Some questions about building my first bench with only hand tools

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

This is my first post, though I've lurked for a long time and been very impressed with the knowledge, support and culture here. So many times I've come here to ask a question and found the answer already provided in response to the same or similar question already posted by someone else, but in this case I'm actually a bit overwhelmed by the amount of information here on the topic of bench building.


Some context: I've built things out of wood and occasionally metal or plastic my whole life, including a handful of instruments but always thought furniture was out of reach because I lack a planer, joiner and table saw. I finally downloaded a bunch of 1800's books on woodworking and joinery from gutenberg.org and archive.org and realized how much can be done without big things that make noise and eat fingers and cash - both of which I have only in quite limited supply. (plus turning on the microwave while my girlfriend dries her hair will trip the breaker in this rental, I suspect a table saw is beyond that).

I have lots of time and patience, but limited money, skills, tools. I'm very much looking forward to the act of building the bench, not just hurrying to have the finished project. I don't care if it takes a long time and I do expect to replace or rebuild it after some time of use as I learn what I like. For now I'm just looking at the base. I'll use the current mdf top for a bit until I can afford wood for the top.

First question: I think I'll build this workbench out of the douglas fir available at the local home store. I know it is very hard to say without seeing the wood, but I'd like some hints on how long I need to sticker the wood first. Note that most of it is sold as "Green douglas fir lumber". I can't afford a moisture meter. I've read I should trim the edges and cover them with duct tape - to slow down the end grain drying, I assume. Is this whole idea unsound, will it take weeks, months, years? Most likely I can store it indoors though in the horribly insulated added on room I use as a shop. I'm in Berkeley, CA - mild winters. Comments, suggestions, running screaming at the thought all appreciated.

Second question: I've looked at many designs out there and while the torsion box types are probably easiest to build well and cheaply, I would love to try something more interesting - even if it comes out sloppy and I have to add "features" (bolts, more wood as braces...) and am thinking of trying the design for the base shown here, though I suspect it won't work well at all with the soft wood: http://americanwoodworker.com/blogs/projects/archive/2011/05/12/ws-wedged-base-workbench.aspx
It uses joinery and wedges to hold it together rather than screws, bolts, glue. I will be doing this all by hand (maybe using a circular saw I was just given if I really must). I'd love a bench I can knock down to move since we rent but I need sturdy for planing etc. I don't mind it taking a long time - I see it as a fun thing to build rather than just something to make asap to use. Is this kind of joinery compatible with using softwoods or will it just tear apart? Almost all my experience has been with hard maple, which I can't afford for this.

Third question: I don't have a sense of how much it would cost to build this with maple or other hardwood available here. Looking for larger stock for the legs, for example... no luck locally. McBeath Hardwoods up the road lists only 4/4 and 8/4 sizes. Anybody on in the region (or otherwise) have suggestions? What would you do? Where would you get your lumber? I find this part intimidating. I have no problem walking into Home Depot and picking though piles, but going to McBeath or knowing what is a good buy online, I'm rather lost.

I'll make the base and use the current mdf top until I can afford to build a proper top, and will change the base plans so they fit my needs more.

Thanks!

[Bill Moser]

FitzHugh -
I would stay very, very far away from the design in that american woodworker article you posted. It looks like it just *wants* to rack :) Another SMC regular describes his build of a David Charlesworth-style bench here: http://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/projects/bench/bench.htm . He also includes links to Davids original article. I have also build this bench, and can tell you that it's straightforward to build, and can be knocked down (I've done it several times with mine). David specifies hardwood in his article, but there's no reason that you couldn't build it out of doug fir. Actually, it will be more forgiving than the cherry I used for the base -- getting a good fit in mortises of such a large size is not so easy in hardwood! Also, it this is your first go with hand tools, screwing up is much less pricey in doug fir :). As far as drying goes, if you can't get K/D fir, you'll have to wait a couple of years before you even think of getting started on it. Plenty of time for practicing on smaller projects....

