beautiful #4

[Ralph Boumenot]

Hi,

I recently got a beautiful #4 type 9 stanley plane. I got it all cleaned up and I have two problems with it. The first one is the plane iron which is toast. It's pitted badly and de-laminating, so I'm getting a hock to replace it. That fix was easy.

The second problem is the threaded rod for the tote. Someone not only cross threaded it into the plane heel connection, they also bent it. The rod is an easy fix but the cross threaded hole is beyond my capabilities. This plane is just too nice to turn into a paper weight.

Does anyone know of someone who can repair this faux pas?

thanx
ralph

[Howard Pollack]

Can you run a bottoming tap into the hole? The machinists amongst us will know how to fix this...-Howard

[john brenton]

I was looking for a used tap and die set, but for some reason couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. I finally cracked and bought a small Irwin $25 tap and die set from the borg, and it's the best buy I made all year.

[Ralph Boumenot]

Hi Howard,
the only tap I have is a 1/4-20. I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about doing this. I rather have it done by someone who knows what they are doing.
thanx
ralph

[Bill White]

The Stanleys use(ed) a goofy thread sizes. Mostly were "whitworth" threads. Highland Woodworking offers a replacement kit with screws, tote and rod bolts/caps.
Just make sure that the tapping is of the correct type.
Bill

[Greg Wease]

The tap you need is #12-20, not found in any kit I know of. I understand St. James has #12-2- taps and dies. I bought mine from Victor Machinery on a recommendation from Jim Koepke.

http://victornet.com/

Lee Valley has rethreading tools that work sometime.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware/page.aspx?p=62738&cat=3,41306

The studs are so soft that it usually their threads that fail, not those in the base. Guess you got unlucky!

[Ralph Boumenot]

Hi Greg,
Good info but I don't want to do this repair myself. Lucky or unlucky, I'm sure I'll be first to screw it up somehow. I am tempted though after reading about the studs vs the base. My stud will screw in but it's a loose fit.
thanx
ralph

[David Keller NC]

Hi Greg,
Good info but I don't want to do this repair myself. Lucky or unlucky, I'm sure I'll be first to screw it up somehow. I am tempted though after reading about the studs vs the base. My stud will screw in but it's a loose fit.
thanx
ralph

So here's a way you can do this yourself to save some cash. I would not suggest this if you've a plane that has collector's value, but that's not generally the case for #4s. Buy some JB Weld, or you can also use regular epoxy (JB Weld is essentially epoxy with metal particles in it). Clean the hole and the threaded rod thoroughly with laquer thinner - there must be no trace of residual oil or grease. Mix you epoxy or JB weld. Insert the tote screw through the tote, then smear the screw threads with the epoxy/JB Weld. Mount the tote and screw the tote screw in as far as it will go.

Assuming the threaded hole isn't greatly enlarged, the epoxy/JB Weld will fill in enough of the missing thread that it will hold against the lateral forces placed on the tote from planing. This repair will generally not work for parts that have forces put on them in a parallel direction to the screw - the epoxy isn't strong enough.

The only other way to do this that I'm aware of -and- use the original tote screw is to braze the hole up, then re-drill and re-tap it. If you already have a brazing torch and brazing rod, plus a drill press and the correct thread tap, this is worth doing. If you have to pay someone else to do it or have to buy the materials and tools to do it yourself, it's generally not worth it. Buying another #4 is considerably cheaper.

[Jim Koepke]

Ralph,

Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't indicate your location. If you are near me I can help you with this.

I have repaired this kind of damage in the past.

Here is my post on the repair.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?132457-Advanced-Fettling-404&p=1339970

Other members have their favorite thread repair products other than JB Weld.

The threads are 12-20. That is not a common tap.

Victornet has a minimum order. I would suggest buying 3 of the taps to meet the minimum order if they still carry them.

Then one of the taps can be carefully ground to make a bottom tap.

Since I have done this repair on two of my planes, they have not had a problem. I do not dismantle my planes if it is not necessary, so the repairs have not been disturbed.

