looking to buy laser system

[Ernie Balch]

I have industrial experience with UV systems excimer, YAG, and Argon Ion lasers but have never used a CO2 laser.

I have $10k to spend and would like advise. The laser will be used with my CNC router and Edge printer in our sign business.
I also plan to cut and mark leather sheaths, wood knife handles, and mark knife blades. Other tasks will be more sign related, cutting plexiglass and plastic sign materials. Will also make ADA signs with braille.

Basic questions:
US or import?
New or used?
Power?

Anyone ever use a fiber laser?

ernie

[Rodne Gold]

I think you should start by reading all the threads here , there is a huge amount of information on these boards re the questions you are asking.
However , with your budget you will struggle to buy a domestic laser capable of all you want , you need something like a 1200 x 900 or bigger 80-150w machine , this is what I would suggest for a signage shop that also wants to do general engraving , wood , leather cutting etc. A good chinese machine will cost you between $5 and 10k. 3-5x that for domestic. I wouldn't buy anything used , especially older stuff , replacement costs of a RF (not glass) tube will be huge in the 80-150w region and anything over 3-5 yrs old must be viewed with a tube replacement as a potential expense.

[Mike Daniels]

Ernie, Check Rabbit Laser USA, I got 60Wand I do Knifes,and Leather etc.Support has been great,I've had mine for 2 1/2 years and little problems. Mike

[matthew knott]

Fiber is not what you need, the wavelength is wrong, wont touch wood, leather, glasss and not to clever on leather. For what its worth i would opt for exactly what Rodne has recomend if it where me. We purchased a used epilog and the tube needs work, and it aint cheap :(. Wish i had gone with a cheaper machine now !!

[Joe Hillmann]

If you are looking a a used laser I would suggest you find a local dealer who deals in that brand of laser and see if he would be willing to look at it for you to see if it has any problems (I would suggest offering him a few hundred dollars to do this for you). The biggest concern with buying a used laser is the tubes. They are only expected to last 3 - 7 years then they need to be recharged or replaced (most Chinese brands can NOT be recharged)

To give you and idea of cost to replace the tubes on a 50 watt universal laser is about $14,000. To have the same tubes recharged is only about $1,200.

The fiber lasers a very neat and so far problem free machines but they are for marking metal, they won't do any of the things you want it to do.

If you plan to mark knife blades with a CO2 you will need to use cermark on the blades before you engrave them. (CO2 lasers can't mark on bare metal)

For cutting leather, plexi and sign material I would suggest at least a 50 watt machine, that is what I have and I wish I had a 75 watt.

[Rodne Gold]

Just as a matter of interest , why do you still use the edge? I went many years ago from thermal to inkjet print/cut as the cost to print was horrendous (Roland Pc600) and never looked back.

[Ernie Balch]

We do a lot of single color ready to apply vinyl graphics for a local company. The edge and cutter works perfectly for this application. The edge is also paid off ;) so we might as well use it.

ernie

[Bruce Boone]

Matthew is correct about the wavelength. I tried some wood in my 80 watt YAG just to see, and even at 100% power, it left the wood unharmed!

[Ernie Balch]

Thanks for the replies.

ernie

[Ernie Balch]

Rodne and Mike, I took your advice. I have spent countless hours reading this forum and have gotten most of my questions answered. I am looking at the Reci 80W tube and 1200x900 Rabbit. The unit looks to be great for cutting which will be most of my work. When I started looking I was convinced that the US companies were the only way to go. But I am realizing the larger Chinese units have a lot of advantages for someone that wants to tinker.

Looking at all the photos I realize just how simple and straightforward the design is. I designed and built my first CNC router in 1994 and this unit is very similar with a controller, stepper motors, ballscrews and linear slides. I have logged hundreds of hours aligning optics and UV lasers in the past 22 years so I don't expect any problems with that.

One thing I want to do is replace the off axis red spot with a USB video microscope. I want to align the scope to a corner and then set the origin and run the job. I see that feature on very expensive European lasers and it seems worth looking into.

I understand that larger tubes may not work as well for photo engraving. Can anyone tell me the differences in the 150W and 80W Reci photo engraving performance vs the 60W standard tube?

ernie

[Rodne Gold]

Hiya , not sure why you want a microscope for origin? Most of the machines have a set origin and have amazing options for the start of the job relative to the object? You can do that with my machines , use the scope aligned to the beam to position and then just press the button marked "origin" and it would set it there. I think its a bit overcomplicated myself :)
If you have that experience , the chinese lasers will be a doddle - very simple but effective systems.
The big issue is that the glass tubes do not fire under 15% power or sometimes more , so in effect the minimum power you can use is limited , on a 150w Reci , firstly the spot size is slightly bigger than lower powers and it wont fire at under 30w , the chinese machines are not that speedy so often you will not get the low power high speed settings you need for delicate photo engraving , ie you will overpower the material. Bigger spot sizes will niot allow you very high resolution as well.
The price is also substantially higher with a 150w tube , circa $1200 compared to $450 for an 80 Reci , or $140 for a 60w "normal" tube.
You can always start off with an 80w and its power supply and EASILY upgrade to a 100/130/150 at any time , all you need is the tube , the power supply and to mod the machine for extra length, which is a snap.
My 60w seems to have finer detail than my Reci 80w , so we use that machine mostly for detailed engraving and the 80w just cuts all day or does grosser engraving jobs.
I bought from Shenui and many others have as well , perhaps consider them for your machine. I like their software.

[Rich Harman]

The larger the diameter of the beam, the smaller spot size can be. This is one of the advantages of using a beam expander. So why is it then that the higher power lasers with their larger diameter beams are noted for producing larger spot sizes?

I have a 2x beam expander that I plan to install in my 900x1400 80 watt machine. Primarily so that the beam is more consistent across the table, but also for the smaller spot size. The trade off is a narrower depth of focus. The 15% minimum power will still be an issue. Maybe even more so since the power density will be higher.

[Rodne Gold]

I also have a few beam expanders , I asked shenui if I should use em , they said no , but I think otherwise - thing is , they quite expensive , at least mine are , $750 a pop , we would also have to shift the tube a bit back to do so - but I will try when one of the tubes go west .. I don't have time to futz with the lasers right now...

[Ernie Balch]

All of my industrial laser systems have had off axis microscopes. You can shoot a dot and align to it for exact laser position. Also all you do is focus on the substrate and you know the laser is in focus. Finally you can do an engrave test, move the microscope over the sample and evaluate the process settings.For lower engraving power at the substrate is it practical to insert a splitter? That way you could run the laser at a reliable power setting. I had a power control system on a tripple yag (355nm) that rotated polarization optics with a stepper to control the power in real time. ernie