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Jim H. Rogers
10-21-2011, 10:25 AM
Any one want to talk about timber framing?

Rich Engelhardt
10-22-2011, 7:26 AM
I guess not...

However, IIRC, the Wickwire's project was the all time most viewed project of This Old House.

Jim H. Rogers
10-22-2011, 9:48 AM
I was watching "this old house" last night, and saw the "window woman" who is going to restore their windows. I've been to her shop as I did some milling for her and her husband. Her shop is great and I can't wait to see the tour of it with Norm. The have the great down draft table for cleaning the windows that is fabulous.

Jim Rogers

Kevin L. Pauba
10-24-2011, 8:48 AM
I would love to talk Timber Framing ... but the conversation with me would likely be one-sided. I'm currently just a dreamer collecting TF tools but hope to start a small TF project soon (and continue with progressively harder projects).

Jim H. Rogers
10-24-2011, 12:06 PM
So, you have been starting to collect timber framing tools.
What do you have so far?
What do you need?
If you're not sure of what you need, I can post a list of suggested tools for you.
And I can help you acquire more tools, I know where you can get some.
I do know a good starter project for you as well.
Something fairly simple, just three pieces of timber.
It is a mailbox post.
211046

Steve Griffin
10-24-2011, 4:02 PM
Built a 16x20 cabin in Alaska with hemlock/spruce trees milled on site.

Tools needed:
-2" big ol chisel
-1" chisel
-Big corner chisel
-mallet
-1" auger bit and 1/2" drill
-Skill saw
-Persuader mallet, come-a-long, ropes and 12 friends needed for assembly.

Once the timber frame is up, then you can start building another house around it. Twice the work, twice the cost and twice the fun of conventional construction!

Kevin L. Pauba
10-25-2011, 9:10 AM
I have the following so far:

* Stanley shark tooth saw, 20" 9 tpi
* 3" slick (need to turn a handle)
* 10" broad axe
* Adze
* 2" framing chisel
* 1.5" framing chisel
* 1" corner chisel
* Brace and bits
* Hand plane
* Good books:
* Jack Sobon's "Build a Classic Timber-Framed House"
* Rupert Newman's "Oak-Framed Buildings"
* Jack Sogon and Roger Schroeder's "Timber Frame Construction"
* Tedd Benson's "Building the Timber Frame House"

That's a nice mailbox post. I'll probably give that a try although I'd probably give it away or sell it since I get mail delivery to my door. Here were the projects that I was planning (in the rough order that I'd construct them):

* Framing horses (I really like Rooster's Mare a Colt plans)
* Your mailbox post
* Timber canopy (I think this will blend very well with my english tudor home). Might build a few of these.
* Garden shed
* Small firewood storage shed (maybe 1/2 cord) for my dad.
* Porch/entryway roof.
* One or two car garage
* Great room addition
* Jack Sobon house for a son (he'll build it, I'll help)

I'm cursed with the urge to do everything myself. Since I don't (yet) have a sawmill, I'm thinking of hewing my own timbers for the smaller projects. I'm reluctant to bother a sawyer for such small quantities of wood for the earlier projects. I do have a budding friendship started with a local arborist and am tortured daily when I drive buy his large pile of logs stacked up at his tree business. I see the pile every day I go to and return from work. He's already shown me the two band mills and one swing mill that he has (one bandmill has never been used and all of them are sitting idle since he has so little time).

PS: I must confess ... I frequent both the forestry forum and the arborists site and read all of your posts for the last year or so. What a wonderful service you provide by sharing your knowledge to the rest of us, Roger.

Jim H. Rogers
10-25-2011, 10:19 AM
Kevin:
You have a great list of tools, books and projects.

When you get to the garden shed, say the one from Jack's book, let me know. We did this one here as a class project and we modified some of the joints due to advice from Dave Carlon who teaches with Jack at the one event they do each year.

You could talk it over with the arborist near you to see if he'll let you use one of his sawmills to mill out some stock for your projects and you could mill some stock for him. He could either use that stock for his projects or he could sell it. Work out a deal and he may say yes. If he says no, don't give up he may think it over and if you ask again another time he may say yes, because then he may need some lumber.

Years ago, I attended a demonstration of "how to hew" by Mike Beaudry. A friend video taped the event. I have compiled all his short videos shots into a movie showing how to hew. If you'd like a copy let me know, I'll burn you one on a dvd or cd and mail it out to you. There are some clips of this event on YouTube posted by ourbarns. Search for it and you'll see a conversation with Mike and Jack Sobon.

Also, I have a one page drawing of a timber saw horse with dimensions that I would send you via email if you want it. You can adjust the dimensions to make them the size you want, if they aren't completely right for you. Just let me know.

Good luck with your projects and all I can say is "keep asking questions"....

Jim Rogers

PS.
Once the timber frame is up, then you can start building another house around it. Twice the work, twice the cost and twice the fun of conventional construction!
Enjoy a timber frame cabin you built yourself, and erected with friends for the rest of your life = priceless........

Kevin L. Pauba
10-25-2011, 11:03 PM
When you get to the garden shed, say the one from Jack's book, let me know. We did this one here as a class project and we modified some of the joints due to advice from Dave Carlon who teaches with Jack at the one event they do each year.


