Plough plane question (price and source of blades)

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi guys,

I'm looking into a wooden plough plane that someone has. It's in pretty nice shape (I'm only looking at pictures), with sliding beams, not screws. It's not a handled plane, but the price is good, I think (about $15--I might buy it with some other planes), and it seems complete, with the wedge, etc. He only has one cutter in it, and it looks to be 3/8 or 1/2. Unfortunately, it's not the size I'm looking for really. I'd like to have it with 1/4 or 1/8 for drawer grooves. I'm wondering how hard is it to find the replacements. I've heard they are kind of one off for each plane. Is that really the case. If so, are they hard to modify to make work?

I'm thinking at that price, I shouldn't worry too much, but I don't want to spend a huge amount to find cutters either.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

[David Weaver]

At that price, if it's not broken and everything stays tight on it, I wouldn't worry about it. You could practically do OK just getting the metal parts off of it for a future plane at that price.

It'll be hard to find a "perfect" iron for it, but it won't be hard to find irons that will work with that.

by perfect, I mean one that fits the bed and the wedge perfectly, as an iron that would've come with it would do.

I've never gotten a plane with them matched, at least not a wooden plane, so I wouldn't sweat it - it's good experience to get it and use it. When you have gobs of money sometime, you can either make a plane to fit a set of matched irons or buy a plane with its original set of irons.

[David Weaver]

You get them at various places, by the way. They are, of course, on ebay but probably at a premium price if they're matched. I'd just use the plane as-is if I were in your position and keep my eyes open for a set of 6 or 7 of them going somewhere for $50 or less. You may see them for a lot more than that fairly often, but you won't be able to tell if they are a decent match for your plane without putting them in your plane, so there's no reason to pay a lot and chance having something you'll be forced to resell and take a big loss.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

At 15 bucks, I'd jump on it.

If you're really looking for one particular size of iron, and it's smaller than what it's got, I'd just grind the iron down.

[Joe Fabbri]

211275


Here's one picture of the plane. I have no way of knowing exactly how snug everything fits and how smoothly it works, but it looks pretty decent. A bit of checking, but not too bad. This one has some nice brass features, which is attractive.

I have another photo of the underside, but I can't seem to upload it. It looks pretty good from that perspective also, though.

David, it's good to know that I could still get some irons to match it pretty well. Would they have to be from the same manufacturer to match it well enough, or could they actually be from different makers and still possibly work?

I'm not sure if I'd want to grind it down, though it is an option.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Heck, give me the seller's contact info - I'll buy it!

[Joe Fabbri]

Sorry, Maurice, the deal's already pending. My reason for the posting was basically to find out about the irons.

[Zach Dillinger]

Thats a beaut for sure. You'll be able to find irons for it, but it might take some effort. Is that English?

[Jim Koepke]

I have a plane that looks just like that one.

I have bought a couple of spare blades for it.

The blades are pretty much interchangeable. There is a groove on the underside of the blade to register it to the brass runner.

One has to pay attention when using one of these because the settings can creep in use. My Record 778 does the same thing, the fence screws or depth stop screw come loose with vibration and if you are not paying attention, the groove you cut isn't the groove you wanted.

jtk

[Joe Fabbri]

Hey Jim,

So it seems it's not as big a deal as I heard it is, which is good to know.

I'm curious, because I can't make out the name in the picture, what make is yours, Jim? Did you find blades by the same make, or just any old blades?

[Joe Fabbri]

Hey Zach,

I'm not sure where it was made, as I haven't seen it in person yet. I'm anxious to find out more about it too, though.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm curious, because I can't make out the name in the picture, what make is yours, Jim? Did you find blades by the same make, or just any old blades?

The only mark I see on mine is INVICTA LCC.

Not sure if that is the maker or what. I think these were made by a wide variety of makers.

My blades are not matched. One blade came with the plane and two were bought on ebay.

I do not even know what caused me to buy the plane. It was in a import outlet kind of store back in the 1970s in a basket of similar planes marked $10. I picked the most complete one and bought it. Kind of strange since I was not into wood working at the time. I have used it a few times, but now use a Stanley 45 for all of the things it can do.