[James Owen]

Welcome to the Cave!!

Here is my nickel's worth. Others will undoubtedly have different advice.

First, I would suggest that -- if you don't already have it or haven't yet read it -- you either buy or check out from the library, Chris Schwartz's first book on benches, Workbenches: From Design And Theory To Construction And Use. It will tell you essentially everything you need to know about benches, building them, and deciding what kind of bench you want for the kind of woodworking you plan to do. IMO the best book on benches on the market. His second book is also useful, but goes into some of the more esoteric aspects of benches.....

Douglas fir will work fine. My experience here is that Lowe's has drier wood than Home Depot; that may or may not be the case in Berkeley. I have some 8 foot 4 X 6s that I picked up at Lowe's about 6 months ago....they have dried considerably since then....they've been stickered mainly because I have had other projects that I had to get done first, before building a bench. BTW, those 8 foot 4 x 6s were only about $17 each here; MUCH less expensive than the $8 to $10 per board for hard maple, with 12/4 being the thickest available locally.....

Knock-down designs are certainly easier to move, particularly if you need a portable bench, but, like everything else there is a trade off: they tend to be a bit less stable than benches with "permanent" joinery. Having said that, though, mainly what is required, assuming good tight joinery in the first place, is that the wedges have to be tapped tight periodically; how often depends on how often you use the bench,and what you were doing on the bench (as an example, if you do a lot of planing, you're probably going to have to tighten the wedges more frequently than if you do more mortise and tenon making....). Depending on the size of your bench, you may not have to worry about it: a 5 or 6 foot long by 20 to 24 inch wide bench is going to be more or less the same to move whether it is knock-down or permanent joinery.... Personally, I prefer permanent joinery.

I haven't lived in the Bay Area for over 12 years, so no idea on where to suggest for wood. However, if you go with Douglas Fir, I would suggest that you get enough to also build the top (you're looking at 4 to 6 additional pieces, depending on how wide you want your bench. 3½" thick +/- is plenty for most applications, including planing. Assuming that 4x6 prices are similar, you should be able to build your entire bench for (quite a bit) less than $200 in wood.

Hope that this is of some use to you.

Good luck and have fun with your bench build!

[Andrew Gibson]

Welcome to the creek... my advise would be as follows

Take the time, find a deal and get wood and make a wood top. don't wase your time with an mdf top... I have done it before and will never do it again... that is my personal preference.

If you are looking for a collapsabe bench, I work at one 8 to 12 hours a day, here is my thread on it... I am not disapointed with it at all. Other then the fact that it is not twice as long. :)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?154348-Work-Bench-Time&highlight=

Sorry its been a long couple days, can't think of anything else...

ooh wood top is your frind when using dogs and holdfasts, which you will want and love if doing a lot of hand work.

[Jim Matthews]

If you're willing to consider a different approach, Joshua Finn (http://www.woodfever.net/2009/12/new-workbench-completed.html) produced something that is simple, efficient and highly portable.
It could easily be built by hand, although the heavy reliance on screw fasteners would be tiresome.

FYI - I'll drill holes with my egg beater, brace and chest drill but I drive screws with a Makita.

I recommend three books written in the modern era for the approach you suggest;
Anthony Guidice "The seven essentials of woodworking" - the book that started me thinking as you do, build by hand.
Tom Fidgen "By Hand" from the Unplugged workshop (http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/), an exploration of the skill set by building shop gear.
Jim Tolpin "The New traditional woodworker", the most thoughtful text with realistic methods for a working professional.

Were I to purchase only one, I would go with the Tolpin text.

Lastly, if you have a chance to purchase a workable bench, outright you will save valuable shop time for making furniture rather than tools.
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My bench cost me $50 from Craigslist, and I've added features that work for me as needs arose.

[Steve Branam]

I've built two benches by hand over the past 2 years, one from Chris Schwarz's book, and one a collapsible bench from one of Roy Underhill's books. You can read about them, with lots of pictures of the builds, at http://www.closegrain.com/2009/10/my-roubo.html and http://www.closegrain.com/2010/08/portable-workbench.html.

