First Successful Plane Hunt

[Bernadette Semilla]

Hi there guys, I'm new to woodworking and thanks to budget, space, noise, dust limitations, and a healthy appreciation for history, I'm starting with good old hand tools. Anyways, I'm sure that's not what you're here for!

http://i.imgur.com/vgbTxl.jpg (http://imgur.com/vgbTx)

Got a Sargent VBM of some sort (not yet familiar with any type studies for Sargent), Stanley No4C, and Stanley No5-1/2C. I think the 4C is a type 15 or 16, I suspect this will be clarified once I can clean and inspect the lateral adjuster. Mostly though, I'm posting for help for Sargent resources and for ID on the 5-1/2C. It has BAILEY between the knob and rib, missing any STANLEY on the lever cap, and 3 patent dates on the bed- as best as I could make them out: MAR 25-02, AUG 19-02, APR 19-10. Where (or when, rather) does that place it?

[Michael H Greene]

The bailey with the 3 patent dates is most likely a type 11 (1910-1918). These are thought by Chris Scwarz to be some of the better Baileys made. Keep us updated on the restoration. Here is a Bailey type study: http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip9/stanley/stan-bpl/bailey-types.htm > I don't know much about the Sargents so I cant help you there.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Welcome to SMC Bernadette and congratulations on your successful safari. There isn't as much info available online about Sargent planes as there is about Stanleys, but here are a couple of resources:

The Sargent Planes site (http://www.sargent-planes.com/).
Interesting Sargent catalog (http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id141.html).

[Mark Dorman]

Welcome to the Creek Bernadette. This is a another link with a little Sargent info. http://www.horizontalheavens.com/418vs418VBM%20Comparison.htm
I understand the space, budget and noise limitations thats what started me down the slippery slope.

Mark

[Steve Branam]

You're absolutely here for all the right reasons! Plus, you'll have a lot of fun. Nothing like a good rusty adventure. Seriously, though, make sure you're up to date on your tetanus shot. You WILL cut yourself handling these tools, and you WILL get gunk in the cut (that's my equivalent of the "be sure to use push sticks" welcome warning you'll get in the power tool forums ;)).

[Jim Koepke]

Bernadette,

Welcome to the Creek and all the rust you can find. Your profile doesn't indicate where you are located. You could be next door to one of us right now.:eek:

The 5-1/2 looks like it has the short knob of a type 11 but the depth adjuster looks like it is the 1-1/4" size used on a type 12. Can't be real certain without more pictures. Either one of these parts could have been changed. The emblem on the blade would be a good indicator, but these are also subject to change. The lever cap looks like it might be a type 12.

It also looks like the base is welded near the mouth or it has some globs of dirt that makes it look like a weld. That will detract from collector value, but I have seen repaired bodies on good user planes.

The #4 may be a type 17 from WW II. It is also a bit different. It looks like it has a small depth adjuster, but has a raised ring around the knob. The adjuster may have been swapped with the #5-1/2.

The Sargent has the early style blade. I am not sure when Sargent changed their blades. I think the Stanley patent on the large hole at the bottom expired in 1907. I'm not sure if it lost in court before that date.

Looks like you have a bit of plane fettling fun ahead of you.

Near the top this conference is a "Sticky" named "Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs that has a few threads on cleaning up old planes. They will be helpful in your journey of bringing these planes back to productive tools.

Have fun and if you have 'em, ask 'em,

jtk

[Greg Wease]

Sargent used the "VBM" label during the same period as your Type 11 Bailey, 1910-1918. Sargents of that era are good, solid planes. Be sure to check the flatness of your 5 1/2 sole carefully as it appears to have been broken and welded. Looks like you have a few layers of "history" to clean off before using!

[Mark Dorman]

I use thE bay for research sometimes. You might find clues of age and type and also see what they should have for parts etc.

Mark

[Bernadette Semilla]

Hey fellas, thanks for the warm welcome and information! I'm actually in Vancouver, BC. Salty air y'know- good for the soul, not so good for the iron. But I don't mind getting my hands dirty.

