What am I doing wrong? Hand planed surface is fuzzy

[Tom Jones III]

I've been working on improving my hand planing skills by trying to smooth a glued up walnut panel. I can get the surface to where it is very flat with no ridges but, for lack of a better term, it feels fuzzy. Does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong? Is it really possible to get a finish quality surface right from a hand plane?

FWIW, I'm using a LN #4. The walnut is fairly average so the grain is not crazy.

[Chris Griggs]

Few questions

1) Are you sure your blade is sharp enough?
2) What angle frog do you have in the plane 45, 50, 55? (Since your not working figured wood a standard angle frog, I'd think would yield the smoothest surface)
3) Is the mouth on the plane closed relatively tightly?
4) Are you sure you are planing with the direction of the grain? Walnut, though very tame in many respects, can have frequent changes in grain direction (I'm talking about reversals not curl), you might be planing with the grain for some of it and then planing against the grain when it changes directions.

[David Weaver]

Hopefully this glued panel has all of the wood running with grain in the same direction.

you should be able to get a better surface with a plane than anything else.

Without seeing the wood, we can't really assess, but my first thought would be sharper iron, lighter shaving (and maybe tighten up the mouth, but sharp with a light shaving should be enough to get you where you need to go).

[Tom Jones III]

I'm using the standard LN #4 so it should be the 45* frog. I'll resharpen tonight and close up the mouth some more. If that doesn't solve the problem then I'll post some pictures of the wood and the shavings.

Thanks for the quick replies!

[Jack Curtis]

...Is it really possible to get a finish quality surface right from a hand plane?

Sure, in my case using a couple of polishing planes. The ECE Primus is a great western plane that comes very close to the polishers. At any rate, I'm comfortable not using any finish whatsoever, the wood feels wonderful.

Jack

[Tony Shea]

Absolutely should get a great surface off a LN #4 on walnut. Your iron needs to sharp sharp. Can you shave your arm hair with the blade? Im not a big fan testing the sharpness of your iron on a pen or finger nail to see if it catches. Just a relatively sharp (gaining on dull) will dig into a pen or finger nail. Should be absolutely razor sharp, if you want to get that polished surface right off the plane.

[john brenton]

Its great to have a forum for reassurance. Sometimes I wonder if something can be done or if I'm just wasting my time. In this case when you ask about surfaces and planes, David said it best. You should be able to achieve a glass like surface on most woods with a handplane. I don't know of any woods that you can't get a glassy smooth surface on, but I'm sure somebody here can tell you. Its most likely the sharpness of the iron that's cuasing the problem. Sharp is as sharp does.If it doesn't work out for you maybe you can try misting the surface to raise the fibers and hit it with some sandpaper.

[Jim Koepke]

With a sharp blade and a fine shaving, you should be able to get a surface smoother than with any sandpaper.

Closing the mouth can help some, but it is the fine shaving with as sharp a blade as can be that will get the smoothness. The closed mouth will help some with grain changes.

I was just hogging some thick shavings and one thing thick shavings always seem to have is "ridges" running across them. These are signs of blade chatter and tear out.

Some feel there is no purpose of making gossamer shavings. It sure leaves a nice surface after taking a few of those useless super thin shavings.

jtk

[Bill Moser]

With a sharp blade and a fine shaving, you should be able to get a surface smoother than with any sandpaper.
<snip>

Some feel there is no purpose of making gossamer shavings. It sure leaves a nice surface after taking a few of those useless super thin shavings.

jtk

Exactly. Why would anyone want the dusty mess of sandpaper when they can get a better surface with handplanes, without the mess, while enjoying the feel and sound of a well-set-up smoother? And you end up with great tinder for the woodstove in the process -- but be careful, those gossamer shavings practically explode into a ball of flame when you put a match to them :)

My problem with walnut isn't with any sort of "fur" -- I don't get that (any pics?) -- just with tearout from the grain reversals

[Russell Sansom]

Tom,
I'm wondering if you're using your #4 LN "out of the box?" I think there's some advertising that tries to suggest that "may need some honing" means it's ready to use as delivered to your door.

Except for the Barr chisels, I've never seen a modern iron that didn't require
1) removal of the surface grinder's pattern from the back and
2) the application of a proper leading edge.

As folks have suggested, tear-out aside, A #4 should leave a beautiful, near-glossy finish.

One wood that I know that can turn out fuzzy sometimes is Willow. There are 75+ species, so it probably varies considerably.

[Matthew Hills]

I've been working on improving my hand planing skills by trying to smooth a glued up walnut panel. I can get the surface to where it is very flat with no ridges but, for lack of a better term, it feels fuzzy. Does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong? Is it really possible to get a finish quality surface right from a hand plane?

Two questions:
- have you gotten a clean surface when planing before? (maybe try planing the edge of a poplar board)
- can you stop mid-stroke and take a photo of the shavings in the throat of your plane?

Matt

[Prashun Patel]

I've had this problem with walnut before. Planing against the grain (it can be tricky for me to determine this visually) can lead to tear out on some woods. On some walnut, it'll be forgiving enough to just fuzz without tearing out. This is probably because your plane is good, yr work is held well, your blade is already fairly sharp, and yr taking very light passes.

If it were me, I'd resharpen, take a deep breath, and go at it first from the same direction and then in the opposite direction to determine whether it was yr blade or the grain direction that was the prob.

Especially since this is a glue up, it might be that some adjacent boards are not aligned in the same direction.