Okay, just took a quick run out to the shop to take a picture:

211327

As you can see, the blades are tapered. As long as the tapers are somewhat close, then the wedge should work with them.

jtk

[Joe Fabbri]

Yeah, that's pretty similar looking, but then again, I guess they all have about the same features.

Jim, do you find it not a great plane to use? Or do you just tend to use the Stanley more often?

Joe

[Dave Ring]

Jim, "Invicta", usually accompanied by a picture of a prancing horse, was a trademark used by Charles Nurse & Co. of Maidstone Kent in England. They became a Limited Liability Company (LLC) around 1930 and were bought out in 1937 by A.B. Salmens Successors who continued to make planes using the Invicta trademark. Plane production ended in 1967. (Information is from W.L. Goodman's "English Planemakers from1700".)

[Zach Dillinger]

Hey Zach,

I'm not sure where it was made, as I haven't seen it in person yet. I'm anxious to find out more about it too, though.

I'd bet it is an English plane, looking at how its made. Nice score for $15!

[Mark Wyatt]

I've recently taken a hankering to plow planes for some reason. There are two dimensions with the irons that I've found to be important. The first is the width of the iron at the top, non-cutting end. On occasion, I have found some irons will not fit some plane because the iron is wider than the throat. Secondly, some of the old irons are very thick and becaause of this they will not fit the throat of the plane front to back. That said, this is the exception not the rule. Most irons seem to fit in most planes.

[Jim Koepke]

Dave, thanks for the information, I have always wondered about this plane.

Jim I have used it with some success. Until yesterday I hadn't looked at it for quite a few years. I realized yesterday that there are a few things that could be done to make it a better plane. I noticed that the skate was not on a line from front to back.

It does Okay, but once I got a #45 I didn't see much point in using one that is a bit more work to set up. Though like many planes once it is set up, it only needs changing when the blade needs honing.

jtk

[Harlan Barnhart]

T I have used it a few times, but now use a Stanley 45 for all of the things it can do.

jtk

That's interesting Jim. I was considering selling my 45 and buying a wooden plow. I guess the grass is always greener... Do you find the 45 easier to use?

[Jim Koepke]

That's interesting Jim. I was considering selling my 45 and buying a wooden plow. I guess the grass is always greener... Do you find the 45 easier to use?

Yes, the 45 is a bit easier since it has an adjuster on the type 5 and later models.

Why are you considering selling the 45?

I also have a few of the 45s so I can set up different blades in different planes to make different steps of a job go quicker. One example is one of my upcoming projects will have dados, rabbets and tongue & grooves to cut. Most likely I will set this up with 4 planes. Once set, they will be left that way until the job is done.

The wooden plane needs a bit of fine tuning. Once that is done, it might get set up for a single purpose of cutting drawer grooves or something. This may not happen, one never knows. An epiphany just hit. I could use some brass or steel to make a different skate for the wooden plane and have a very short skate for bull nose plowing. Hmmmmmmm...

The wooden plane also has a limit of 1/2". This is something the 45 doesn't have holding it back.

jtk

[Joe Fabbri]

In the future, if you do decide to sell the 45, Harlan, send me a PM. I live on Long Island, and I might be interested in it.

Joe

[Joshua Clark]

Mark's advice on iron sizing is dead-on. The two most important measurements are the shank width, to make sure it fits through the mortise, and the thickness, to make sure it passes through the mouth past the front skate. The most commonly used irons are the smallest Nos. 1-4. The larger Nos. 5-8 are hardly ever used, at least in my shop. It isn't too often you want to plow a 5/8 groove. Singleton plow blades are very common- I have many dozens. Send me a PM with the measurements of the iron in your plane and I'll see what I can dig up.

A wedge-arm plow like that is almost surely British. Assuming there is no damage or warp (check that the front and rear skate are aligned properly) it should be a fine user.

Jim- the Invicta name (along with a horse or unicorn) was a mark that C. Nurse used. They were a fairly prolific planemaking concern and made high quality planes in my experience.

-Josh