Un-finishing -- is this my only good option?

[Michael MacDonald]

this choice is really killing me. I have had a year-long project (I work really slow) to build a hutch for my wife. Lower cabinet is storage for towels and sheets. Top is bookcase with two drawers. Received the cherry in a FedEx shipment just before Christmas last year. Surprised the heck out of the FedEx guy. Good memories.

I finished the lower cabinet some time ago. BLO with amber/wax shellac.

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I have just about finished the upper bookcase. Problem is, I never really thought effectively on how I would have the bookcase sit on the lower cabinet. There have been a few other evolving strategies throughout the project, and they have all turned out really well despite my fumbling inexperience. More good memories. So I have been noodling a lot on how to do this right--i.e., securing the bookcase on the cabinet.

Along the way--too close to the end--I decided I would create a base to anchor the bookcase. And my thinking evolved that the base should really be attached to the top surface of the lower cabinet. The base is three 1/4 inch strips of cherry with a front moulding--only the face of the moulding is finished at this point. Dry fit, it looks really nice.

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It looks like the right choice might be to sand-down the top surface of the lower cabinet in order to glue the front base strip to the top of the lower cabinet. The side strips would be partially glued--because they are cross grain on the cabinet top (I would only glue a few inches at the point where the mitre joint comes together). I have thought of putting a screw (slotted hole in the wood strip to allow for wood movement of the cabinet top) in the back portion of the side strips.

The top would fit snugly into the trough created by the moulding. Here is the bookcase... without the back or the top installed yet.

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So--what do you think? Is that my best option? I have been dragging my feet because of the risk and the general backward direction of progress necessary to wrap this up, but I don't want to resort to half measures and regret it later. At this point, I need to confirm my thoughts... which is "bite the bullet, sand it down, glue and re-finish... get it over with".

I should also note that aside from the hardware, there is not one mechanical fastener in the whole darn thing. All dovetails and other joinery. So to screw it up now would really hurt.

[Conrad Fiore]

Waist molding attached to top. Couple dowel pins in base to locate in holes in bottom back edge of top. Couple of metal straps connecting top to base on rear. Isn't going anywhere and no movement problems.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Realize a couple things......When the bookcase is loaded, it is not going to want to move around. Also - if you were to ever move out of the house, you might wonder why in the heck you made it so you couldn't take the 2 sections apart. Beyond that, however:

I am assuming you want to stay away from mechanical fasteners wherever possible, simply for the personal satisfaction......

If I am correct, then you could simply drill holes down through the front base strip, and into or through the cabinet top, and glue dowels into the holes.

If I am not correct, and you aren't opposed to fasteners, then screw it. Literally. A few screws will hold the front strip to the cabinet.

Last - you can do what you are talking about more simply.......put down Famous Blue Tape on the cabinet top, outlining the outer edge of the base. Being sure to stay away from the tape, scrape/sand a narrow strip to bare wood on the cabinet top, along the outline of the base strips - you don't need 100% clear field-of-fire to glue it - maybe a 1" wide strip - doesn't have to have perfectly straight edges, just needs to be under the base, can wander around like a drunken sailor - you just want some wood-to-wood surfaces to glue it.

Whatever you do - don't sand and refinish the entire top. Life is too short.

PS - Good idea about the slotted holes in the back of the side strips.

[John Coloccia]

Ditto. I would never glue the moulding to the top but if I did, I would mask and scrape. A mechanical fastener/dowel/etc of some sort is what's called for here, though, in my opinion.

[Curt Harms]

Realize a couple things......When the bookcase is loaded, it is not going to want to move around. Also - if you were to ever move out of the house, you might wonder why in the heck you made it so you couldn't take the 2 sections apart.

That was my first thought. 2 easy to handle pieces are better than 1 tall somewhat tippy piece. If you're not in earthquake country could you just square up the mating pieces so the top sits on bottom and the protruding rectangle is buried on all 4 sides? That would keep it from sliding around wouldn't help with tipping. Stopped sliding dovetails? Slide the top onto the bottom from the back? Is it likely to get jostled once it's loaded? Looks great by the way.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Good timing.....

I just went through somewhat the same thing.
I reclaimed and old table top I'd made years ago & finished with 3 coats of spar varnish.
Not wanting to ruin the blades in my planer or jointer, I decided to see how well just sanding down the old varnish & using TBII would work.

I tried several scraps w/differing amounts of varnish removed to see how strong they were.
TBII is a very strong adhesive.
Even w/~ 30% of the varnish left on the wood, the TBII held like iron.

Note - I can't in good faith recommend not getting off all the old finish - just relating what my recent experience was.
BTW -I was working with pine. That may have had some bearing on the issue.

[Michael MacDonald]

yes... personal satisfaction was the reason for avoiding mechanical fasteners... still trying to do that.

I definitely don't plan to permanently attach the bookcase to the lower cab. It needs to be two pieces for mobility. So aside from my current situation, what is the right way to do this if I was starting from scratch?

I have two follow-up questions:

1. if I just scrape/sand a strip for gluing (which I have considered), would the moulding pieces be in close enough proximilty to the clear strip to create a strong glue joint? or would the layer of finish hold up the base off the sanded strip... I had heard that direct contact was really needed for a good glue joint. except perhaps with some epoxies that fill gaps. (I realize we are talking about very small distances here... I wasn't sure the order of magnitude necessay to make a TB glue joint fail.)

2. If I use dowels (rather than screws.. though much the same in effect), would the mitre still hold over time? I don't want the seam to start to show... and the moulding base is too thin to reliably glue the end grain of the mitre and hope that the joint will hold, I think.

Overall, this is good feedback... I had a conisdered a bunch of options, but I kept coming back to wanting to "do it right"... and I thought that meant wholesale sanding and refinishing. Because of reservatinos about my two follow-up items above. It sounds like those issue are not material, and I would either just scrape a clear strip, or I could use dowels... Those are both better options.

Thanks!

[Kent A Bathurst]

Michael.......I'm not sure I entirely understand your questions, but I'll take a shot - I may be missing a point, tho...

The base is 3 pieces of raw wood, and the molding is 3 strips of molding, Correct?

Seems to me that you scrape/sand a place to glue the front base piece, and the front couple inches of the base side pieces, to the cabinet top. Get those in place, with the slotted holes. Then glue the back of the molding strips [assuming their backs aren't varnished] to the front edges of the base pieces - no need to glue them to the cabinet top - in fact I would think you don't want to attach the molding to the cabinet top.

If you use dowels to attach the base pieces, I would still glue the molding to the edges of the base pieces. To the extent that you glue/dowel the base pieces near their outer perimeters, then they will expand toward the inside.........but those are so narrow I don't know that is an issue either way. If the front edges of those pieces don't move, then your molding won't be dragged around, and their miters will stay tight[er].

[Michael MacDonald]

Kent... Putting this in from a mobile phone, so I will make it brief. The base and moulding are one strip. I took some 3/4" boards, routed the edge with two diff bits, then hogged out a trough for the bookcase to sit in using a dado blade. So if the base moves, the moulded front seam could come apart... But your comment about putting dowels closer to the front edge would help mitigate the possibility. Thanks..

[Kent A Bathurst]

You are gonna be fine. Very nice method on the base!!!

I have a bit of a sense that you are making this into something bigger than it really is - we all do that, particularly with an important piece we have spent a lot of time and creative energy on.

Don't overdrive your headlights...........:D :D

[Michael MacDonald]

I think you are right... I like the idea of dowels... easier than scraping. I am going to do that. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks!