Looking at Bandsaws: Rikon 10-345, Rikon 10-325, Grizzly GO513X2F

[Doug Herzberg]

I just posted a similar question about lathes. Got the new Woodcraft flier and saw the two Rikons on sale for $1049 and $749. The Grizzly would cost about the same after delivery and tax calculations as the 10-345 Rikon. I've read other threads on this forum and elsewhere about problems with the 10-345, so in a straight up comparison I'd probably go with the Grizzly. What I'm wondering is if I should cheap out and get the Rikon 10-325. It seems to have only happy users.

My main interest is in resawing. I have two smaller bandsaws that meet most of my other needs. 14" Rikon users don't seem to complain about it for resawing work, so I'm wondering if I need the bigger machine? The Grizzly will take a 1" band, compared to 3/4" for the Rikon, and the Grizzly has a bigger motor.

Any advice will be appreciated.

[David Kumm]

Resawing is all about the strength of the box beam frame and the structure that holds the wheel to the upper assembly. The blade width usually refers to the width of the tire and isn't necessarily what the saw can really handle. It takes a strong saw to handle a 3/4 carbide blade let alone a 1". Find out how the saws are made and go with the strongest frame. If you do a little resawing you will be fine. Lots of resawing and those saws are marginal. Dave

[John Coloccia]

I hate to say bad things about companies, especially Rikon because they generally have halfway decent tool, but I haven't been particularly impressed with the larger Rikon bandsaws. The blade guides leave a lot to be desired in terms of adjustment. The Grizzly are miles ahead. I think the smaller saw's guides are a little better but I forget off the top of my head. I'm also not a huge fan of removing the fence ever time you want to change a blade. Yes, it's relatively convenient to remove but you're still removing a fence.

[Thom Porterfield]

I have the 10-325 and enjoy it quite a lot. I haven't tried resawing anything thicker than 10" (yet) but I get perfectly parallel cuts (top to bottom, no wander) when making less-than-1/8"-thick boards. With the 5/8" blade supplied with the saw, I have resawn Douglas Fir, fiddle-back maple, cherry, and black walnut, and have no complaints. The maple began as a 1x10 and is now bookmatched panels on a jewelry cabinet. The saw is better than are my skills. I did buy a 3/4" Timberwolf but it was poorly welded (went whump-whump-whump) so I got another. It was better made but doesn't do any better job of re-sawing than the 5/8" no-name that came with the Rikon. I suppose I might rewire the motor to 220v. (that's an option) if I was convinced it would produce any more power, but I have yet to stall the saw (or pop a breaker).

A friend is building a house--he has a bazillion feet of red fir that he'd love to use as his living room ceiling. But the stuff is 2x6. When he gets the roof on, we're taking my Rikon down there and resawing all that fir to 1x3. I'm looking forward to that, but I think we'll get bored with the work before the saw knows what happened.

The fence is a bit funky, a bit tedious to get aligned, but it works. It comes with a metal dowel attachment for free-hand resawing. The guide bearings are kind of tedious when changing blade widths, so I try to group my ripping-resawing chores and my curve-cutting chores. (In an ideal world, I'd have two band saws. I grew up using the monster 30" shop-built band saw in my dad's shop, and it still bugs me that I can't cut that big Fleur-de-lis medallion without flipping it over to get the other side.) The task light is on the wrong damn side of everything. But then, that seems to be the default for most band saws these days.

Would I buy it again? Probably. Especially if I had an $800 maximum budget. Would I buy the 10-345? Give me enough money and another 4 sq. ft. in my shop and I would.

[Thom Porterfield]

I hate to say bad things about companies, especially Rikon because they generally have halfway decent tool, but I haven't been particularly impressed with the larger Rikon bandsaws. The blade guides leave a lot to be desired in terms of adjustment. The Grizzly are miles ahead. I think the smaller saw's guides are a little better but I forget off the top of my head. I'm also not a huge fan of removing the fence ever time you want to change a blade. Yes, it's relatively convenient to remove but you're still removing a fence.I never remove my fence to change blades. Nor do I have to remove the fence rail(s). There is a tie-bar (on the Rikon 10-325) that crosses below the slot in the table. That's a pain, because Rikon designed it to swing the wrong way. I modified it to swing out so now I need only loosen the screws to get it out of the way to change a blade.