[Tom Jones III]

Now that I've read all the responses I'm pretty sure that I need to do a better job sharpening. I did indeed use the LN #4 straight out of the box and the performance was amazing. I did a quick hone on the iron before really getting into the smoothing but now that I look back I definitely went too long without sharpening. The wife and kids will be out of the house this evening, I'm hoping to give it another try tonight.

Thanks for all the feedback!

[George Beck]

Tom

I would suspect sharpness. Get the blade really sharp (I sharpen to 15,000 on stones). Then select a small piece of wood like straight grained cherry or maple and set for a fine cut. It should take gossamer shavings and leave a very shinny surface. Now you know it is not the sharpness or the blade. Walnut sometimes has a tendency for swirl in the grain where the grain changes direction. Try using the plane skewed. I sometimes plane around knots at nearly 45 degrees. One thing neat about LN is the high angle frog option which is often handy on difficult woods where the grain wants to lift. Interesting that English cabinet makers use much walnut and often use 50 degree(york pitch) to 55 degree pitched planes.

George

[Jim Matthews]

If you have a card scraper, well jointed, you should be able to knock off fuzz quickly.

It may not be technique, or the blade of your smoother that "gives rise" to this...my guess is the plane mouth may be set too open for the depth of cut, and no shearing takes place.

[Tom Jones III]

Update: I finally got time to sharpen the iron and that solved almost all of the problem. I sharpened up through my finest stone (8000 grit) using a 25* angle. Sharpening alone solved quite a bit of the problem. I also closed up the mouth to an extremely tight fit and that got a much better surface. I wiped down the wood with mineral spirits and it looks great. I've still got a lot to learn but it is working like I had hoped. Thanks for the ideas and encouragement.

[Pat Barry]

Tom, from what I understand its not unusual to get fuzz for anyone.

[Jim Koepke]

from what I understand its not unusual to get fuzz for anyone.

I seem to get them every time I drive too fast. :eek:

jtk

[Susan Kahler]

I attended Graham Blackburn's session on planes at the recent WIA conference, and he sharpened a smoothing plane and ran it across a gorgeous piece of curly maple, taking perfect gossamer shavings each time. I was very surprised to feel the wood surface afterward and find it quite fuzzy in areas. I would have expected glassy smooth (the plane iron was very sharp), but the fuzz was where the grain changed. It was a densely figured board, so therefore a lot of fuzz. There were definitely some comments about that!

[Tony Shea]

I attended Graham Blackburn's session on planes at the recent WIA conference, and he sharpened a smoothing plane and ran it across a gorgeous piece of curly maple, taking perfect gossamer shavings each time. I was very surprised to feel the wood surface afterward and find it quite fuzzy in areas. I would have expected glassy smooth (the plane iron was very sharp), but the fuzz was where the grain changed. It was a densely figured board, so therefore a lot of fuzz. There were definitely some comments about that!

Interesting. Maple is one of the best behaving woods that my hand planes touch. Other than pear wood, maple produces the most glassy surface of all woods I use. Even real curly stuff and birdseye. The curly and b.e. does take a bit more care but still produces amazingly smooth surfaces. Which is why maple is one of my favorite woods to work.

[David Keller NC]

Update: I finally got time to sharpen the iron and that solved almost all of the problem. I sharpened up through my finest stone (8000 grit) using a 25* angle. Sharpening alone solved quite a bit of the problem. I also closed up the mouth to an extremely tight fit and that got a much better surface. I wiped down the wood with mineral spirits and it looks great. I've still got a lot to learn but it is working like I had hoped. Thanks for the ideas and encouragement.

Tom - Here's a test for sharpness that doesn't put you at risk of an emergency room visit (yeah, I've seen that happen with the "shave my arm hair" test): Get a piece of decent quality inkjet printing paper, hold your freshly sharpened iron by your thumb and index finger at the top of the iron, and use the weight of the iron only to attempt to take a slice of the paper off of the edge. The iron should give you a perfect slice without any tearing whatsoever - any fuzzines to the edge indicates a need to go back to the honing stones.

I've seen some comment that paper is abrasive and don't like this method for that reason. It's true that most quality paper is coated with clay particles that, if one used the blade to plane the edges of books all day, would dull the iron eventually. But testing the iron a few times in this way will have no effect whatsoever.

[Chris Griggs]

Tom - Here's a test for sharpness that doesn't put you at risk of an emergency room visit (yeah, I've seen that happen with the "shave my arm hair" test): Get a piece of decent quality inkjet printing paper, hold your freshly sharpened iron by your thumb and index finger at the top of the iron, and use the weight of the iron only to attempt to take a slice of the paper off of the edge. The iron should give you a perfect slice without any tearing whatsoever - any fuzzines to the edge indicates a need to go back to the honing stones.

I've seen some comment that paper is abrasive and don't like this method for that reason. It's true that most quality paper is coated with clay particles that, if one used the blade to plane the edges of books all day, would dull the iron eventually. But testing the iron a few times in this way will have no effect whatsoever.

The paper test can also be nice because it can help you find tiny dull areas on the blade. Those area will catch a tiny bit if you pull the edge along the paper. I still shave my arm a lot (which my fiancee can't stand) but it can be a misleading test since a blade that has some really sharp areas and some dull areas will still pop hair. If I really need to make sure a blade is sharp I prefer to pair end grain, since the resulting surface reveals localized imperfections in the edge - although honesty most the time I don't bother to do this.