Flea Market Finds: Socket Mortise Chisel

[Joe Fabbri]

Hey guys,

I picked up a few old chisels and two fillister planes at a flea market a few weeks back. I'm going to post some pictures of everything when I get a chance, but one of the first items I wanted to ask about is a heavy duty socket mortise chisel. Reading an article by Bob Smalser, I think it is what's called a "factory" or "millwright" mortise chisel. I originally thought it was a timber framing chisel, but I guess at 1/2" it's a bit too small for that.

It has a steel hoop at the end, and the wood might be oak (maybe hickory, I don't really know). Anyway, the handle is loose in it. I turned it once and it tightened, but then it got loose again. I decided to pull the handle out and look at the socket. What I found was the socket has a lip on the inside of it, so that it grabs the wooden handle, and made it hard to remove actually. It looks to be factory, maybe something to keep the handle from falling out, once pressed on. Is this normal, though? Perhaps it's simply a bit of mushrooming, that just happens to be even looking.

Another question I have is, if the handle is loose in the socket, is there anyway to get it to fit in again? It doesn't seem that sanding it would help. What about swelling it with some oil on it?

Also, the steel has a slight forward arc in it, I guess in the direction that it prys the wood out. Is this to be expected from an old mortise chisel. Does it effect the performance of it?

(I have some pictures, but I'm not sure how to post them, since they're not internet links. If anyone could let me know how to do this, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.)

Joe

[David Weaver]

Just put paper or a plane shaving around the tenon on the end of the chisel to wedge the handle in tight to the chisel socket. It will probably take less than you think unless the handle is a replacement and totally inappropriate for the socket.

The belly in the edge could be the result of being bent, but could also (more likely depending on how much it is?) be an intentional shape to allow some relief under the back of the chisel in a straight up and down cut.

I have a chisel very similar to that, probably, except i had no handle (same size, though). I've never been very excited about its edgeholding (it's not laminated) and can't think of a good reason to use millwork chisels in building furniture. The same article you're referring to drove me to get some of the large socket chisels like that type a while ago. Other than hogging, like cutting out a dai, I don't use them - the offerings originally made for cabinetmaking work (pigstickers, etc) feel nicer to me.

[Mike Henderson]

If you want to make sure the handle won't come out, use some epoxy and then tap the handle in. If you ever want to replace the handle, you'll have to drill the wood out of the socket. David's approach is more traditional.

I agree with David about the use of those chisels, however. I have one or two and never use them. I thought I'd use them for mortises but mostly, I drill out my mortises, then clean them up with a chisel.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

Here is an answer to your question about posting pictures:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167711-posting-photos-as-of-June-2011

I do not think much has changed since then.

I have always carefully removed the lip around the inside of the socket you mention.

One reason I like socket chisels is the ease of making a replacement handle.

My chisels have not had problems of handle/socket separation when they are fitted carefully. I do not have any modern chisels of this style. I understand some of the newer socket chisels have the inside of the socket finished very smooth. These tend to not hold the handle in as well and may require glue or some will use hair spray.

When fitting the handle, I will blacken the inside of the socket with either a candle flame or some graphite from my pencil sharpener. Then when the handle is inserted and turned, the high spots will be marked for removal.

Some sockets will have enough dirt and rust that using something to darken the inside is not needed.

jtk

[george wilson]

Some old chisels have a convex bottom side on them. Not unusual. This topic just came up a few months ago.

[Jim Neeley]

I've heard too of spraying the handle tip with hairspray (shellac) and inserting it wet, if you want *some* holding but not irremoveable. I haven't tried it.

[Joe Fabbri]

210450210451

Thanks for the help, Jim.

Here's the chisel. The handle looks like it is original, and with that inside lip it doesn't seem that someone would have replaced it. Though, I have to say, the tenon does seem a little short for the socket.

Maybe I'll post another picture of the chisel socket itself.

[Joe Fabbri]

Yeah, I thought that slight bow in the blade might have been for a reason also. I saw a few pictures online, and from what I could tell, there seemed to be a similar convex shape to the chisel.

