PM 160 ...........Thoughts?.......And a big thanks to the loml!!!!!!

[adam peek]

So a Pm 160 16 inch planer poped up for sale in my area for 1,200 with an extra set of blades and it has fairly new 5hp balder moder (single phase), which was a major selling point to me. Well I had just got the go ahead to buy a delta unifence I found 2 days ago that in its self was very nice of her. But this evening when I called the my loving wife and told her about the planer I ran across also, she did not give me any flak about buying it. I just wanted to take a minute to express the fact that I have a very expensive hobby as everyone on here already knows, and that I have a wife that backs me up when I really really want a new peice of machinery! I have to say I do Love the lady I married because she supports me in my life and in my woodworking which is icing on the cake.

So any thoughts on the PM 160 its totally new territory for me so any thoughts would be appreciated! Also how do you feel about the price, from what I have found this is a pretty decent price. the Unit is in very good working order, both sets of blades are sharp and nick free. and the moder looks shiny and new.:)

And btw I did not call this a gloat as I do not have any pictures.

On a gloat side not I need to post some picks because in the last 3 months I have really bought more than a few new toys!

Delta 12-14 table saw with 7.5hp motor repainted and ready to go I have less than 200.00 not including fence
Delta 8in jointer fair shape but not up and running yet so fare 100.00 into it
Grizzly 15 inch planer 650.00 looks great and got a 5ft roller out feed table and extra set of blades to sweeten the deal!
12" dewalt 3hp RAS 100.00 into it and all it needs is a touch of paint a new table and on off switch
Grizzly lathe I do not know the model number but they still sell it for 995.00 i got it with all the guys tools chucks and a dupicator for 450.00
Last but defently not least is a oliver number 1 or 2 not sure whcih, pattern makes vise for a 150.00 then a local shop cleaned and powder coated it for another 100.00 which I thought was great buy its self.

Ok so even though I don't have pics and now will probally have to put some on here I just had to take a secound and gloat after all!!!!!!!

So back on topic and thoughts on the PM 160?

[David Kumm]

PM were known for their planers back in the pre asian days. The 160 was before the 180 so probably dates from the 1940s to 1960s. They were above delta , crescent, below oliver, newman,buss and some Yates. If you go to vintagemachinery.com you can find lots of pictures. If you compare the internals to the new ones you will never buy the new ones. The 160 and 180 were considered their light duty planers at 1300 lbs. How times have changed. If the grinder is attached you have a real deal. If not but condition is good you are still fine. Remember what you can buy new for 1200- not a lot. It should be a straight knife head as you don't want the quiet head but I'm not sure that was available at that time. Must be a belt drive if the motor was changed. The OWWM.ORG guys can give you specifics including model differences and things to look out for. I know more about Oliver planers but there are tons of PM out there so knowledge is available. Condition is key. I am an obvious fan of old planers as the only real improvement over the years has been the byrd type head and that is available for the 160 but frankly those old planers had such good chipbreakers and pressure bars that a well sharpened knife gives a great finish. The old planers more than make up for that deficiency with robust materials. Dave

[adam peek]

I know it has the standerd head and not the quiet one, however it does not have the grinder. A big reason I wanted one of the older planners is because of the way they built them back then. When I first truly got into wood working I liked all of the new shiny stuff, but as time has went on I really find myself leaning towards OWWM's becasue they are built rock solid and even if you find one that was not taken the best care of a small amount of tlc and they are ready to go.

[Stephen Cherry]

As David mentioned, condition is the most important thing. I've seen these planers go for just a few hundred dollars at auction, but that is just giving it away. If it has the grinder, the price is maybe OK. If not, I would pass. There are plenty of machines out there that do.

For the same money you could get a 180. You've got the griz planer, so there is no need to jump right in.

[David Kumm]

Yes Adam, PM planers are all over the place in price. If bearings are good-ask because if not changed you probably will have to- and it is close enough that you aren't adding freight cost to the deal, 1K might get you in. Grinders add almost no cost when included but will cost you $500 separately so you should use that in the negotiation. There are so many PM out there it is tough to know the market. Oliver 399s on the other hand tend to run much higher. Dave

[Gregory Stahl]

I moved from a Grizzly 15" to a PM180 and love it! Variable speed and tons of power--who wouldn't be happy. I could probably shave off 1/2" or more in one pass if I wanted to. Instead of looking for a grinder attachment, upgrade to a Byrd head. I converse with others while using the planers all the time. It is extremely quiet with a Byrd installed.

Other benefits are the adjustable bed rollers. I adjust these on the fly if I have a board that is getting "stuck". I keep mine as low as possible and only raise them when needed. It is simple--the lever that is next to the infeed table.

I think $1200 is a bit high as that is what I paid for mine. But if it has a new Balder motor and is single phase--go for it!

Check to see if it has segmented infeed rollers--if not, offer a little less. Look at the tables as well, they will be dished if it has been heavily used. Finally, make certain it is not made in Taiwan. It will say so on the Powermatic nameplate by the serial number. In the late 80s, many were produced overseas.