[Doug Herzberg]

Thanks for the advice. I'll see what I can find out. I plan to look at the Rikons, but Grizzly is too far to inspect in person. I have a hobby workshop, so I don't think I'll be doing a lot of resawing. I did just pick up about 3 tons of black walnut, but most of it was milled to 4/4 already.

[Doug Herzberg]

Thanks for your thoughts, Thom. You sound like a lot of the happy 10-325 owners who have posted on other threads. If you do go looking for a 10-345, do some reading - a few people have been very unhappy and very vocal.

I know what you mean about extra bandsaws. I have an old Atlas 12" that I keep loaded with a thin blade for scroll work. Don't do that much of it, but it's nice to not have to mess with changing the blade for a quick job. I keep a 1/2" 4 tpi blade in the Craftsman 12" for slicing up logs for the lathe and some small resaw tasks. I'm really looking forward to getting a decent saw and the 14" Rikon sounds pretty good. More money left over for a decent lathe.

Interesting about the Timberwolf. I've never had one. I usually get Olsons because they're available locally and not too expensive. Can't really complain, but that may be because I don't know better.

[Doug Herzberg]

Thanks, John. I read posts from a lot of Grizzly owners who really like the model I'm looking at. There were complaints about the guides, and a couple about poor castings of the wheels, but otherwise people were pretty impressed. The foot brake sounds useful, too.

I've purchased some cheap tools with the Rikon nameplate, but overall I haven't heard too much bad about them, other than the 18" band saw.

[ed vitanovec]

I'm 5 years happy with my Rikon 10-345 18" Bandsaw, I bought it on sale and feel I got a really nice 18" Bandsaw. I know Rikon seems to be taking a hit in the forums complaint department this past year, not sure why but I would recommend their 14" or 18" Bandsaw. I think all the manufactures have had some kind of complaints on the forums lately, whether its Tools, Car parts, Toys, Clothing or Dog food in my opinion its that "C" country that mixes bad products in the shipments with the good. We will always get stuck with a few bad Apples making the person holding the basket look bad. Anyway Rikon has always supported me 100%, I had an issued with the upper wheel and they promptly sent a new one. Before my 2 year warranty expired I noticed the motor had a slight hesitation on startup and spoke to Rikon about it, they sent a new motor to me. I know the fence is not all that great but it works, all the competing brands stock fences are not that great either. I know its a tough decision on which brand of tool to buy especially if you can see them in person, its not easy to return this large of a machine if you are happy. Good luck and I look forward to reading about your Bandsaww gloat.

Regards!
Ed

[Tom Giacomo]

I also have had the Rikon 18" for about 7 years now and never a problem, I really like it.

[Cary Falk]

You can put me in the G0513X2 camp and liking it. Mine was delivered flawless. I have not pushed it to it's limits yet but everything I have done it has done an excellent job. It is light years ahead of my 14" delta.

[jonathan eagle]

There was a review of both saws in Fine woodworking not long ago, I believe.
I don't have either, but have seen the Rikon. It looked just OK to me. Biggest thing is the 2.5HP, doesn't seem like enough for me.
I even think 3hp is on the low side for a bandsaw.
Jonathan

[John Coloccia]

I never remove my fence to change blades. Nor do I have to remove the fence rail(s). There is a tie-bar (on the Rikon 10-325) that crosses below the slot in the table. That's a pain, because Rikon designed it to swing the wrong way. I modified it to swing out so now I need only loosen the screws to get it out of the way to change a blade.

The big 345 is different. The guides on the 325 are better as well. The 325 is a nice machine.

[Paul Johnstone]

Well.. Grizzly is able to protect itself better on internet forums from vocal people posting complaints. Not saying they have a bad bandsaw, I don't know.
Saying you can't let 5 loud people that were dissatisfied with Rikon sway you that Griz is superior.

I have had the 18" Rikon for a long time. It's great. I remember seeing maybe 5 people complain over the years about Rikon, but they were all addressed.
The Rikon has cast iron wheels (don't know about the specific Griz you are looking at). It also has a larger work table than the comparable Griz.
Also, Griz will round up the numbers in their favor. Someone on another forum pointed out that the Rikon wheels are something like 18 3/8" and they call that
a 18" bandsaw. Griz has something like 18 1/2" wheels on the saw they call their 19" saw. Maybe those numbers aren't exact, but you get the point.
Does an extra 1/2" really matter? Probably not.