One thing about building your own workbench, it's a great practice and learning experience, and if you make a few mistakes, it's not the end of the world. It's a workbench, meant to take a beating. It will get abused over the years, so it's not necessary to build a showpiece (though there are some out there that are as beautiful as any piece of fine furniture you might find). It does need to be sturdy.

[Trevor Walsh]

As long as books are up, I love Lost Art Press's reprint of The Essential Woodworker, it's one of my hands down favorites.

As for wood, are there any pallet wood/old beam salvage yards out there? We get a lot of these out east, beams from barns and old homes, the yard where I got my bench lumber reclaims pallets, BIG industrial shipping pallets. All dry 4" by 6" in 6-10' lengths. They are cleaning up pretty well. I hope to get them back out from the bottom of my lumber stack soon. (I have to build a bed first).

[Chris Mahmood]

Hi neighbor. You can get kiln dried Doug fir at Ashby Lumber, Truitt and White, etc. Ashby will let you pick through the piles a little in my experience, just go in late afternoon or weekend when the yard isn't too busy. You don't have tolet it sit for too long, with I'd fir I usually rip it on the bandsaw with as much to spare as possible and let it sit for a couple weeks. Don't worry about the ends checking, your going to waste a few inches there anyway.For a quick and simple bench that you don't need a bench to make and is very doable handtool only I highly recommend looking at Ian Kirby's in Landis' The Workbench Book.

[Mike Siemsen]

My friend Dean and I just built an 8 foot long Nicholson bench from Borg lumber. It took us about 9 hours, most of his time was spent taking pictures of the process. The bench probably cost all of $120 including the iron bench screw. It was built completely with hand tools. This is the 5th one I have worked on. I didn't bother to sticker the material at all, just built the bench, after it dries a while I will flatten the top. I used this method on my other bench which is 2 years old and the top is still flat. the legs are removable. These are great benches.
Mike

[john brenton]

You might start building your bench tomorrow, or it could be a year from now. There's always something that gets in the way if you aren't actually building it. The first step for me was deciding the features that I definitely wanted, and going from there. My bench was built before optimum dryness, but its holding up just fine.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Thank you all for the great responses!
I won't bother you with answering all the details, though I read all the answers with much interest and appreciation... All of the benches and designs are inspiring - I'll likely take the ideas from each that best fit my needs. I'll get all the books I can through the library (probably most thanks to interlibrary loan - if a library has it, I'll get it) but I'll order the C. Schwarz book. I'd just been waiting to figure out which of his two to get. Thanks for saving me the grief I'd have had with the design I linked to. I wanted to believe american woodworker knew better and liked the idea of a fully knock down bench puzzled together that way. Also, I had hoped green DF would take a couple months to dry but I've read many references to putting boards up for a few years - had to ask, glad I did.

You've made some inspiring benches. In my case I'm going to build the nicest one I can but not because I really care how it looks, rather I'd rather make mistakes building my bench. I'm going to go with lumber vs. sheet material as much as I can afford to because I just like it more, though a torsion box makes great sense cost- and strength-wise.

Thanks to the various suggestions here I learned of many more local options for lumber than before. Ashby Lumber? Somehow I didn't think of that - probably because I always stare at McBeath's Hardwoods as I drive by. I also found there are many more sources for reclaimed lumber than I expected. A whole barn from Ohio? not sure where I'd put it. Lots of lumber choices, though. I'll have to call around and get a sense of prices still.

Some specific questions first:
I see one of the benches linked to was made with pressure treated lumber. I didn't even consider that because I thought it was unsafe for woodworking type use. I looked around online and found opinions at each extreme: manufacturers say it is super safe except for making salad bowls and pacifiers out of, while others say it is demon wood that eats puppies. I won't be chewing on my workbench or anything, but does that mean it is safe?

