_ Bowl "coring" tools/system ?

[Joe Watson]

Ive seen a bowl coring system (McNaughton) and was wondering if it (or any other brand) really works ?
Any brand that you recommend (i have a 12" swing on the lathe) ?

Are you limited to the depth of the bowl core you remove (you can not control it) ?
eg: removing a core that is 4" dia, then the depth would be 3" (or what ever). That depth has a standard relationship to the dia ?
Can you bend the "cutters" to create different depths ?

Right now i dont have access to alot of "log wood"/bowl blanks. So what i do get just kills me with all the "waste" when removing the inside. So i started to look into the coring system. I figured even if i was to make a shallow 8-9" bowl, i could use one of the coring system to remove a smaller 4-5" portion (being the main bowl will be shallow) and use that for something else.

Thanks for any help.


-

[Harry Robinette]

Joe
I use the McNaughton system and love it. Everyone says to use the kind they have I say get the one thats going to do what you want it to do. McN system has different size blade packages which makes it much easier to update if you update your lathe. This system is a LITTLE harder to get use to, but it's not as hard as some people say. If you get the McNaughton system you'll want to get Robo Hippys DVD it helped me allot.

[Steve Kubien]

First thing...don't start going around bending the coring blades. You are asking for trouble here.
Secondly, they all work. I have had the McN, hated it, returned it, though considering trying again now that I am older and supposedly wiser. I had the Woodcut and loved it except for the maximum size core your could take (wouldn't be a problem for you). Currently use the Oneway rig and unless you sharpen the cutter after each core, it is becoming a pain to use (thus I am considering the McN again, of the new, larger Woodcut once it is available).

Ummm, I blogged about all of this a few months back. The link to the blog is in my profile if you are interested.

[Richard Allen]

There are three shaped cores you can make.

A curved shape. That curve can have a small or large radius but the curve needs to be part of a circle. These coring systems tend to need a LOT of power. You can sharpen and work slowly with a lower powered lathe but you may find the process tedious. You can easily stall a 1 HP lathe with one of these coring systems.

A straight cone core. This is basically a parting tool. Note the cutter needs to open a kerf which permits the blade holding the cutter to follow the cutter (just like parting off a spindle you will likely need to widen the kerf as you go).

Straight sides and flat bottom. These are primarily small cores. You start off by making a plunge cut straight in (parallel with the bed of the lathe) then use a device called a bowl saw which is used to cut the core out perpendicular to the bed of the lathe.

[Reed Gray]

I prefer the McNaughton, and it is the only system to have blades made specifically for the mini lathes. There is a bit of a learning curve with it. The Woodcut is also a nice little system, and the big blade is a 5 inch radius.

As for horse power requirements, they all cut like scrapers, and the tips are all (except micro McNaughton) about 3/8 inches wide. If you can take a 1/2 inch scraper and make cuts with it, you shouldn't have any problems. I wouldn't want less than 1 hp though.

robo hippy

[Gary Max]

Personally--save your money. Been there and not a fan of coring systems.

[Russell Neyman]

There must be a coring/saver system that doubles as a hollow form system, too. Maybe not the cutting head, but at least the guided tool part of it. Anybody?

[Josh Bowman]

Joe your picture(avatar) freaks me out every time I see it!!! :eek:
Anyway, I have the McNaughton system and really like it. Reed Gray has a great DVD that works you through the hard stuff. I also have Mike Mahoney's DVD and like it as well. Mike's DVD makes it look deceptively easy, while Reed Gray's is more realistic. Both are good though and worth having. If your going to buy just one, get Reeds.
I'm a novice with the thing, but manage to get some very nice cores. There is a skill set here, since 1)the tools tend to pull themselves into the core and 2)they tend to go toward the chuck. The hard part is mastering the gentle guide of the tool and determining where the tip is, as I did not in one of my first corings, see 2nd picture.:rolleyes:

[Russell Neyman]

I've only seen the results of this system and have not used or personally seen the process in action. It's my understanding that it takes a light touch and plenty of patience. It seems to me that this is best used with some very special burls or hardwoods where saving the material has a greater value than time invested.

