Uncle! or A little help please with spindle tops!

[Tom Hamilton]

Greetings fellow turners: Here's the problem: I don't know how to turn a terribly thin, can't possibly be done, that is crazy, spindle to adorn a hollow form.

Inspired by certain Kenny Rogers look alikes, and other very talented turners, I'm pushing my envelop to get away from bowls and boxes and use the Jamison Hollowing System to actually make some hollow forms. The form is easy, relatively speaking, but the spindle topper is driving me crazy.

So: how is it done? Do you size the base of the spindle top to the vessel and then reverse the work and turn the spindle from right to left, (base of the spindle, properly sized, at the tailstock end; tiny, delicate point, eventually, at the headstock end?)

I've broken several so far in the turning process, so I know what I'm doing is not right! Are you turning the really fine stem coming out of the teardrop base or sanding it to that fine dimension.

Finally, are you gluing the spindle top into the vessel or using a tight friction fit? I do know that a lose friction fit will allow gravity to bring that beautiful, delicate, Ah I did it, spindle top crashing to the floor....in multiple pieces.

So, what say you?

Thanks,

Tom, in Douglasville, cheering for the Rangers and waiting patiently for instruction.

[Dennis Ford]

The way I do it;
Turn the HF with a recess in the opening to receive the finial.
Mount material for the finial in a chuck, no tailstock
The left end will be the base of the finial
Turn the top end of the final first, working back toward the chuck a little at a time.
I turn the base to match the angle at the top of HF and then turn a tenon to fit. This is by measurement, once I part it off there is no going back.
If the fit is tight enough, you may be able to dress up the junction with the finial friction fit into the HF (very risky with this technique).

[James Combs]

Tom I assume the spindle you are referring to is the one used as a decorative finial on lidded hollow forms such as this.

210950

I believe that most of the responses you get in answer to your post, assuming I understand your question correctly, is that most of the folks that turn finials start from the pointy end(top as shown) and work toward the base. The base will be chucked in the head stock. I also will say that probably (my guess) most of the guys will also finish as they go. So to answer in a few words turn from the small end to the large end with the large end chucked at the headstock and finish as you go.

The other question on whether it is turned or sanded to size, I think most will say turned and only finish sanded. I may be wrong but what I have describe is the way I do it and the way I was encouraged to by others on SMC.

[BILL DONAHUE]

Tom, I feel that what is needed is a very sharp and small tool, a high speed on the lathe and the use of two hands with one on the tool near the tool rest and the other behind the finial for support. The master of thin finials is Cindy Drozda and here's a link to a video of her's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUAcFc8zGfY

[Bernie Weishapl]

Tom I would suggest you get Cindy Drozda's DVD's "Elegant Finials" and Fabulous Finial Box. She covers finials in detail and both are excellent. One of the things I have found is when turning a finial you need a finger on the opposite side of the finial to offset the pressure from the gouge. Start turning at the tailstock end and when you have turned the top of the finial sand. I start with 400 grit and 600 grit. Then work back another inch or so then sand. Keep working your way to the headstock end of the finial.

[John Spitters]

The way that I've been doing it is to.
Mount your piece of wood for the spindle between centers, turn a tenon on one end to fit your chuck.
With it mounted in your chuck turn the bottom of the finial (the right side end) to match the fit in your vessel, you may also turn the shoulder profile to fit the curve of your vessel, at this time you can finish detail the bottom of the finial as well and apply a finish if you wish to do so (friction finish ?)
Now start with a slightly larger piece of stock in your chuck so that you can turn a Jamb chuck that you will mount the bottom end of your finial piece into. This needs to be a very secure jamb fit ( don't worry if you think the fit is too tight and that you will not be able to get the delicate finished finial out of it, there's a method for that)
Now that you have your piece firmly mounted in your jamb chuck bring up the tailstock for support (gentle support) you can start working on the tip of your finial, leave the tailstock engaged for as long as you are comfortable with it there but eventually you will want to part off the piece in contact with the tailstock.
You will now slowly work your way back to the base of your finial, doing a small section at a time and then finish sand that piece before doing another section you may even apply a friction polish as you work your way to the base.
Once you have finish turned your finial it's now time to get it out of the jamb chuck ... how do we do that? just turn it free.

John

[David E Keller]

I generally turn the lid and finial seperately then join the two after turning and finishing them. Besides being easier for me, it's also a heck of a lot cheaper than turning a tiny finial on top of a lid from a solid block of something expensive. I may not be good, but I am cheap!

As for the finial itself, I'm a small to large and right to left kind of guy. The finger trick is a good one. I generally sand in sections as I complete a given portion of the finial. I'm sure most of the folks here can turn and blend delicate curves with a skew, but I've been known to use a little sandpaper to get things blended from time to time.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tom......Bernie gave some pretty sage advice about Cindy Drozda's video "elegant finials" and a supporting finger to offset pressure of your detail gouge......

[Michelle Rich]

go to Youtube and find Cinda Drozda's video on her signature spindle gouge..she shows how to turn a finial with it..very detailed and will help you immensely

[Curt Fuller]

So: how is it done? Do you size the base of the spindle top to the vessel and then reverse the work and turn the spindle from right to left, (base of the spindle, properly sized, at the tailstock end; tiny, delicate point, eventually, at the headstock end?)

I've broken several so far in the turning process, so I know what I'm doing is not right! Are you turning the really fine stem coming out of the teardrop base or sanding it to that fine dimension.

Finally, are you gluing the spindle top into the vessel or using a tight friction fit? I do know that a lose friction fit will allow gravity to bring that beautiful, delicate, Ah I did it, spindle top crashing to the floor....in multiple pieces.


Tom, I don't turn a lot of finials but I turn a lot of icicles for ornaments, which are just basically upside down finials. The process you've stated above, sizing the tenon, reversing, and working from right to left, is the way to go. Because most of my ornaments have either a 1/2" or 5/8" hole I size them with like sized open end wrenches and I'm careful to not undersize them because a tight fit as you mention helps keep the finial straight with the body. There are lots of tricks to the turning but the three most important keys are small, very sharp tools, light cuts, and speed. I turn them at the fastest speed on my little delta midi, I use long spigot jaws to hold the tenon and I like a long ,3/4" or longer tenon to hold it tight and reduce any chance of it slipping or moving and I also think it helps reduce vibration. When I get done I slide the excess tenon out of the jaws and either part it off or saw it off. Never use a scraping cut once you've gotten anywhere near thin, the extra drag will almost always break it. Never go back to the right of any thin spot to try and fix something with a tool, that will almost always break it. Use sandpaper if you need to touch something up. (180 grit sandpaper is a very effective tool when turning small spindles) I use two tools almost exclusively, a 3/8" spindle gouge with a long grind and a homemade round skew ground from a piece of 1/4" drill rod also with a long grind. Straight grained, hard, dense woods work best, woods with figure or diagonal grain will work but require an extra light touch. A couple drops of thin CA goes a long way when stabilizing a delicate piece of wood. And lastly, plan on breaking a few, it just happens.