Download the manual at vintagemachinery.org : http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=824

Good luck! Just a word of warning--you'll be hooked on old iron after buying this and comparing it with your asian machines!

Greg Stahl

[Aaron Berk]

That's an awfully lot of bragging for not having any pics to go along with it yet:D

What model is the Delta Jointer?
How about some good RAS pics of the Dewalt?

And your new planer sounds sweet, I've been on the hunt for one for the past yr.


And SWMBO,
Good Score. nuf said :cool:

[David Kumm]

I can guarantee the 160 is USA as is the 180, 221,224, and 225. Segmented rollers and chipbreakers are unlikely on a 16" machine and a negative on a machine that narrow as there are lots more things to break with no real benefit. If you run multiple pieces at once the 24" machines are better at it and have a separate feed motor as well. A byrd head is a nice upgrade but the guys who really know how to use a grinder and sharpen knives will argue their finish is second to none. I've never been that good with a grinder although I have one on my ITCH head planer. Dave

[Stephen Cherry]

I have one on my ITCH head planer. Dave

All this talk about planers is giving me the ITCH to get a new one. I'm trying to decide between arn and Italian.

[Gregory Stahl]

I don't know how you can guarantee that? I personally have seen PM180s with made in Taiwan stamped on them. Powermatic went overseas for a couple years before they discontinued this line of planers. Look carefully, you will find one before too long.

[Gregory Stahl]

Here is a pic of a taiwan made PM180 from a recent Sawmill Creek thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?131220-When-did-Powermatic-go-to-Taiwan



I can guarantee the 160 is USA as is the 180, 221,224, and 225. Segmented rollers and chipbreakers are unlikely on a 16" machine and a negative on a machine that narrow as there are lots more things to break with no real benefit. If you run multiple pieces at once the 24" machines are better at it and have a separate feed motor as well. A byrd head is a nice upgrade but the guys who really know how to use a grinder and sharpen knives will argue their finish is second to none. I've never been that good with a grinder although I have one on my ITCH head planer. Dave

[David Kumm]

I apologize on the 180. I thought PM had changed the model number when going overseas. The 160 was discontinued way before then so that is from here for sure. The euro vs old arn is a tough call. SCMI makes a good planer and of course Martin is big time. The guts of the machines haven't changed much. A power table would be nice but the rest of the electronics are a lot simpler on the older machines. I put a proscale on my Oliver so the height is accurate. Tersa can be had on the euro but if you want a byrd it is probably more cost effective to get an old straight knife in the 2-4k range for a 24" and add the spiral. The 24" arn had power driven feed rollers top and bottom with a separate motor. That is pretty rare in a euro. I'm going to go find out when PM went Asian on their 180. Hate when they do that. Oliver did that at the very end of their run as well. Don't buy the 299T for that reason. Dave

I posted the question about the planers as the 160 was produced later than I thought as well to the OWWM guys. I will try to get correct info.

[Gregory Stahl]

I had the Euro vs old arn dilema a couple years ago and elected to stick with my PM180/byrd combo. My school district is now the happy owner of an SCMI S520 planer, power tables, etc. The price, only $1000 for a new machine with less than 2-hours on the meter. The machine sat in storage for several years. It was bought by the state for a project that never materialzed. At least I helped my school get a great deal!

[adam peek]

I decided to go with the planner for the 1,200 and will be picking it up tuesday. My main two reasons are first the balder moder is all but brand new and single phase, thats a nice plus. also I have been watching local adds for about two years and this is the only decent old arn big planner that has popped up that is in good working order that is not several hundred miles away.

To answer a few of the questions it looks like it has not seen to hard of use in its life time from what i can tell, the in feed and out feed table looks good. It does have a chip breaker and some on did a sloppy paint job to turn it form the old green color to the newer yellow. The paint did not bother me because if it was green I would probally be repainting it and with it being the sloppy yellow I will be repainting it back to green more than likely.

[David Kumm]

The fact it started out green is good. What I have learned so far is that from the mid 1980s to about 1990 PM sourced it's castings and machine parts from Taiwan on its planers. They were probably assembled in US but even that is unclear at this point. That was during the Houdaille ownership which was not the best time for PM. Due to lots of customer complaints the practice was stopped. My understanding is that the 66 was always US made with no foreign parts. If you go to vintagemachinery.com and click knowledge index there is info on dating the machines by serial number so you will be able to narrow it down. The paint color matches and years of change are noted as well. Dave

[adam peek]

Thanks Dave and one of the things I had planed on doing first was looking up that serial number when I get it home. The other thing I am tring to find is a dust hood for it. It would not be to hard to just make one but if I find one that fits I would probaly just order it.

[David Kumm]

Further info on Taiwanese castings on late 80s PM planers. PM contracted with Chang Iron for castings on some gold planers approx 1985-1990 and the machines should be marked.
For those of you who understand cast iron ratings- I don't- the US castings were rated 35 Meehanite, the Asian castings averaged 14. Dave

Seems that the rating relates to tensile strength. Finding out there are a million types of cast iron with different properties. Ought to be fun to ask the sales people to give the specs on what little cast iron is in todays machines.