The point is that the Rikon 18" Bandsaw is a great deal on this woodcraft sale, and I would not hestitate to recommend it.
The guide bearings on the 18" Rikon are designed for large blades.. I had good luck with Carter stablizer on the Rikon when using 1/4" blades. Have not tried
any blades thinner than 1/4". Most of the time, I have a 1/2" or 3/4" blade on my Rikon..

[Doug Herzberg]

Sorry if I'm posting this twice. I clicked a wrong button. I went down to the local WC and saw both Rikons. The 18" looks like a lot more machine than the 14," well worth the extra $300, from the drive belt to the dust collection ports to all the hardware. I looked at the box beams and they seem okay, but they sound like a lighter gauge than I would like. I tend to overbuild everything, though. Cheesy looking fences, but I can deal with that. Nice big tables. Forgot to look at the trunnions. Duh. I'll go back at least once. No work light on the 18." Odd.

I'm well aware of the effect of the loud rants which are broadcast around the world on the internet. I saw some about both manufacturers, but even the worst complainers spoke well of the customer service at both companies. It sounds like they both went out of their way to make people happy.

I think my decision is getting harder. I'm no longer ruling out the 18" Rikon. I really wish I could see the Grizzly.

Thanks for all the comments so far.

[Ryan Mooney]

I recently got the 513X2F and overall am relatively happy with it.

Likes:

bulk/build. It seems pretty well built for its size/price. I would likely have been slightly happier long term if I had gone with my gut and sprung for the B20 (but the extra $$$'s were hard to justify at this point).
grizzly support. so far so good. I actually got a 636X table with the saw by accident and they happily switched it out (the fence holes didn't match). If I had been smart I'd have kept my mouth shut and just drilled/tapped the holes for the fence. The 636 table as almost 1.5X as thick and had quite a bit beefier webbing (and interesting actually aligned a smidge better on the trunions). I felt obligated to finish the swap once I opened my yap though.
capabilities. Its definitely a serious bandsaw I've run a 3/4" timberwolf in it as well as a 1/4 and a 3/16 blade from highland. The 3/4" timberwolf is imho definitely at the upper end of its capabilities, and it seems a bit happier with a 1/2" blade (for me anyway). It ran the scrollier blades pretty well with the stock guides.
foot brake. This is very useful if you get something hung up you can stop quickly. Yeah yeah never get anything hung up... but if you do... I also like not having the blade spinning when I'm not paying attention. This was probably the #1 selling point for me over the Rikon.
Cast Iron - yep there's a lot of it. The Rikon looks like about a wash either way here.
Cons:

Smidge of runout in the blade. Not enough to make me really grumpy but enough to notice. I haven't looked to close to see if I can figure out what's causing it yet.
I've actually overheated the motor and had it thermal shutdown. I had a fair bit of green wood I was resawing and after about 3 hours straight it popped off. I may have been feeding a little fast but not (imho) excessively so. I'll be less aggressive in the future I suppose.
I'm not married to the guides. They are ok, but.. they are a little annoying to adjust (would prefer tool less) and they sag when not tight, moving when you tighten them which makes adjusting.. even more annoying.
guide height adjustment. Its pretty stiff. I wouldn't really consider it a big deal, but the Rikon looks a lot easier to move (others have commented on how easy the Rikon is for this compared to some other higher end saws so I think its less a con for griz and a pro for Rikon). The build is very solid though so add a grain of salt on ease vs performance... I see the ease but haven't evaluated the comparable build of this part that closely.

[Doug Herzberg]

Thanks Ryan for the details. I left WC with a good feeling about the Rikon 18." Extra 1/2 HP, slightly larger table, double the warranty (I think). The guide height adjustment is pretty smooth. I resaw green wood from time to time, so your experience caused a little concern. No use mounting a 1" blade if it doesn't like the 3/4."

I like the brake, too. I'm getting older and they say we geezers tend to cut our fingers off or worse by not paying attention. (Next page in the Rikon catalog is their meat saw - looks just the same). Last thing I need is a sharp blade winding down for 30-40 seconds.

Got home from WC and looked at page 6 of the WC flier. A Laguna LT14 SUV for $1595, with a free mobile base and a 3 HP single phase Leeson. The table is a little smaller, and it's only a 14" throat, but it has a 14" resaw capacity. This saw is probably out of my price range, and the Mrs. is already making noises about a "woman cave." They don't even include a cheap blade, let alone a nice one. I didn't see it on the floor at WC, but I've seen the brand before.

