sawing at the workbench - halfback or sash saw?

[Martin Rock]

Hi All

I would like to purchase a saw for crosscuting to final lenght at the workbench. I will be perfecting the cut afterwards at the shooting board.

My first thought was to go with a 16" sash saw with a little help from the bench hook. But I am also considering the halfback saw used at the end of the bench so I can cut more at an angle.

I already have a 12" xcut tenon saw for joinery, so this next saw will be more for cutting larger boards

I not to keen too go with a backsaw / miterbox combo.

I would like to get some comments / suggestions from people who saw at the bench.

thanks

Martin

[andrew messimer]

I have a few different backsaws I use at the bench for crosscutting. I use the 14" saw the most, however I also really like my 16" saw. The weight and length really help speed up the cut. I have used the 16" saw with bench hooks to cut 1x8 material, but I think that is pushing it. I only did that because it was all I had at the time. I think if I needed to saw something wider than 6" I would go for a panel saw or full size saw on saw benches. If you are going to use a shooting board anyways, then why worry about having the accuracy of a back saw.

[Derek Cohen]

It depends.

It depends on the width and thickness of the wood. It depends on the finish you can achieve with each saw type ... finer teeth with less set will leave a better finish ... a backsaw (by definition has a reinforced back) will produce a straighter cut than a panel saw (which the halfback saw it regardless of the fact that it has some reinforcing).

In the end it depends on how much time you want to spend at the shooting board - whether you plan a trim to square it up, or a reworking to also remove roughsaw marks (breakout, etc).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Griggs]

+1 on the previous comments,

A large backsaw is a great thing to have for crosscuts at the bench, but a small or full size panel is great for final dimensioning as well. To some extent the choice depends on how wide the pieces you generally crosscut are. At the point you are xcutting pieces more than 6-8" wide using a backsaw at the bench becomes pretty inefficient. Since you already have a 12" xcut backsaw, I'd advise a saw w/o a back. If you really want to be able to use it at the workbench an 18-20" panel saw might be the ticket - I have a 20" atkins that in addition to being used on a sawbench, get's used a lot on my workbench with a benchhook for wide cuts where I want the extra accuracy. Because of their shorter lengths small panel saws are stiff enough to be used like a backsaw at the bench, despite their lack of a back.

[Jim Matthews]

I start crosscuts on the end of my bench with my backsaw, which has a depth limit just over 2 inches.
I finish with my panel saw which slightly widens the kerf.

This requires the second saw to be properly sharpened and set to follow the same line.

With the first pass made by the backsaw, the second pass follows very straight.
I didn't need to buy a more expensive saw to reach this depth as a result of using the tools I already own.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I was just doing last night what Jim mentions, making a bunch of 2º cuts across some 5" or 6" hard maple. I started the cut with my Gramercy carcase saw, and finished with my 22", 11pt Disston No. 12. I did all the work at the sawbenches (I'm still working on the workbench.) Worked quite well for me, although several cuts in, ( I think I had to make maybe a couple dozen of these or so?) I switched to just using the panel saw. Was starting the cuts crouching from below, to make sure I could follow both lines easier, and finished from above - after a few cuts, I also switched to just doing all the work from below.

I started with the carcase saw because I was nervous about my ability to cut accurately with the panel saw, which ended up being a moot point.

After having gotten used to the panel saw, (which is recently sharpened, and kind of new to me) plumb comes pretty naturally, and I really only had to worry about following the line. I think I only had a couple of cuts from the batch that needed any finessing - a couple of swipes with the block plane to make the edge square. Had I been shooting them, most of them would have only needed a couple of swipes athe board to get a polished edge. With a well tuned saw, the work goes pretty well. I used a notch on the starting corner to help start accurately, and the "trench" along the saw cut so the first couple cuts I could lay down the angle low, follow the trench and get things started well. A few careful strokes to start things, and the rest of the cut is pretty much on auto-pilot.

The only issue was a bit of tearout/fraying on the back side, which wasn't an issue for these pieces - the tiniest of chamfers with a block plane cleaned them up.

It took me a while to get to this point, but as I've tuned up my saws and gotten more accurate, I've been using my panel saws for more and more and still getting accurate results - I was cutting the half laps and bridal joints with my 7 pt rip saw the other week. Sometimes, I feel like the faster cut and longer blade actually help my accuracy.

Rambling aside - unless I need the super clean exit cut (without knifing all the way around) that a bench hook can help provide, I've switched to a panel saw for anything my carcase saw can't handle.

[Jim Koepke]

With a bench hook I always use a back saw.

One of the problems with a long saw is if it is not held level, it can hit the top of the bench and leave a mark.

The "real" answer to the OP's question is what ever works best for the person making the cut.

For pieces in the 8" range or wider, my saw benches are almost used for cross cutting.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Probably want to consider the hang angle of the handle of any saw you want to use with a bench hook - I find I have a hell of a time using a panel saw at a bench height because the angle makes sawing really weird, which throws my accuracy out the window - my arm really wants to get behind the saw. Maybe this is better with a proper-height bench. (I'm using my bench hook on the kitchen counter until my bench gets finished...) I feel like the pictures I've seen with a half-back saw, the hang angle has been closer to a panel saw than a backsaw, but I also haven't looked real close, and I could be totally wrong.

I think I should shut up, and defer to Jim K's answer here - "what ever works best for the person making the cut" is really the best answer!