Shipping back and forth on a plane might end up costing too much to make a long distance repair practical.

jtk

[Ralph Boumenot]

What you wrote about the brazing and drill/re-tap is what I am thinking the repair should be. If I can figure it out, I'll post a picture of the plane. It is definitely worth it IMO.
ralph

[Ralph Boumenot]

Hi Jim
thanks for the welcome and the info. I updated the profile (I didn't know about it). I don't have any metal working doo dads other than a 1/4-20 tap and wrench. I really don't want to attempt this repair. I'm willing to let others do it.
thanx
ralph

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Are you sure that the threads are shot? I've a #4 where the threads seemed pretty loose, but snugged up okay when I ground a little off the rod . . . I'm sure the threads weren't great, but it's worked since.

[Rob Mathis]

Try the Swap & Sale. Put up an ad asking who has one to sale.
Then try EBAY. I have seen them in both places.

[Ralph Boumenot]

Hi Rob,
I'm a stubborn sob about some things and this plane is one of them. I am going to exhaust all avenues of getting it repaired before I look elsewhere.
ralph

[Ralph Boumenot]

Hi Joshua,
I bought a plane kit from highlands and I should get it next week. I'll definitely try this first before I go nutso finding someone to fix it.
ralph

[Greg Wease]

Ralph, one caution about the Stanley parts kit is that it contains parts with the modern (metric?) threads as well as for the older planes like yours. Be sure to try the right ones. Also, the stud in the kit is long enough for the larger (#5+) totes and you may need to grind off a few threads for it to fit your #4. If all else fails, I may have a Type 9 base if you want to start over!

[Harvey Pascoe]

I fixed my #5 Stanley with this problem in less than an hour. I put it on the drill press, drilled out all the old threads and retreaded it. The rod was an oddball size so I went up to 1/4-20 and that worked fine.

One thing though, is that the reason for failure is that the boss into which the handle is threaded is much too shallow, too few threads, so I drilled right through the plane sole in order gain more threads. Now the handle is going to stay on.

[Ralph Boumenot]

thanks to all who replied and gave inputs to fix my problem. I got the plane kit from highlands and used that to fix my #4. It fit and now my #4 is earning its keep. Once I figure out how to post pics I'll show it off.
ralph

[Jim Koepke]

I think the posting of pictures has not changed since this was written:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167711-posting-photos-as-of-June-2011

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Glad to hear it is working well for you.

jtk

[Ralph Boumenot]

Hi Jim,
I tried to post the pics but it keeps failing to upload the images. It's not wooden so I'm having a problem understanding it.
ralph

[Jim Koepke]

You may have to use an image handling program to reduce the file size.

Some of the programs that come with your machine may allow you to save them as a .jpg and select the file size.

The SMC software can usually resize the image if it isn't too big, but tends to choke when they are in raw or tiff format.

I am not sure how it all works. I used to shrink mine with a GraphicConverter program. Now the software does it for me.

You might ask about it in the tech forum. I am not much up on PCs imaging software. I use a Mac and even that gets ahead of me at times.

And would you believe my degree is in microprocessor technology... Just goes to show how much things have changed since the 1980s.

jtk

[Ralph Boumenot]

211475211474

Here is the pic of my #4 that I fixed with the hardware from highland. I had to strip the tote due some crud on it I had to scrape off. And I still have some work to do on the knob.
The other pic is of the planes I rehabbed in last 3 months. I started with the #7 first, then a #3, then 2 #4's, and finally a #5. The #7 from WWII, the #4 & #3 from the turn of the century and the #5 is from the 30's. I'm looking to rehab a (type 10 to13) #8 next.
Again thanx to all who made suggestions and gave advice.
ralph

[Jim Koepke]

Looks good, it also looks like you are getting a good stable of users there.

I have a type 6/7 #8. It is kind of between types. It works fine and I do not miss the features of the later types.

Then again, my planes are all over the place from type 4 to type 13.

They all perform quite well despite their age or handicaps.

jtk