Jim and Greg were right to point out the weld- toe seems to be a whole 16th inch off the rest of the sole :( but, judging from the wood still stuck on the frog when I took it apart, it was good enough to keep using for the last user. I won't judge the poor boy 'til he makes some shavings. All the metal's going in a citric acid bath while I do some weekend chores for the parents.

[Mark Baldwin III]

A piece of granite or a good thick chunk of glass will help a lot with making sure everything is flat. After bringing some of my planes back to life, I believe that a granite plate is a must have for rehab. In the absence of granite/glass, that resin coated MDF may be a good alternative.

[Bernadette Semilla]

I've actually got a glass lapping plate from having to flatten a new bought 60-1/2 before. I was using thick plastic sheets on it so it should still be true, but thank you for reminding me.

For now, the Stanley family will taking a night swim since $10 at the health food store only bought me enough powder for a 10% citric acid concentration and Sargent Rusty's Seized Screws Club Band are hitting the Moovit to loosen up. Those two are the only ones that need this treatment thanks to the power of vise grip pliers.

http://i.imgur.com/fRn9tl.jpg (http://imgur.com/fRn9t) http://i.imgur.com/2curbl.jpg (http://imgur.com/2curb)

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Kudos to you on making those work. After my last fettling experiences, I've chickened out and payed more to have less to do, but there's something inexplicably pleasing about take an old rust bucket and making it sing.

[Jim Koepke]

there's something inexplicably pleasing about take an old rust bucket and making it sing.

Not quite, but almost as pleasing as holding your newborn child.

jtk

[daniel lane]

Not quite, but almost as pleasing as holding your newborn child.

jtk

Takes a lot less fettling for newborn kids, though! :p

Oh, and welcome, Bernadette!


daniel

[Bill Houghton]

Takes a lot less fettling for newborn kids, though! :p

Oh, and welcome, Bernadette!


daniel

Yeah, but once you get a plane fettled, the subsequent work is minimal; the workload for kids, on the other hand, is an ascending curve.

Back to the subject: Bernadette, if you have trouble finding enough material for good citric acid baths, white vinegar works well, too.

[Jim Koepke]

If you want to find a large piece of granite, look for someone who makes monuments (grave markers come to mind). It will be heavy. I made a large saw horse to hold mine. I hope I never have to move it.

Powder to make citric acid shouldn't cost so much. Are there any wine making supply stores in your area?

I have heard some people have even had good luck using powdered lemonade. Just don't try drinking it.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

If you want to find a large piece of granite, look for someone who makes monuments (grave markers come to mind). It will be heavy. I made a large saw horse to hold mine. I hope I never have to move it.


Plus one on this; I've gotten granite slabs from a place that makes both countertops, grave stones and decorative items. I was surprised at the size of the piece they were willing to give to me for free the first time, and when i went back years later for something a little longer, they only charged me like 10 dollars. "scrap" for them is often larger than you'd think.

[Bernadette Semilla]

Hi Guys,

Sorry I've been scarce lately. Thanks for the advice about the granite, I'll definitely take a look into that. The 5C I got is a lost cause, the toe end is just way too out of joint. I'm planning on taking it back after I've cleaned it up and asking the store owner if I can trade it for one of the other rust monsters he's got. It was hard to admit to myself since he didn't have any other jacks and I haven't seen any others in Vancouver. But I guess sometimes the heavens open up and good fortune shines upon oneself because I've returned to gloat.

Now, Van Flea Market is hardly a flea market. A full 90% of the stuff I saw couldn't have been older than the 70s and most of the 10% I saw that was old was expensive. So when I picked up a plane and felt it definitely wasn't cast iron, I thought "Well heck, another bust." But I did still need a jack, I didn't think it was aluminium, and the sides, while not straight like a bedrock, were unusual. It was a Stanley, that much was clear from the red painted rectangle logo on the lever cap and some parts were older design like the 5C. If nothing else, I had a nice windowsill ornament. So I ask the man how much and he says $15. I probably could have haggled but I liked him and it was in pretty good condition so I said alright.

Gents, say hello my new Stanley S5. This is as found condition except for me brushing off the toe and the SW logo.