I think I need to think about this a little, wait to see what other comments come in, and go to the woodworking show next month in Denver. The Rikon will be on sale for awhile, and probably again, if I miss it this time around.

[Doug Colombo]

I also have the Rikon 10-325 and as most people, have no complaints. I have had the saw about a year and have done only a bit of resawing, but once I got the set up correct, it did the job with no issues. I looked at Grizzy but liked the fact that I could not only see the Rikon at the local WC, but also was purchasing it locally making it easier if there is an issue with the saw.

[Curt Harms]

Rikon is coming out with another competitor in this arena. It look like they're targeting the Laguna LT14SUV, similar specs & price. Here's a blurb from FWW
http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/39476/awfs-tool-update-rikon-pours-its-best-bandsaw-features-into-a-super-saw.
And Woodcraft's take: http://blog.woodcraft.com/tag/10-350-rikon-bandsaw/
Still seems like a pretty fair chunk of change for a 14" saw, even though it'll resaw 14" and has a 2.5 or 3 h.p. motor. A 3 h.p. Baldor costs $300 more than a 2.5 h.p Asian motor? I'd expect the Baldor to be more but that much?

[Doug Herzberg]

Thanks for the info, Curt. I'll see if they have one at the WW show. I see it also has a foot brake.

[Doug Herzberg]

I want to apologize to any amputees or geezers I may have offended with my meat saw comment. It's been on my mind since I read a thread on the pending Saw Stop regulations, probably on SMC. I am getting to that age and I do worry about it. I've had a few near misses, but, thank God, I have only sustained flesh wounds in the distant past and nothing recently.

I don't want to go off topic or anything, but I realized my remarks may have inadvertently been hurtful and negative, and I am truly sorry.

[Wade Clark]

Hi Folks, I'm new, just found this site this morning.
I wanted to thank all of you for this discussion on Bandsaws. I've been beating my head against the wall for 2 weeks now, going around and around on which saw I was going to buy.
I just placed an order for a Grizzly GO513X2BF.
I was trying to post on here all day and it took some time to gain access. I had a question which doesn't really matter now, but I'll ask it anyway.
Brakes: How important is a foot brake, and also is there a good reason to have a motor brake too, or is it just overkill? The model I ordered has both. Not sure if I wasted the extra money or not. I was fortunate enough to also find a discount code in another thread on here. That made it easier to swallow the extra cost. What do you think about the motor brake and the foot brake? Is it a significant improvement or just another thing to pay for?
Thanks again for helping me get off the fence and buy a good saw... was tempted to go a lot smaller, but this thread convinced me otherwise.

[Doug Herzberg]

Wade,

I'm a little too new to say welcome, but welcome.

I haven't ordered yet. Where did you find that discount code?

Doug

[Cary Falk]

Wade,

I'm a little too new to say welcome, but welcome.

I haven't ordered yet. Where did you find that discount code?

Doug

It's WWJ5. Good through Nov 31 I believe.

[Mike Konobeck]

The Grizzly looks like a nice saw. I have been using my bandsaw more and more and have a Steel City. Does an ok job but I have been eying up a new bandsaw. Right now the Hammer N4400 is on sale. Dimensionally the Grizzly (GO513X2BF) and the Hammer look similar. The motor is a 4hp in the Hammer and I am guessing the machine is a bit more refined but of course with a premium.

[Wade Clark]

Yes, that's the code. It worked today just fine.
I almost bought a Laguna but their customer service is reported to be low... they have a few on ebay and their feedback there is 87.7% if I recall correctly. Looked at one of them at Woodcraft, and also at the Ricon saws. I already have a Grizzly table saw and am very happy with it so that made the bandsaw easier to go for too.
Any opinions on the motor brake and the foot brake? My Wife encouraged me to go for both if it made it any more safe. She's good to me!:)

[Doug Herzberg]

Thanks. Did you ever consider the Rikon? I'm still thinking about it and I'm curious what swayed you.

[Doug Herzberg]

First, thanks to all of you who shared your opinions. I'm pretty sure I would have done well whichever way I went. I saw the 14" Rikon (only) again at the Denver Woodworking show (the show was kind of a bust - way smaller this year). The WC guy at the show spent a lot of time with me and I almost bought the 14" right there, but I remembered seeing them side by side in the store and thinking to myself that there is a reason the 18" is $300 more.

