Traditional Rasps vs Dragon Rasps vs Iwasaki carving files

[John Coloccia]

Well, I'm just on a roll this week with videos. I won't let it go to my head, I promise. I mean really, is it too much to ask that my film crew measure my Cheerios before serving them to make sure that they're all within tolerance? After all, if they're different sizes, the milk will be distributed unevenly, and that would be such a shame to do with the milk I have imported from Germany (little known fact...the German's have great milk).

So actually, I was at a good point to demo some different carving tools so I thought I would because they come up from time to time and I've yet to see anyone compare these suckers side by side.

One thing: I keep mistakenly referring to the Dragon Rasps as files for some reason. I assure you that they are RASPS. Sorry for any confusion but you get what you pay for, in this case nothing, so if you get ANY useful information at all out of this, you're doing better than can reasonably be expected regardless.

Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj-rI1MoxBc


Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJETNvD4E6Q


Part 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5zglwv_9yQ

[Stuart Tierney]

Hi John,

Thank you.

I've been on the fence about Iwasaki's stuff for a few months now, and from what I did learn from your videos (my collection of rasps is similar in size, but vastly different in composition!) is that the Iwasaki's are probably worth the trouble.

I'm talking as making them available for sale, not to add to my collection. Although, I'll naturally do that as well. :)

(The trouble is I need to buy them by the box, for each size. No exceptions. Difficult when you've got half a dozen new things on the boil that all need attention of a monetary nature...)

The red-tang versions are the chemically sharpened ones, correct? If so, are they worth it over and above the standard Iwasaki files?


Looks like I need to pester some folks over rasps and files here. Believe me, Iwasaki isn't the only game in town... ;)

(And some of the rasps I do have are wet-your-pants wonderful.)

Thanks a heap, very informative contrary to what you might think.

Stu.

[John Coloccia]

Stu:

Good question about the red tangs. I believe I bought most of these at my local Woodcraft, so no great thought went into them other than:

1) bought a couple because they were new and looked cool
2) liked them so much I bought a lot more

I didn't even know they came chemically sharpened vs standard.

One thing to note: once you get good with the Iwasakis, you can use a more traditional rasp motion but it requires exceptionally light pressure and will frustrate new users. I've found that works better with the curved ones.

[Klaus Kretschmar]

Thank you, John. You did a good job on comparing those rasps, the results are interesting. I'll second them by all means. Although I have to use rasps and files in another way due to the little size of the objects (tool handles) I'm working with, the results are very similar. 2 handcut rasps are nearly out of use since I use the Iwasakis. More or less I use the other rasps just to break the edges a little bit before the coarser Iwasaki will be put to work.

I've to confirm, that the finish which the Iwasakis leave, is amazingly good. That saves quite a lot of time since one has to do one step less to prepare the workpiece for the finish.

Klaus

[Chris Griggs]

Great video John - good to see the comparison. Also, great explanation of the Iwasaki's and the way to use them. I have a half round extra-fine that I use for mostly saw handles (but also recently on case feet) - that I really like it a lot, and will probably buy a couple more some day. One more note on the Iwasaki's is that I think they're more difficult to use when they are brand new. It's almost like they come just a hair to sharp, and after a few uses they bite just a touch less (of course that could have just been the learning curve).

Stu all I know about the Iwasakis that the various stores here carry is that they refer to them as the mediums, fines, and extra-fines. Also, everything I've read about them is that they are chemically sharpened. I'd highly recommend you carry them, you probably won't sell many to your customers in the US and Canada since they are so readily available here, but they are a great product.

Anyway, again John, great video, you tool demo/reviews are fantastic. You really do a great job highlighting/demonstrating both good and the bad.

EDIT: Stu, the description from Woodcraft's website reads "Iwasaki files cut with surprising speed and yet leave a smooth surface due to the manner in which the teeth are milled and chemically etched." So my assumption is that the one's John demonstrated and the one I have are chemically sharpened.

[Phil Thien]

Very informative, thanks for the videos.

[Mike Holbrook]

I recently bought about 6 of the Iwasaki's. I think they are actually joinery or plane makers floats, which I guess is a type of file. I have been making hand planes from Purple Heart, from the last of Steve Knights plane making stock. I am about to make some Bowsaws, from Hickory, as well. Steve was out of Ash so my plane totes are even Purple Heart. The wood is very tough and working it has been a challenge. I think the lighter pressure technique may help me, even though the wood is so tough. I got all the files with the plastic handles that Highland Woodworking carries. I am thinking about getting a few of the larger files as well. If I recall a conversation/email with Stu correctly the prices of thee files is very good currently. Stu seemed to think the pries will go up when current stocks run out.