So, looking at Josh's two photos of nested blanks: It seems to me the process would be to (a) cut a core, taking the time to finish the inside and lip of the round bowl before moving forward, (b) cutting the next core, essentially roughing the bottom of the semi-finished first bowl and the inside of the next one, then (c) repeating the process until you've used the entire blank. At that point you've got to re-mount all of the cores in soft jaws so that you can finish the outsides and bottoms. Is there another way to do this?

My friend, Dave Schweitzer (D-Way Tools) displays nested natural edge bowls he produces using a coring system, and it seems to me he must either use a vacuum chuck -- something that I simply don't trust nor do I want to try it -- or hand sand the outsides to achieve the result. He might also be simply creating the "natural barked edge" with a Dremel and torch. He does really creative work, and is quite innovative in how he gets finished results. I've posted a photo of his work here. I should add that I'm encouraging him to add a gallery of his work here. To my way of thinking, Dave is one of the top woodturners in the United States.

I love the idea of a wood-saver/coring system, but wonder if it's worth the bother.
210421

[Josh Bowman]

So, looking at Josh's two photos of nested blanks: It seems to me the process would be to (a) cut a core, taking the time to finish the inside and lip of the round bowl before moving forward, (b) cutting the next core, essentially roughing the bottom of the semi-finished first bowl and the inside of the next one, then (c) repeating the process until you've used the entire blank. At that point you've got to re-mount all of the cores in soft jaws so that you can finish the outsides and bottoms. Is there another way to do this?

The process I use is to shape the outside of the largest bowl, then core the smallest, I then reverse it in the recess it came from as a jam chuck and cut a tenon, then I cut the next core and reverse it and cut the tenon, etc until I run out of room against the outside core.
Reed has a better way, where you core the largest, then rechuck that core using a recessed tenon he's cut in the blanks top at the beginning and cuts another recessed tenon on the bottom of that core and reverses it again, until he's down to the smallest bowl. Either way it takes about 2 or 3 minutes to cut the core and a minute to do the tenon. My McNaughton does a better job of shaping the outside of a bowl than I do, when the core is cut, the rough bowl is ready for drying, no recutting is needed.
Time is not the real issue, the real issue is $$$$. These things are expensive! And even though I got mine at a good price, I could have bought a lot of wood for the expense. One side benefit is it cuts way down on the mess.....on the other hand.....brooms are cheap.

[Richard Jones]

.....Reed Gray has a great DVD that works you through the hard stuff. I also have Mike Mahoney's DVD and like it as well. Mike's DVD makes it look deceptively easy, while Reed Gray's is more realistic. Both are good though and worth having. If your going to buy just one, get Reeds.....

Ditto to that.

Like anything else, practice makes you better. I am really enjoying my McN, and I use my Monster laser with it. I am currently working on a system whereby the tool post is lined to a specific point, depending on bowl dia. and depth. Anyone else doing something like this?

Rich

[Reed Gray]

If you are turning green wood to final thickness, I prefer taking the biggest core first. If you are doing twice turned bowls, the way Mike does, then it makes some sense to take the smaller ones out first. Either way works.

robo hippy

[Alan Zenreich]

So far I've had very good results with a Woodcut Bowl Saver... I've used it on my 16" machine and it would work very well on a 12" lathe

[Steve Kubien]

Alan, you know, I'm still kinda regretting selling you the Woodcut. I like the capacity of the Oneway but prefer to use the Woodcut. They cannot introduce the larger version fast enough to suit me.

[Scott Hackler]

I bought a used McNaughton system and got a hold of Reed Gray and bought his DVD regarding the McNaughton. His video helped a bit. I liked seeing someone do it before I jumped right in. I cored two sets of Cedar bowls and it went without a hitch. The third set was being cored out of green elm and I finally found something that would STOP my lathe! I bound up one of the knives and it not only stopped the lathe but bent the knife! I was able to bend it back in a vise though. This system I bought is an early version and doe NOT have the fancy looking Mark 8 rest.

Each of these systems will work to core bowls, but the key is knowing HOW to use them.

[Reed Gray]

My favorite tool rest to use is the original one I got that had 2 gates. This old system had the old blades which had the cutter off to one side of the blade rather than centered on the blade like the newer ones. I considered that to be a huge advantage. I do like the Mark 8, and the square tube for the blades to fit into better than the old T type set up. Just too many gates on one tool rest for me. The blades are designed to have some flex in them so they will bend but not break.

robo hippy

[Joe Watson]

Thanks so much for all of your comments and experiences (keep them coming if you forgot something).