Jim, so that lip is normal to find in some socket chisels? Seems that would make it difficult to wrap shavings around and reinsert, without grinding it down. Has anyone else dealt with this lip in the socket?

David, I actually didn't buy this chisel, my father did (along with some others tools) at a flea market/car show he went to (in Hershey, PA). He called me up when he came across a whole table of chisels. He said the guy had a mortise chisel for $5, and I thought that was a decent price. I can see how these millwrights wouldn't be really useful for furniture projects, but I'm thinking it might come in handy when I make my bench one of these days.

The name is hard to make out, but it's "xxxhill and Co." Does anybody know who the maker might be?

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, so that lip is normal to find in some socket chisels?

I do not know if some were made that way. I do see it a lot in socket chisels and usually associate it with someone striking the socket with a hammer after the wooden handle broke.

I have one heavy chisel that has almost the whole socket mushroomed over.

jtk

[Joe Fabbri]

Jim, the socket itself doesn't appear to be too bashed up, and the lip inside seems very uniform. But maybe I'm being deceived. I can take some pictures of it to see. Either way, I'm not sure how a new handle or even shavings could be wrapped around the old handle and reinserted without the lip going.

How does that arc in the chisel back look, guys? Is that the way they were made? Or is it bent?

Joe

[David Weaver]

Probably Underhill brand

I know I have or have had some chisels of that brand (all big and heavy), they are good quality. At $5, it doesn't hurt to have it around, even if you don't use it much.

[Joe Fabbri]

David, does the handle in the picture look original do you think? Also, on the Underhill's you have or had, did you notice any of the arcing in the blade? What about the lip inside the socket (if you had to replace any handles)?

Joe

[David Weaver]

Both underhills and all of the PS&W framers/heavy chisels I've come across were without handles, so I had to make them.

I'm not sure if that handle looks original or not, but if it isn't, it's better than a lot that I've seen - it's got a hoop and it's clean and unbroken. If I had to suspect anything wasn't original (it's hard to tell from the picture), I'd guess the hoop. I'd probably wrap the tenon with something long before I'd make another one, and not worry about the lip in the socket unless it was in the way.

I don't have one of the underhills that I'd gotten (I still have another one), but I recall the socket wasn't that regularly shaped on it, and the same goes for the one I have now, it's kind of rough inside the socket. I don't remember checking to see whether or not the socket had a lip from being hit or if it looked like it had a lip from the factory, I always grind off the lip when I get a socket chisel.

The backs of all of my heavier and bigger chisels have a bit of belly/relief. I think they'd otherwise be hard to use in a deep cut where they were pulling into the cut. Your chisel looks undamaged to me, with a very gradual intentionally manufactured relief, but that's just my opinion.

[Joe Fabbri]

Yeah, the handle looks like it fits the length and size of the chisel pretty well. The hoop, like you said, might have been replaced (don't know the reason why someone would do that though) or added--though these should have a hooop originally, right? I mean, all the heavy duty mortise chisels have a hoop, or do some not have them? The hoop extends all the way to the end, not set in at all, so I'd think it would mess up a mallet pretty good when you hit it. So, maybe it's been added. I'll try to get another picture of it.


As far as the lip, I'd say it is in the way. At first, I couldn't even remove the loose handle, the lip would grab it that much. And to put the handle back in I have to twist it a bit (like a screw almost). So, I'll probably have to smooth it down a bit.

Also, the socket inside does seem a bit rough, you can clearly see the overlap of where the socket was welded on. Maybe that's the reason they folded a lip down, to ensure the wood wouldn't fall out too often.

[Paul Incognito]

Joe,
I have 5 of this type of chisel from 1/8" to 1/2" from different makers and they're all over the place as far as straightness goes. A couple are fairly straight, one is pretty concave and 2 are really convex. It doesn't seem to make a difference in use, as long as they're sharp. The ones I could get the handle off of had a lip, but on the three I checked it seemed that the lip was from someone using it without a handle. The handle on yours is quite similar to the handles on my bigger chisels.
BTW, with a sharp edge, these things really go through some wood. I was chopping through mortises in 2-1/2" thick oak without breaking a sweat. Sharpen it up and use it!
Hope this helps,
Paul

[David Weaver]

All that I've seen with original handles have hoops of various flavors, often long like that one instead of dainty like some of the bench chisels have.