Jim - Are you using a pipe clamp based vise? How do you like it?

Andrew and Steve (on your portable bench) - I see both of you have your diagonal braces connect to the cross member on the top and/or outside of the cross member and use fasteners to hold it in place. I would think you'd notch it so that it was on top and on the inside so forces along the diagonal brace would serve to push it into the cross member instead of off and away - using fasteners mostly to keep it where it should be but not for much load. This is not based on experience and I see you both did this, so I figure I'm missing something.

Mike - I'd like whatever details you care to provide. Where did you get the iron screw? It would be great to build something for that cost. I have to keep it under 4 feet long, so perhaps even less. Clearly I can learn from what you did.

OK, I'm leaning towards something along the lines of Andrew and Steve's benches: portable, angled bracing/legs for rigidity. Has to be small to fit, only 4 feet wide or so. The wonder dog bench vise and general low usage of vises from Steve's bench (great writeup!) is a huge help since I have to have the right end of the bench against the wall for now. I'll try using a wedge on the front instead of a face vise like Steves, at least until I can afford a wooden thread cutting set - I loved the wooden vise on my grandad's vise. If I can't use the wedge well I'll go with a pipe clamp-based vise set up. To clarify, I only plan to use the mdf top as shortly as possible, and only because I already have it. It's only 30" square so a real pain. Easy to clean up, surprisingly flat, but I just don't like it. I want wood and holes for bench dogs and hold fasts.

I will not be moving the bench often and want it rigid, but I do want to be able to knock it down and for not so logical reasons like "I wanna do it this way" I'd like to make it using joinery instead of fasteners where possible. What about pinned mortise (I think that is the term) and tennons on the horizontal and/or diagonal stretchers: not wedges going into the end grain of the tenon but a wedge dropping down through another, smaller mortise cut in the tenon where it protrudes out on the far side of the through mortise? What else should I consider for joints I can create, ideally relying on the wood rather than screws etc. for the real work (screws for additional security are fine)? I'm looking for something I can whack and make tighter if I find it getting loose over time and can knock down as needed (quite rarely), and which will challenge me to make. If the legs were not fully integrated into the top can they be approached similarly? Any suggestions? I'm not really opposed to screws where needed.

Thanks for the help!

I won't be starting this for a few weeks - spent what I had on an order from Hock, just got it minutes ago. Wow, what a heavy blade he makes! beautiful.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

One more thing - I am aware this bench is way too short as planned. Only other option is work in a carpeted room. We rent or I'd pull up the carpet. Any thoughts on covering the short shag carpet w/ indoor/outdoor basically no-shag carpet? I could then have all the room needed and not have the shop double as the oft-used guestroom. The carpeted room doesn't work as a bedroom because it is the only route to the bathroom and it isn't nice to tramp through if someone is sleeping there.

[Steve Branam]

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed my writeup! With sturdy bolts through the angled braces and leg crosspieces of the portable bench, the triangles really are quite rigid, certainly able to withstand the forces you'll be putting on it. If you did manage to apply enough force to affect them (say, by resting a car on the bench), the wooden members would probably fail first anyway, most likely collapsing at the center of the crosspiece.

For your carpeted workspace, you could spread a canvas drop cloth on the floor. That makes cleanup easy: just pull up the corners and empty it into a trash can.

[Jim Matthews]

I like the "Pipe Clamp Moxxon" vise. It has really made holding things vertical, simple. Rather than have a bench shape dictated by the vises (note the absence of any traditional vise in the photo), I build clamping mechanisms as they are needed. The best variant on the Moxxon was shown here in the Creek by Derek Cohen (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/MoxonDovetailVise.html) or Perth, FWA.

Derek works on a small bench, and has tremendous output of quality furniture.
He's forgotten more about woodworking than I'm likely to ever know.

His web page offered most of the approaches I followed to build my bench.
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/

The only thing I would say against my Moxxon is that the pipeclamps will slide loose if over tightened.