I did a list of the features of the three saws and then circled the winner in each category. The Rikon 14" won on price and resaw capacity. The Rikon 18" won on throat, maximum blade size, horsepower, warranty and maximum left tilt of the table (I have a project in mind). The Grizzly won on overall table size and thickness, foot brake, fence, and miter guage (it comes with one). Plus the Rikons were local and the sales tax was included in the price comparisons, so I won't have to look over my shoulder for the tax collector.

There have been some negative reviews about the saw I chose, but no one, including the complainers, had anything bad to say about the way either of these companies stand behind their products.

I ended up getting the floor model at the WC store and a couple of the guys there loaded it up for me. At least one of them is a fellow "creeker" (shout out to George). I have a bad back, so my wife unloaded it for me. (Just kidding, I helped a little.)

I also got a Timberwolf 1" x 2 tpi resaw blade, but I haven't installed it yet. The blade that came with isn't great, but it's worked for me so far.

Hope this is of some help to someone. Thanks again to all of you who helped.


214648

[Paul McGaha]

Congratulations on the new bandsaw Doug and thank you for letting us tag along and watch your thought process.

PHM

[Mike Cutler]

Doug

You're going to like that saw. I have the older 10-340, and I've milled Black Cherry and hickory logs on it. Resawing tropical hardwoods, Cocobolo, Jatoba, Wenge, African Blackwood, Macassar ebony, Bubinga, etc,using a 1" ,Lennox 2/3 varipitch, trimaster, you need a vernier to measure the deviations in width of resaw.
The weakest point of the saw is the fence. It's a pretty robust fence, but it's not quite tall enough, or stiff enough for tall resawing.

Here is a review of the 10-340 I did. It's a little different than yours, but the basic saw is the same.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?17055-Rikon-18-quot-Review&highlight=
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?32750-Loggin-in-Griswold.-It-s-a-long-way-from-Tokyo.&highlight=

[Doug Herzberg]

Here is a review of the 10-340 I did. It's a little different than yours, but the basic saw is the same.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?17055-Rikon-18-quot-Review&highlight=
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?32750-Loggin-in-Griswold.-It-s-a-long-way-from-Tokyo.&highlight=

Wish I'd seen that before I made my decision - would have helped reinforce my choice. It's reassuring after the fact, too.

[Mike Cutler]

Doug

I believe that I was using a 3TPI, 1" Lennox Bi-Metal when I was playing around with those logs. The Tri-Master leaves a much better finish.

[Scott T Smith]

I have owned a Grizzly G0513XB2 for about two years, and have been very pleased with it. I don't really resaw with it, as I have a dedicated 16" horizontal machine for that. The one time that I did some resawing was a 6" board and it did fine.

The motor brake beats the heck out of a foot brake; the stop is instant! All in all I have been very pleased with it.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I am a Rikon 10-325 owner and I have found it to be a wonderful tool. Rikon customer service/tech support has been really great to me...if you need to call them, chances are that you'll reach Rod directly (VP of tech support!). I also own a Griz jointer, which has given me plenty of grief (almost as much grief as their tech support, which is an enormous machine of bureaucracy...good luck actually reaching the same tech twice in two calls). The reality is that a lemon can arrive with any nameplate, but I have learned well the value of a local dealer and a smart, helpful tech support group. If nothing else, I have been able to walk into a woodcraft and ask a question or buy a small part while standing in front of their showroom model.

[Van Huskey]

Yes, that's the code. It worked today just fine.
I almost bought a Laguna but their customer service is reported to be low... they have a few on ebay and their feedback there is 87.7% if I recall correctly. Looked at one of them at Woodcraft, and also at the Ricon saws. I already have a Grizzly table saw and am very happy with it so that made the bandsaw easier to go for too.
Any opinions on the motor brake and the foot brake? My Wife encouraged me to go for both if it made it any more safe. She's good to me!:)


I prefer the foot brake as you can use it without taking your hands off the work piece and from the side and back of the saw, even just to use it as an "off switch". I have used a saw with both (the motor brake was via VFD and a 3 phase motor) and basically found them redundant. In the end the margin of safety is increased by the motor brake BUT I think it is a very marginal increase. I didn't bother to check the price but Grizzly usually charges about $100 for the motor brake for me I wouldn't bother but I won't own a BS with larger than 14" wheels without a foot brake.