Most of them I've seen look pretty beat up and the top of the hoop is even with the end of the chisel handle (and mushroomed a bit).

That's a pretty nice looking chisel for $5 regardless.

[Paul Incognito]

Yea David, all of mine except the 1/8 have pretty long hoops. The handle on the 1/8 looks like a replacement.
Paul

[Joe Fabbri]

Yeah, it's a pretty nice looking chisel overall. It has a few spots of pitting, but not really bad at all. The chisel has a nice weight to it, so I'm anxious to try it out. I think it will come in handy when building my bench.

Paul, did you grind down those lips or just leave them?

On tightening the handle, aside from wrapping a few shavings around the tenon, would coating it with an oil (linseed or whatever) work also? I thought I remember reading something about that. It seems on an old dry handle, it might be good to do, in addition even to the shavings.

Joe

[David Weaver]

You could try the oil, but I think it will do less than you expect. You never know, though. You can always let it (the whole handle) soak in oil and then throw it in with shavings / dust and then wax it. It will at least feel nice to use for a while.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Joe, I can almost guarantee that is an Underhill chisel like David said. I have a 1/2" chisel just like it. The handle is oak and the hoop is exactly the same as on yours.

Underhill started here in Chester NH where I live and the site of the original forge is about 4 miles from my house. They existed in various forms from the 1820s through the 1890 when the Underhill name disappeared after they were bought by the American Axe and Tool Company. Eight members of 3 generations of the family were involved in the business under an assortment of names: Underhill & Brown, Underhill & Leighton, Underhill Edge Tool Co., and the Amoskeag
Axe Company. They are most commonly listed in the early years as being in Auburn NH, but Auburn was part of Chester until almost 1900. For full details of the Underhill companies see: Instruments of Change NH Hand Tools and their Makers 1800-1900 published by the NH Historical Society ISBN 0-914659-16-2.

[Joe Fabbri]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the historical insight, I appreciate it. It must be nice to own a few old tools made in your own town.

It's good to know that the hoop and handle are original. Was your handle by any chance loose when you aquired it? If so, did you happen to notice if Underhill purposely made a lip on the inside of their socket, or if it's just something that developed on mine from use? If it's something original, I don't want to grind it off.

Joe

[Dave Anderson NH]

I just pulled the handle off mine and it was a fight. It is nice and tight. There is no real lip Joe but there is a vestigal one which appears to be a result of the forging. The line of the forge welding is also clearly visible running from the top to the bottom of the socket on the inside. No sign of the seam is visible on the outside though there are some peening marks where it appears the handle was installed and then the metal was peened around the top of the socket to insure a tight fit. The width of the chisel at the tip of the bevel is 1/2" and it tapers down to 7/16" just before the flare for the socket.

[Paul Incognito]

Paul, did you grind down those lips or just leave them? Joe

Joe,
I never noticed the lip until I pulled the handles off to check. Now that I know the lip is there it still doesn't matter much to me.
Paul

[Joe Fabbri]

Even though the tenon was wobbly inside, I had a hard time getting mine off with that lip. So, Dave, if your handle was tight, that little lip probably made it especially hard to get off. On mine, the lip actually seems fairly wide all the way around. It's probably, though, just the result of the forging, like you say, not something particularly intentional.

The width of my chisel is the same, it also tapers back towards the socket.

Just curious, how long about is the tenon on your handle? Mine is about 1 1/4". It seems kind of short for the length of the socket itself. But then again, I'm not really familiar with socket chisels.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Joe, the tenon is 2.25" long and is tapered the full length.

[Joe Fabbri]

That's strange. I mean, I figured mine seemed short. If it looks like the one you have, though, I wonder what's the matter. Maybe they switched handles with a smaller Underhill mortise chisel? Do the smaller sizes have shorter tenons/sockets?

I'll have to get a picture up of the tenon on mine.

Joe