One last thing to recommend - a pipe clamp based bench that's already built, from Blum (http://www.blumtool.com/pages/benchhorse.html).
This thing is portable, and a torsion box design.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

I had no doubt about the strength or rigidity of the angled braces, rather I was just curious if there was a reason I'd missed to avoid having the wood from the brace against the top and inside of the stretcher, rather than on the top and outside. Unlikely to help with a good bolt to do the work but I thought perhaps there was a reason to avoid doing it that way.

I liked how you showed not only how to make the bench in fair detail but how you use it. All except the woodworking judo move of holding your bench with your leg while planing - I won't try that soon.

Jim - I'd seen Blum's innovative take on planemaking and noted his site as a source for inspiration, like the bench dogs with o-rings, and a place to get forged holdfasts. I'd overlooked the benches since I was filtering out torsion box types and most plywood in general. I also thought the legs looked too small. I now suspect I wasn't fair and should have looked closer - he's done a nice job with those. I don't want to admit it, but I should really price out building a torsion box bench as well. Money is such an issue these days and there are many basic tools I don't have yet. I have enough to build a bench and plan on using my bench as a place to build tools for a while first, one reason I thought I could get away with small at first.

Tomorrow I'll draw up tentative plans and call around for approximate prices.

Thanks again for all your help.

Oh, and I meant keyed mortise and tenons a few posts up, not pinned.

[Jim Matthews]

My last word on this, unless you would like to discuss at further length offline;
smaller may be better. You can always work up a way to support longer pieces at the "quiet" side while you work on the "active" side.

A step ladder and some C clamps can be pressed into service for the task.
Most pieces we're likely to work on will be shorter than 48".

Larger pieces can be marked out and roughed to size outside, if your neighbors are tolerant.
If you do this by hand, they might want to offer instruction as you go...

FYI - If you price out the materials alone, the Blum bench is a bargain.

Drop me a line if you like,
jim
wpt, ma

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Jim, thanks. I keep reading statements about needing a bench big enough for the largest piece I might ever think of dreaming of making but I know myself. It would become a larger space to pile tools on and I'd probably see even less surface area. I'm looking to build the bench even though I can get a few off craigslist for cheap because I need the experience. You have a good point about working outside. I have a small yard and the door is right next to where the bench would go if I go small and uncarpeted, I have great neighbors and I'm in California so I could do occasional work outside year round in a pinch. Derek Cohen's site is a great source of information and inspiration.

The responses here have gotten me to think things through and approach it from a different, more appropriate angle: What do I want from the bench? What can I afford? What can I manage (skill, tool wise). I've also learned a lot about other topics from links provided.

[Andy Margeson]

Green douglas fir is just fine for a workbench base. You can let it dry thoroughly or you can simply build in anticipation that it will shrink as it dries. I did that years ago with green doug fir and it is rock solid years later. Use MDF for a top now and replace it with fir or maple or whatever down the road.

I made mine from #1 and better green doug fir 4 x 4s. I routed a groove the full length for a threaded rod which I could tighten as needed. Works great. Another way to do it is to use bench bolts, like these: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=31147&cat=1,41637 Either approach allows you to cinch them up as the wood dries or with seasonal movement.

In Chris Schwarz's first book, he describes a Nicholson bench which he built with dimensional lumber from the home center. Another great example is described in a podcast on Bob Rozaieski's website called Logan Cabinet Shoppe. His is built with all hand tools.

Go for it.

[Andrae Covington]

What about pinned mortise (I think that is the term) and tennons on the horizontal and/or diagonal stretchers: not wedges going into the end grain of the tenon but a wedge dropping down through another, smaller mortise cut in the tenon where it protrudes out on the far side of the through mortise? What else should I consider for joints I can create, ideally relying on the wood rather than screws etc. for the real work (screws for additional security are fine)? I'm looking for something I can whack and make tighter if I find it getting loose over time and can knock down as needed (quite rarely), and which will challenge me to make. If the legs were not fully integrated into the top can they be approached similarly? Any suggestions? I'm not really opposed to screws where needed.

