Will a helical or spiral planer head eliminate the need for a drum sander or wide blt

[Nick Sorenson]

I have a regular bladed planer with the Dispoz a blade system. It works fine but I have to do quite a bit of sanding afterward to get the surface perfect (ready for a finish that can be leveled to dead level). I'd like to save some time from the current method.

I'm thinking I need to buy a drum sander.

But... should I consider a helical planer head for my 15" Grizzly planer? I wouldn't think it'd give quite the results of a drum sander but I don't have experience with either so I figured I'd ask.

[Robert Chapman]

I have a helical head in my planer but I still use my drum sander to remove the very slight scalloped marks left by the helical head. I use 220 grit paper on my drum sander and one pass cleans up the planer marks. I usually follow the drum sander with one pass of the random orbit sander with 220 grit - then I stain and finish. The other advantage of the helical head is that it does not tear out figured wood and I use a lot of birdseye and curly maple. Sanding is my least favorite woodworking task and the helical head and drum sander eliminate a lot of random orbit sanding.

[Cary Falk]

If your dispoz a blade will leave a slightly better surface than a spiral head. Neither is finish ready. That being said, I have a 18/36 (non osscilating drum sander and don't consider that a finish ready surface either because it leaves marks on the surface. I believe that everything needs either a scraper or ROS to be finish ready.

[glenn bradley]

As stated a wide sander does not leave a finish-ready surface IMHO. Your floor planer's rollers will leave pressure marks that generally need the touch of a scraper or a bit of hand sanding to avoid finish irregularities unless you are literally 'painting' the surfaces with colorants and heavy film finishes. If your desire is to remove as much hand sanding as possible an oscillating wide belt sander could possibly be the answer. I am interested in what other's experience has been on this quest.

[alex grams]

I am the same way. I have the Grizzly 12" Combination G0643Z, and it leaves slight scallop marks. I just hit it with my ROS with a 150/220 grit and it cleans up quickly.

[Aleks Hunter]

In a word, no.

[Carl Beckett]

I have a 15" planer. I also have a dual drum 24" sander. First drum is usually kept at 80 grit and the second drum with 150 grit paper.

for the most part, I run almost everything through the drum sander before building with it. Its NOT a ready to finish surface (and neither is my planer). A fair number of pieces I run the assembly through the sander (face frame glueups, rail/stile door assemblies, etc. It takes out any mismatch in the construction and makes the entire assembly a uniform thickness.

Prep for finish is still done with a ROS or finish sander.

So my experience is as Aleks says: No

ymmv

[Nick Sorenson]

I currently orbital sand too and have tried using handplanes. I have a nice shaving with the planes but I don't find them to leave a finish surface either (too scalloped with ridges to be dead flat and ready for finish sanding with a power sander or block). So I'm looking for something that will let me sand less. The planes didn't do it. I'd think even a scraper won't be as flat as a block and sand paper. I haven't seen a surface fresh out of a drum sander. But it sounds like it's not the end all either.

I was hoping that the helical head would help since I don't really have the space for a drum sander. I wonder which surface would be closer to final surface between the two (helical vs traditional 3 blade head).

[Philip Rodriquez]

Nick,
I have SC's on my jointer and my planer... I also have a performax 16/32. IMHO, I would go with SC's on your jointer and planer... then add a thickness sander. However, none of them will leave a surface that is ready to go... but the SC's will save you a LOT of tear-out. Oh, and OSS are great, but they are really SLOW!

[alex grams]

Nick, in regards to:


I wonder which surface would be closer to final surface between the two (helical vs traditional 3 blade head).

The traditional 3 blade as a fresh/new set of blades will be a better cut than a spiral, but over time the spiral holds up better against chipping/knicks whereas the traditional blades will knick/dull and tearout more.

This is of course my experience. Others may have a different experience.

[Larry Edgerton]

A wide belt was the next thing on my list until I bought a SCM with a Tersa head. The cut is so good that it cut sanding over my old Powermatic beast by about 70%. Head turns at 4700rpm, four knives, and the last pass I run at 16' min. Its about a 100 cuts per inch, and the head is about 5" in diameter.

I still want a wide belt, but the prices keep going up as my income goes down.

larry

[Peter Quinn]

Should you consider a helical head for your planer? Yes, for a variety of reason, but getting a finish ready surface isn't one of them. It reduces tear out considerably IME, knife changes are, well, simple. But you already have that covered with the quick change system. If you work in hard or exotic species that eat HSS, the spiral carbide has greater longevity by a factor of 10X to 20X over your next best option, which may be cobalt inserts? Not sure there. Spirals are much quieter, which reduces noise pollution, and the DC seems to like the little chips better than the the shavings from straight blades. In the long long run it may actually be cheaper to use spiral carbide than HSS per lineal foot for some users. It sure is for me.

As for the drum sander, it leaves straight line scratches that are no joy to remove. At least my non-oscillating version does. And it removes only about .012" per pass at best with 100G, so if you have deep defects added by the planer, it might be a good idea to start there, or you will be drum sanding for a very long time. I use my drum sander for precision thicknessing, for thicknessing very thin stock or veneer, and because it is open ended and can do around 40", for panels too wide for my 15" planer. All great reasons to get a drum sander. But for final surface prep, its no magic bullet. And neither is a wide belt.

To me a wide belt is better than a drum in terms of not scratching in a straight line, but its hardly a finish ready surface either. Wide belts excel at leveling imperfect glue ups (and most glue ups are imperfect), they are great for doors, counter tops, large panels. Some people may even apply finish right off the wide belt sander, but I prefer to go a bit further still, though you certainly get there quicker.

[James Baker SD]

I go from the Byrd headed planer to an infill smoothing plane. But then I am a hobbyist and speed is not an issue for me.

James

[Jim Foster]

I have he Powermatic 15" w/a Byrd/Shelix head and I still use my drum sander before my ROS. Small scallops after planing. Great planer (head), very little if any tearout.

[Rick Fisher]

Nope.. you still gotta sand..

I actually agree with Larry .. My Jointer has a Tersa head and in softer, simpler woods, it leaves a better finish than the Helical head in my Planer.

I have a small SCM wide belt and everything goes from the planer to the sander. The helical head leaves very faint marks in the wood which need to be sanded out... Today, I ordered some Medium Birdseye Eastern Maple.. That is where a helical head really shines.. The Tersa knives in the Jointer will be touch and go for Birdseye maple.. the Helical head planer will leave little marks it leaves in every other board, but no tear out ..

Today, I needed to get 2 x 3/8" Thick panels out of a 1" Thick Red Oak board.. The board was flat enough and straight enough, so I simply passed it through the Wide belt 3 times per face, then resawed it on the bandsaw, and passed the Bandsawed faces through the wide belt 3 times..

The results where 2 boards 9.2 mm thick.. close enough.. Had I jointed or planed, I would not have made it . .

I run a 150 on my Wide Belt.. I still have to hit it with 220 with a Random Orbit.. but the board is completely flat and the amount of sanding is so minor that is more of a hassle to get the ROS out than to actually sand ..