Joe your picture(avatar) freaks me out every time I see it!!! :eek:
Sorry :)
Its an old idea i have in my head - all 'out-out' and no 'input', so many people are telling "this and that" but no one is sitting around and observing... anyway - thats another thread, another time :)


... the real issue is $$$$...Yea... thats the reason i started this thread. Like anything else, when you read about it in a magazine or web site, its the best thing in the world - but after talking to people that have used the product (what ever it is), you get a whole different story.

Less wood chips/mess would be cool, less time spend cutting would be cool too (i guess), but not wasting and being able to make a couple things from one chunk of would would be really nice. Its not something which i will be buying in the next day or so, but it is definitively on the "want list".

Thanks again, all.

_

[Darryl Hansen]

If you use the McN an easy depth gauge is a piece of 14 flat aluminum. remember the tip of the cutter is dierctly in line with the center of the handle. (unless you have bent the cutter). Bend the aluminum 90 degrees. Cut one leg so it is the length of the cutter from the handle to the tip the other leg is a bit longer than the radius of your lathe swing. Then hold the gauge flat against the front of the handle. the tip of the measuere will be over the bowl where the cutter tip is. Never gone through the bottom since I started using this method.

[Hilel Salomon]

Hi,
I've got two sets of each (Mc and Oneway). The Oneway is somewhat easier to use, but as soon as I finish this, I'm going to get in touch with Reed to buy his DVD. I like the versatility of Mc shapes, so.... As for coring itself, it saves a ton of wood and cored sets make truly wonderful gifts. Less chips, more bowls makes a lot of sense to me. Now, having said that, I wonder if using a 12 inch lathe, you want a coring set. I would ask about the torque, and about the usual size bowls you make. I won't usually core bowl blanks that are less than 10 inches in diameter.
Good luck,
Hilel

[Steve Kubien]

Darryl, this is a simple yet utterly brilliant idea! Thanks.

[Alan Zenreich]

Steve,

We buyers enjoy hearing about "seller's regret"

You are welcome to come visit it any time you like <vbg>

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Thanks so much for all of your comments and experiences (keep them coming if you forgot something).

Joe,

I have an odd combination for this. I have Mustard Monster Lathe and the woodcut bowl saver coring system.

It fits just fine and it works. I bought it because I had a really cool piece of wood and I hated to just waste away the middle of it. Plus I got it from CSUSA and they had a monster sale going on. I saved a ton on it when I bought it. I got it, I got it all setup and found that it had been mismanufactured. CSUSA was as good as can be on customer service and fixed it all right up for me.

I have since then cored a great many bowls. Walnut, ash, Box Elder, etc... I like that I can make nested sets out of the wood. I have one I need to take some pictures of that is just amazing. Spalted, curly figured grain, red color, etc... Was sure nice to get a set out of them. The outer bowl is only 11 1/2" in diameter so not a large bowl but the wood was too good to pass up. The smallest core is pretty tiny as bowls go but will make a great salt dish or jewelry bowl or ???

I don't find that coring take an inordinate amount of time. It does take some setup time but then you just start cutting and away you go.

One thing I have learned for myself? I want a bigger rig. I don't dislike what I have in any way, so +1 on me impatiently awaiting the larger blade for the WoodCut. I have thought about getting a McN or a Oneway. Honestly I think I want the Oneway as it more closely matches what I am using now. But I decided to wait and see what WoodCut comes up with. I don't know if it will be a whole new setup or if it will somehow retrofit onto what I have.

I have cored thing much larger than the 12" core you can take with the WoodCut. It just makes that outter bowl rough out much thicker than is needed. I don't have too many blanks 16" or larger but I have some and I am kind of saving them until I can find a way to core them out.

I was surprised when I read here in this thread that someone didn't like coring. While I don't love the act of coring. I have enjoyed making sets and the gifts have been very well received.

You mileage may vary, just my thoughts...

Good Luck which ever way you decide to go.