I used keyed tenons on the long stretchers of my workbench. Although I live in a house rather than an apartment, I don't expect to be here forever, and a fully glued-together workbench would never make it up the narrow basement stairs. Some short time after the bench was complete, I once had to go around and whack all the keys as the wood had adjusted. After that, it has been rock solid.

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I did not glue the entire top together, but instead made four sections of glued-together 2x4's. I first tried to use a wedging system to hold this in place on the legs, which were not permanently attached to the top. It did not work out so well. A little movement back and forth in the legs and stretchers is not a big deal. But the top buckling and twisting even 1/16" after you put all the time and effort into flattening is pretty frustrating.

After trying various options, I finally bought some long (~6") 1/4" lag screws and tied the top sections together, and some shorter ones to attach to the leg assemblies. It works but if I were to build another bench I would just go ahead and glue the entire top together, and do the traditional mortise and tenon connections to the legs. I think they would not need to be glued, the weight of the top will hold it down.

Like others, I encourage you to take a look at your local options for reclaimed wood. However, I have to tell you that my experience was that the reclaimed wood (old-growth douglas-fir in my case) was quite a bit more expensive than construction lumber from the big box stores. It was cheaper than hardwoods, though.

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[Fitzhugh Freeman]

I made mine from #1 and better green doug fir 4 x 4s. I routed a groove the full length for a threaded rod which I could tighten as needed. Works great. Another way to do it is to use bench bolts, like these: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=31147&cat=1,41637 Either approach allows you to cinch them up as the wood dries or with seasonal movement.


I can't picture what you mean regarding the threaded rod. Does it go across the width of the bench so you can pull the boards tighter, or along the length of the bench? Thanks.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Andrae, yeah, that is exactly what I was trying to refer to. Thanks. The ability to both take down and tighten was what I hoped to get out of keyed tenons - that and practice. Thanks.
The other joint I was considering is called a half-dovetailed mortise, I think. The mortise looks like a dovetail tail from the side, only the top half is flat and a wedge is driven in on top and parallel to the tenon. My ignorant gut sense tells me this will not pull as tight as easily as the other way, so I think I'd only use that instead if I don't want the tenon sticking out, say the tenon on a in the front (though I've seen these protrude as well).

[David Keller NC]

Fitzhugh -

One of the easiest ways to make a "take-apart" base is Veritas Bench bolts:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=31147&cat=1,41637

I've made a couple of benches with these so far. The only tools required are a drill bit and wrench, and the joint that's needed is considerably simpler than tusk tenons. Presuming that you can cut square and co-planar tenon shoulders, these bolts make a very, very strong base that's not as susceptible to wood movement.

My current bench has a hybrid system between totally take-apart and totally draw-bored: The two support trestles are draw-bored M&T construction in an "H" configuration with the top of the "H" closed off with a rail that's dovetailed into the two legs. These two "H"s are connected to a solid benchtop with lag bolts, and the stretchers that connect the two Hs and make everything lock together are Veritas bench bolts.

If you decide to go this route, I'd highly recommend you download and read the chapter on portable benches in Chris Schwarz's book. He has an ingenious little jig in this chapter for aligning the bench bolt nut and threaded bolt. It takes very little time to build this jig, and it saves a lot of frustration in marking out and drilling, and ensures that you can drill the tightest hole possible for the nut.

[Andrae Covington]

Andrae, yeah, that is exactly what I was trying to refer to. Thanks. The ability to both take down and tighten was what I hoped to get out of keyed tenons - that and practice. Thanks.

