Bench Chisels

[Paul Canaris]

I currently own a motley assortment of bench chisels purchased in the early 80's when cash was tight; a partial set of Sheffield and Japanese purchased from Garret Wade when they were still in Manhattan and still carried tools worth owning.:D They are traditional European bench and Japanese style. I want to upgrade each of these with a new set as they are pretty beat up after 30 years of use. I am currently looking at Ashly Isles for the European available at The Best Things http://thebestthings.com/newtools/ashley_iles_bench.htm and Japanese with a slight twist (High Speed Steel) available at Traditional Woodworker http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Japanese-Chisels-Nomikatsu-Premium-Grade/products/633/.
As a matter of current work practices; I do all of my M&T work and Dovetails on machinery and not by hand, so I primarily use chisels for final tuning of joints. Also, I find I reach for my Japanese chisels more often than my European style for almost all tasks. I work mainly in white oak doing Mission and G&G pieces.
Can anyone who actually owns either of these comment on their ability to take a very sharp edge and retain it well compared to others within their respective types if you have that awareness or simply give a relative comment on how well they hold up between the need for sharpening.
I have not ruled out other the possibility of purchasing something entirely different, if anyone whishes to shear what has worked well for them, but this seems to be the way I m going so far.
I realize I am not perhaps your typical woodworker who hangs out in this section of the forum; but who better to ask then you guys given he higher level of usage you put on hand tools. So if anyone can help, i'd sure appreciate it.:)

[Jack Curtis]

Based on stated usage, I don't know that you need anything new. What you have will do those minor jobs.

Jack

[Paul Canaris]

It's not a need, it's a want :)

[David Weaver]

Paul, if i were in your position, I would get either vintage hand forged chisels (like very old ones, laminated - it will take some patience to find a good set of those) that were of very plain steel or hand forged japanese chisels from a well respected blacksmith - in white steel #1 or white #2 (there is some debate about white #2, but it can be made into a very good chisel by a competent blacksmith).

There will be no advantage to HSS chisels tuning joints, and in fact, there may be disadvantages if you like to use chisels in the 25 degree range.

If there were a need for some reach sometimes, more than a japanese chisel would have, I think I'd lean toward the western chisels. If it were short-distance work with a mallet more than by hand, I'd go with the japanese chisels.

Just personal opinions.

[Jonathan McCullough]

The Ashley Iles are very good. I have some and the O-1 steel is really nice. As true bevel-edged chisels, the sides are also narrow, which is a nice feature when you're getting down into corners or dovetails. If you wanted, you could get a couple so sharp and shiny you could watch yourself shave with an AI in the reflection of the other. A very good value in chisels. The new Narex bevel edge chisels also look like a good value, but I have no experience with them or the Japanese HSS chisels.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

While we're talking AI chisels - anyone have any opinions on them compared to them the offerings of Lie Nielsen?

[Andrae Covington]

The Ashley Iles are very good. I have some and the O-1 steel is really nice. As true bevel-edged chisels, the sides are also narrow, which is a nice feature when you're getting down into corners or dovetails. If you wanted, you could get a couple so sharp and shiny you could watch yourself shave with an AI in the reflection of the other. A very good value in chisels. The new Narex bevel edge chisels also look like a good value, but I have no experience with them or the Japanese HSS chisels.

I've been happy with my Ashley Iles as well. So I would recommend them. However...


I find I reach for my Japanese chisels more often than my European style for almost all tasks.

...if that is the case, then you should probably take David's advice on Japanese chisels.


Can anyone who actually owns either of these comment on their ability to take a very sharp edge and retain it well compared to others within their respective types if you have that awareness or simply give a relative comment on how well they hold up between the need for sharpening.

O-1 steel can be very sharp, I have pared end grain yellow pine with my Ashley Iles. I think the general consensus (but subject to considerable debate :rolleyes:) is that under best conditions, O-1 (like the Ashley Iles) is sharper than chrome-manganese (like the Narex) or HSS, but not as durable; the corollary is that O-1 is easier to sharpen. Just exactly how much sharper, how much more frequently they require sharpening, and what effort is required to sharpen, is where most of the debate occurs.


While we're talking AI chisels - anyone have any opinions on them compared to the offerings of Lie Nielsen?

Wish I had both so I could tell you.:D

[Paul Canaris]

Thanks to everyone for the responses; now I have more thinking to do :p

[Jim Matthews]

I use the Yeung Chan (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=46035&cat=1,41504) small set more than any other.

Your current set, properly sharpened will do the grunt work.
The little ones get things VERY tight.

[Trevor Walsh]

I own a 3/8" AI MK 2, as well as many vintage chisels (my favorite is a 3/8" Charles Buck-not Buck Bros. very thin and amazingly good steel. it holds a very sharp edge at around 22 degrees). I've also used a bunch of the LN's that other students in classes had. The handles on the LN's provide a nice grip with a lot of control, however I don't like how heavy the blades are in the larger sizes. The LN 1/8" and 1/4" are wonderful tools (if looking I would be tempted to get them in O-1). The AI have great handles too, the blade is much thinner and has nice lightness.

3/8" chisels are my favorite size, I use them for a lot of things, very rarely do I chop with a chisel however. Other than mortise chisels everything I use is for pairing, though I do hit the 1/4" with the palm of my hand when dovetailing. That's why I prefer O-1, or high carbon vintage steel tools with low bevel angles.

[george wilson]

HSS is too coarse grained a steel to take as keen an edge as some of the simpler steels. W1 will get the sharpest(if it has a good carbon content,there is a range of carbon,though). However, you lose edge durability with W1 since there are no alloys to increase abrasion resistance. 01 is the next step up,more durability to the edge,but a smidge less keen than W1. A2 is better at holding an edge,but less good at taking a keen edge than 01.

It is always a trade off,so you need to choose what you value the most.

[Tony Shea]

As well as the HSS chisels not taking as keen an edge, they also require more effort on your stones to get them as sharp as they should be. May even require special sets of stones designed to handle that kind of steel. The only advantage they do have as far as sharpening is that grinding them on a high speed grinder is of no consequence. IMO, the usage you state I would stay away from HSS.

If you really want to go the Japanese chisel route use David's advise. For just regular japanese bench chisels you would be hard pressed to find a better quality worker than Hida's Fujihiro brand chisels made by Chutaro Imai. They get extremely sharp and stay that way for a surprisingly long time. Very well made. I've also got some Koymaichi chisels that are very nice users.

[David Keller NC]

I work mainly in white oak doing Mission and G&G pieces.


Paul - This is probably the determining factor in your decision whether to go with Western or Eastern chisels. White oak is very hard and is tough on chisels, and western style cabinetmaking dovetail chisels are typically optimized for somewhat softer hardwoods (mahogany, walnut, cherry, poplar, eastern white pine, etc...). Because a japanese chisel from a good smith are a good deal harder than typical O-1, Cast Steel (antiques) or A-2, but yet are shock resistant because of the soft iron back, they are likely to hold up the best under the use to which you're putting them. They are also considerably less work to flatten the back because of the hollow, though theoretically you only need to do this once.

If you would prefer the Western style geometry to the typical japanese style, but yet want a more abrasion resistant steel, Lee Valley is rumored to be coming out with a "special alloy" set of chisels. But that rumor was at the prototyping stage, so what they actually produce could be quite different from rumors.