Will do, thanks!



You could talk it over with the arborist near you to see if he'll let you use one of his sawmills to mill out some stock for your projects and you could mill some stock for him. He could either use that stock for his projects or he could sell it. Work out a deal and he may say yes. If he says no, don't give up he may think it over and if you ask again another time he may say yes, because then he may need some lumber.


That's a good idea -- I would bet that the winter months might be particularly slow for the arborist so now would be a good time to "make my move".



Years ago, I attended a demonstration of "how to hew" by Mike Beaudry. A friend video taped the event. I have compiled all his short videos shots into a movie showing how to hew. If you'd like a copy let me know, I'll burn you one on a dvd or cd and mail it out to you. There are some clips of this event on YouTube posted by ourbarns. Search for it and you'll see a conversation with Mike and Jack Sobon.

That's an offer that I can't refuse. I would like to pay the shipping costs, though. Perhaps you know of someone around your parts that has an adze handle or even a broadaxe handle, do you?

Ryan Mooney
10-25-2011, 11:14 PM
Not sure if it counts, but have built a number of gates and feeders using what were essentially timber framing methods (bore a bunch of holes, put some smaller poles shaved to fit in them - peg or wedge in place). Makes really nice light pieces comparatively.

On the tool side, I've been looking for some good large (1" up to say maybe 3") hand crank augers of a specific style for a long while with no luck. We used to have some that had a loop at the top that you could put a handle through cross wise (like a T with the bit at the bottom), they were all roughly 2 feet long. These were really handy for big holes since you had a lot of torque being able to lean over it and twist with both hands. I recall we made some of them on the forge hammering them out and twisting while hot then filing the screw point in at the bottom, but I don't think they were all farm made. I don't currently have a forge (and its been a few years so.. skills.. yeah.. not so much anymore) so if anyone knows where you might find something like this I would be pretty happy :D

Larry Edgerton
10-26-2011, 7:41 AM
I read your blog over on the forestry forum as well. I don't do post and beam full time but get one once in a while. Not enough people in my area to be that specialized. Now I'm working on a modern beachhouse and an oak log home at the same time. Jeckal and Hyde.

I have a 20' octagon oak post and beam gazebo coming up as soon as I finish the log place. Looking forward to it. I love working in the shop making the parts, and I love how fast they go up on site. I get $15 more an hour in the shop!

Jim H. Rogers
10-26-2011, 10:49 AM
Not sure if it counts, but have built a number of gates and feeders using what were essentially timber framing methods (bore a bunch of holes, put some smaller poles shaved to fit in them - peg or wedge in place). Makes really nice light pieces comparatively.

On the tool side, I've been looking for some good large (1" up to say maybe 3") hand crank augers of a specific style for a long while with no luck. We used to have some that had a loop at the top that you could put a handle through cross wise (like a T with the bit at the bottom), they were all roughly 2 feet long. These were really handy for big holes since you had a lot of torque being able to lean over it and twist with both hands. I recall we made some of them on the forge hammering them out and twisting while hot then filing the screw point in at the bottom, but I don't think they were all farm made. I don't currently have a forge (and its been a few years so.. skills.. yeah.. not so much anymore) so if anyone knows where you might find something like this I would be pretty happy :D

The tool you're talking about is called a "T" handle auger. I have an extra one I would sell, but the size of the bit is 2 1/2", which is a size that could be unusual.
Also, I have some extra bits and some handles, maybe I could find something you could use.
What size are you looking for?

Jim H. Rogers
10-26-2011, 10:51 AM
Larry, thanks for your comments.
It is fun to put it all together in one day.

Chuck Wintle
10-26-2011, 1:25 PM
Any one want to talk about timber framing?

what kind of wood is used for a timber framed house or larger project? How long does it need to be dried before use or can it go up green? I have seen them timber frame on tv and it looks like there a huge cracks etc. i the wood.

Jim H. Rogers
10-26-2011, 1:49 PM
what kind of wood is used for a timber framed house or larger project?
Usually local woods are used. Sometimes they are hardwoods such as red/white oak. Sometimes they are softwoods such as White pine, hemlock, spruce, Southern yellow pine. And also Douglas fir.

How long does it need to be dried before use or can it go up green?
Well, some people seem to think they need to "season" there timbers, but we usually do everything with green wood.

I have seen them timber frame on tv and it looks like there a huge cracks etc. i the wood.
When the green would drys out there will be cracks. This is the character of the frame or of timber framing. It is expected that they will crack. You have to understand that this will happen.
There are ways to try and direct the crack to a non showing face, but I'm not totally sure how well that works.

Good questions Chuck, thanks for asking.

Jim Rogers

Larry Edgerton
10-27-2011, 6:36 AM
It is fun to put it all together in one day.

I did a cedar 18'x14' post and beam porch a couple of years ago on a new house others were framing. I pulled in an they asked how many days that was going to take. I told them 3 hours and they just laughed. I was working alone. Three hours and five minutes later I drove the last peg.

These guys were "condokazis" and were amazed because they did not have a clue. They didn't see the four days in the shop getting it ready.

It was fun.....

Larry