The most difficult part of the keyed mortise and tenon (sometimes called tusk tenons) is making the mortise in the tenon with one side sloped. I sawed a scrap of wood to the angle I wanted, and clamped it onto the tenon as a guide for my mortise chisel. If you decide to go this route, I recommend chopping the mortises first, then making the keys to fit. The first keys I made were too short; they stuck out much further below the tenon than above, which just looked weird. They are fun to whack-a-mole.:p



The other joint I was considering is called a half-dovetailed mortise, I think. The mortise looks like a dovetail tail from the side, only the top half is flat and a wedge is driven in on top and parallel to the tenon. My ignorant gut sense tells me this will not pull as tight as easily as the other way, so I think I'd only use that instead if I don't want the tenon sticking out, say the tenon on a in the front (though I've seen these protrude as well).

Had to think a bit about what you were describing here, but it must be this dovetailed and wedged tenon:
http://sawdustmaking.com/woodjoints/images/f157.jpgsource (http://sawdustmaking.com/woodjoints/mortisetenon.htm)

I also don't believe this would be as strong. It is relying mostly on the horizontal slip friction between the top of the tenon and the bottom of the horizontal wedge. (By the way I think the illustration is not drawn quite right: seems like the top of the mortise should also be angled, to better fit the angled top side of the wedge.) In the keyed mortise and tenon, the vertical wedge key is pushing against the leg on the opposite side from where forces might try to pull the tenon back out.

[Trevor Walsh]

I got two pair of the Veritas knockdown bolts, one set is in an oak bed I'm almost done building, the other is destined for a workbench. I'm very happy with the fasteners so far.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

David Keller, didn't realize that chapter was availabe, thanks! I have a copy on the way but I'll read that tonight. I only pictured using the Veritas bolts with butt joints, obvious as blind mortise tenons should have been. Only real reason to go with a the keyed mortise and tenon is that it will take time and effort, which means I have plenty of chances to make mistakes to learn from (or something like that). It may sound silly, and understand I don't have any great expectations of how my bench will turn out, but I like the idea of having to really work making the joints. I enjoy it, and really really need the practice, preferably on something like a workbench where ugly matters less. I don't think it is beyond me but I'll practice first and see.

Andrae, that is exactly the joint I was thinking of. I googled but didn't find any pictures. I was thinking of using it on the front-to-back stretchers so the leg would be flush in front but David made a good point - no need to have the whole thing knocked down. Not sure about drawbores, though. I read Schwarz's post about reviving the approach a while ago but so far I've not found anything to use for drawbore pins large enough for a bench that I can afford. All seem to be $60 to $100 and up for a pair. If smaller I could use a nail set, but I'd want a larger dowel for a bench, like 1/2 inch? Just a guess. Instead I'm thinking a wedged tenon (wedges going into the end grain of the tenon) for the permanent joints in front-to-back stretchers.

This is great help. I'll draw something up and see how it looks. Simple, but I want it to accomodate a leg vise in the future. I'll post my questions about those seperately - probably find all my questions already answered somewhere here.

[Fitzhugh Freeman]

Quick additional question: shearing vs. racking forces?
Quoting Schwarz: "I think it’s quite possible to really overdue it when it comes to attaching the top to the base. Most people focus on controlling racking forces when they attach the top. In a well-designed bench, you really should be more concerned about shear forces instead – and those are much easier to manage."

Shear strain would be that which forced the rectangle into a parallelogram - say so the legs are all angled to the right but the top is horizontal. Racking is taking the top and twisting, like pushing horizontally towards the back on the right front corner while pulling horizontally forward on the left front corner. Is that correct? Shear is handled best by diagonals (including the walls of torsion boxes), while racking is best handled by, um, diagonals (strange incantations help). Right? Not saying diagonal bracing is necessary on everything, I'm just want to make sure I grasp the structural considerations.

What forces are really significant and need considering? I think of the bench needing to not collapse under use (or own weight!), not distort beyond my ability to plane back to flat over time, and not flex and wiggle around as lateral forces are generated while planing and handle things like chiseling a mortise on something on the bench.
I bet all with be answered when my book arrives, but I had to ask. Feel free to respond w/ rtfm.

I do understand racking in a vise (I think I do, anyhow - happens when a clamped item is a ways off-center in the vise so mechanism has to resist twisting).