworking, I used Watco stain. Worked well but I didn't like the way it would actually hide the grain when going for a darker color. When I decided to start adding color to my turnings, I started with RIT powder dyes mixed with denatured alcohol (DNA). Worked fine, dried quickly and only raised the grain a little bit. RIT dyes, I found out, are not light fast, so I started using TransTint mixed with DNA. Nice dyes and I find that by using a fairly diluted mixture, I can keep adding color until I get the hue/saturation that I want. One thing to keep in mind, the final finish you apply may change the color. In my case, I use a wipe-on poly and that will add a slight yellow to the color and the oil base will really darken the intensity. So, I would suggest experimenting before committing to a finish!

Have fun with it! Looking forward to seeing your results!

[Edward Bartimmo]

There is an old expression "Dye for Figure, Stain for Plain". Dyes will penetrate the grain with result being differentiation in the figured grain (brings out the varying depth of the wood). As John stated above stains are solid particulate and act as a surface coat like layering on thinned coat of paint, which is fine if you have a plain piece of wood that you want a nice uniform color.

Alcohol / Dye:
he pros/cons of dissolving the dye in alcohol is that it dries quickly and doesn't raise the grain as much as water does. The downside is that it doesn't penetrate the wood as deeply because the alcohol dries off so quickly. Also, it can be a little problematic adding additional coats of dye if you are wiping it on becasue with each additional coat you are also picking up some of the already on the wood. It sin't as easy to buildup color and at times it seems like you are simply pushing it around the surface with the wet rag. This an also be an issue when applying a wipe-on finish, especially if it is alcohol based, such as lacquer or shellac. An easy solution for locking down the color before finishing is to simply give it a quick coat of spray on lacquer from a can, and then apply whatever finish you want on top. All of the aforementioned alcohol dye issues are eliminated if you are applying with a spray gun....layering iis easy with out any color lifting issues. Spraying may be more hassle then worth for a small project.

Water/Dye:
I have noticed with using dyes dissolved in water that the color penetrates the wood deeper and is more less likely to be pushed around or picked up while adding additional coats. Part of the trick to ensure uniform color application is to lightly wet the entire surface with water so no particular area overabsorbs dye. To avoid some of the grain raising that results from water you can do a light wet sanding before using the dye. Yes, using dye disssolved in water requires a little extra time to allow the wood to dry. However, for large size projects dye dissolved in water will give you sufficient time to apply dye evenly and allow the wood to draw dye deeper into the wood grain.

Which Way is Best:
Depending on what type of effect, amount of color contrast, and time available will determine whether I am using water or alcohol to dissolve dye.

With a Pen....use dye dissolved in alcohol. It is fast and there isn't that much wood to penetrate.

Good Luck