231951231949231950231948

[Mark Dorman]

nice find for 15$
a little info here (http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan1.htm#nums5) and here (http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au/stanley%20by%20numbers/Stanley%205.htm)

[Kevin Lucas]

That's a new one to me with those sloped sides. Neat looking )

[Maurice Ungaro]

Oooohh! an S5! I've only seen that on the pages of Patrick Leach's site. That one should be bomb proof.

[Bernadette Semilla]

Hi guys, thanks for the info. It's actually perfect for me since I wanted a lighter jack but was put off by the juniors being a bit smaller.

Got another find for y'all but this one's a sad one. You see, my Dad's a tool abuser. It's usually not too bad because most of his stuff are Mastercraft (Canadian Tire house brand) but somehow an unfortunate EA Berg Eskilstuna found it's way into his toolbox one day... Should I even try to fix the bend? It seems risky.

232325232326232327232328

[David Weaver]

A steel #5 with a sweetheart iron in it, pretty good stuff for $15.

[Jim Koepke]

Should I even try to fix the bend?

Maybe you could try opening the same number of paint cans going the other way…

Actually, this doesn't look like a great chisel. You might be able to straighten it, but it could always be a beater chisel for the rough stuff.

jtk

[Sam Takeuchi]

That crappy handle aside, that is a VERY good chisel. That's a Berg, late one I assume (I'm guessing late 1950s or so)! One of the most recognizable and reputable quality chisel makers amongst many. If you could somehow straighten that, and maybe do something about the handle, that would make a wonderful chisel. Personally I consider Berg to be one of the best vintage chisel brands.

[Bruce Haugen]

That's not an excessive amount of bend in that Berg chisel. Try straightening a bit at a time, and you will soon be looking for more Bergs, my favorite chisel. There seem to be a fair amount in your neck of the woods.

[Bernadette Semilla]

If you want to find a large piece of granite, look for someone who makes monuments (grave markers come to mind). It will be heavy. I made a large saw horse to hold mine. I hope I never have to move it.

Powder to make citric acid shouldn't cost so much. Are there any wine making supply stores in your area?

I have heard some people have even had good luck using powdered lemonade. Just don't try drinking it.

jtk


Plus one on this; I've gotten granite slabs from a place that makes both countertops, grave stones and decorative items. I was surprised at the size of the piece they were willing to give to me for free the first time, and when i went back years later for something a little longer, they only charged me like 10 dollars. "scrap" for them is often larger than you'd think.

Hey guys, thanks for the advice. I actually have a few stoneworks nearby I'll call up for off cuts. I would have preferred float glass for lighter weight but it seems the nearby glaziers dispose of offcuts immediately for lack of space (that's living in the city for you).

About the chisel, I squeezed it hard as I could in my vise and the last 2-3" are fairly flat now. Looks like I get to use it after all! I've taken the old plastic handle off by boiling in water to loosen and removing with locking pliers. I haven't got access to a lathe but I'll see if I can't carve a serviceable handle. The plane is now derusted but also without japanning! If mine had the original left I think I know why so few are intact these days as it came off even using the softest of brass brushes. I'm still living with my parents so I don't think a traditional ashphaltum japanning bake will be doable, can you fellows suggest any alternatives such as a good enamel paint?

[Jim Ritter]

Mark, I have some 1 1/4" thick bullet resistant lexan that works real well.

[Jim Koepke]

I have used some spray paint that comes from automotive supply stores. It is a gloss engine black if my memory is working.

Give it a few coats. It may take a few days to really set up well.

Be patient.

Often Home Depot has black gloss enamel at 99¢ a can. I have been tempted to try it, but still have a lot of the other left.

jtk

[steven c newman]

233338this is about two coats of the cheaper Rustoleum Gloss Black spray in a can paint. Looks a bit better than the before picture233339 Four dollar plane meets four dollar spray paint.

[Bernadette Semilla]

Thanks fellas, I found a can of Tremclad acrylic-enamel spray when I was rooting through supplies; I'll let y'all know how it goes.

[steven c newman]

I've got a Union 5A coming in tomorrow's mail. Needs a lot of clean up, and a "paint job" too. I'll post a couple pictures as it goes back to "as new".