Joshua

[Reed Gray]

I very much doubt that a Woodcut with a bigger blade would be a retrofit. The system does tend to chatter a bit, and I figure it is the plate that it is mounted on. McNaughton gets over most of the chatter with a long handle mostly, and some what with the top support bar that it fits under. The Oneway gets away with it with the support finger under the coring blade. The Woodcut is hooked up to the tailstock, which does help a little, but, personally, I think it needs to be beefed up a lot to take the extra stress of a larger blade. All of the torque would be on the post attachment, and the tailstock set up, with the plate only absorbing a little vibration.

The Oneway is easier to use, but with the McNaughton, I can core in about half the time. Never have to stop the lathe to adjust the support finger. However, the Oneway is rock solid in the biggest bowl you will core with it.

The biggest difference in how versatile the McNaughton is to the other systems, is the flatter blade. You can core vessels, or plate/platter forms.

robo hippy

[Steve Kubien]

Ha! I am truly glad you are getting some use out of the Woodcut, the coring rig that gets the most grief during reviews, but that I like the best. As I mentioned before, I am tempted to try the McN again...

[John King]

Joe - Everyone likes what they have - Oneway, McNaughton, Woodcut, etc. That's why they bought it. They thought it was the best bowl coring system for their needs. I have a Oneway. I like it. Essentially no learning curve. Easy setup and use. Meets all my needs.
I suggest you find some folks in your area that have the various coring systems. Have them get in touch with you next time they are going to do some coring. Visit their garage/shop/studio and check out the system they use. - John

[Ralph Lindberg]

There must be a coring/saver system that doubles as a hollow form system, too. Maybe not the cutting head, but at least the guided tool part of it. Anybody?

Russell, only the handle... At least that I know of.

I'm no coring expert, but I can use the McNaughton and core a bowl faster then I can turn it into chips. Then I have a core I can try to turn into something, or toss into the fire-wood bucket

[Ryan Baker]

There must be a coring/saver system that doubles as a hollow form system, too. Maybe not the cutting head, but at least the guided tool part of it. Anybody?

Russell, I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for in a hollow form system, but the McNaughton tool post (Mark 8) comes with a tool gate that is meant to assist in holding a hollowing or undercut tool. I wouldn't exactly call that a hollowing rig -- certainly not in the sense of the captured rigs -- but they advertise it as a "feature". That's about as close as you will get to a hollowing rig from a coring setup.

[steve johnson]

Hi Reed, where can I buy your dvd on coring?
thanks

[Larry Pickering]

Joe, I brought the McNaughton, made my share of funnels, thought I needed the laser, I'm still shaking my head at the way that thing was engineered, still made funnels, got mad, brought the Woodcut system, really liked the ease of set up and how clean the bowls came out, not real happy about the size of the largest core. Modified the laser, got rid of the pointer(using a bulb and battery pack, similar to the one on my Monster) Now I'm using the McNaughton to cut the larger cores and the Woodcut for 10" and smaller cores. if had a 12" swing, I would go for the Woodcut.

I think I might have commitment issues

[Jim Burr]

Having followed this for a while, it begs a few questions. I have a Jet 1642...will the Woodcut handle 15" blanks? Is the Oneway equal to the McN and Woodcut? I'm not headed in the McN direction due to the high cost of failure.

[Reed Gray]

The 'big' blade on the Woodcut is a 5 inch radius, so at most you can totally cut out a 10 inch diameter core, or if you break out core, you may be able to get an 11 or 12 inch core, but 12 inches is stretching it. They told me last fall that they were working on making a larger blade for the system. The Oneway is more expensive than the McNaughton, but is pretty predictable.

Come to the AAW Symposium. I will be in the vendor area, and can show you a bunch of things. Oneway will be there, and I believer Woodcut is there also, and maybe they will have the new bigger blade. You don't have to pay to go through the vendor area, well, not other than parking. Seeing the McNaughton in person is better than a DVD, and you can ask questions.

On the McNaughton laser, I modified mine. In the Craft Supplies catalog, it is shown up set up wrong. The bracket mounts off to the side so the vertical post can be raised or lowered according to how big of a core you are cutting. If you mount it as shown, it will hit at an angle, and not give an accurate point. It does use the same set screws to mount onto the handle that are used to mount the blade. I had mine welded directly to the handle, and made sure the post is vertical to the blade and cutter. More than anything, it gives an indication of where you are, and I prefer to err on the cautious side, as in a bit thicker.

robo hippy