I think John mentions Auriou rasps, are those the ones he pronounces as AR'? Are they actually worth the money? I have been studying the Rasps/Files offered by Tools For Working Wood. They have an interesting article describing the difference between Gramercy & Auriou rasps. I have been thinking about ordering the Gramercy Tools Handle Maker's Rasp as it looks like it would work well on totes, other handles and other hard to reach areas that need work. I was thinking about getting a few other Gramercy rasps too. With planes I am finishing up, the Bowsaws and other tool handles I need to make I imagine they will come in handy.

I understand that the Auriou's cut a little better due to the harder steel. My shop has some water issues though, being underground with concrete walls, and I think the stainless in the Gramercy Rasps might be better for me. I understand the stainless teeth are "tougher" which might also save a tooth or two when working the Purple Heart. If I understood John's video correctly the Iwasaki files could dress up any rough spots, if I lighten up on them. They do leave a nice finish.

[Stuart Tierney]

I'd highly recommend you carry them, you probably won't sell many to your customers in the US and Canada since they are so readily available here, but they are a great product.



Yeah, that's the unfortunate thing, but at the moment I'm not sending much to the US/Canada anyway.

Russia and Eastern Europe, quite a bit. Asia and Oceania, plenty. South America, some. But North America and Western Europe, pretty dead.

Oh well...

Stu.

[Jack Curtis]

Yeah, that's the unfortunate thing, but at the moment I'm not sending much to the US/Canada anyway.

Russia and Eastern Europe, quite a bit. Asia and Oceania, plenty. South America, some. But North America and Western Europe, pretty dead.

There's this little hiccup called the Great Recession that's pretty much bollocksed everything. Funny thing about home ownership declining, since that's probably how most find their way into refined woodworking.

Jack

[Mike Holbrook]

I like my new Sigma Select II, 3000 stone Stu, still trying to figure out the Japanese plane and tapping with the plane hammer. All my stones are getting a work out making usable bevels & edges on all the rough plane blades I got from Steve Knight.

Stu does carry Shinto Saw-Rasps, they are a very interesting and useful rasp if one needs to remove a bunch of wood in a hurry. The one I have has a coarse and fine side. The working surfaces are composed of saw blades (different tooth profile on both sides) joined together in a pattern. I love them. I just replaced the one that got ruined from being left outside at a construction project .

[David Weaver]

Yeah, that's the unfortunate thing, but at the moment I'm not sending much to the US/Canada anyway.

Russia and Eastern Europe, quite a bit. Asia and Oceania, plenty. South America, some. But North America and Western Europe, pretty dead.

Oh well...

Stu.

Yeah, in keeping with what Jack said, Russia and Eastern Europe may not have their local and national news telling them 76 ways the economic world is going to end. The ones that have a large energy sector are probably actually doing well.

Plus, some of us who used to order a lot (*ahem* ..not sure who that might be!) are pretty well topped off.

Japan should have "crappy yen day" once a year, where they discount the value of the yen (significantly) on exchange for purchases. Bet you'd get some orders if they did that!

[Kent A Bathurst]

John - thanks for the work on 'splaining it to us rasp non-literates. The video worked out pretty well, I thought, and what fine details it could not show, you did a perfect job of describing what you were seeing, feeling, and hearing. I followed right along with you.

I've got the N #48 & #49, and they do OK for what I use them for, but I could tell there's something missing, and now I know what it is.

You ain't helping me any when you keep bringing up the Auriou rasps..........Highland has a full-line display of them that I circle around each trip to the store...........my path through the store looks like a few passes of light particles on a graphic explaining Einstein's stuff - my path heads thru the store, and bends toward the Auriou display, and straightens back out, and then bends back again..........touch and feel each different grain, then turn on the booster rockets to achieve escape velocity again. And - NO - If I ever get any, I'm not sending them to you as you requested in the video clips. Your a decent sort of fellow and all that, but there is a limit :D.

Thanks again

Kent

[Mike Holbrook]

Does anyone have experience with the Gramercy/Tools for Working Wood files/rasps to offer? I am thinking about buying a couple of them very soon. They are hand made rasps like the Aurios's but made of stainless rather than high carbon steel. They are a little less expensive.

I am not finding the company that makes the Dragon files John mentions either, Stu Mack?

[John Coloccia]

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Files/Dragon_Hand-cut_Rasps.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=21356&tgtiid=4151

(http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Files/Dragon_Hand-cut_Rasps.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=21356&tgtiid=4151)The prices are quite reasonable.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks John,

Those are very reasonably priced for a hand-struck rasp. I watched the videos again and tried the lighter hand technique on a smooth plane I am working on. Seemed to me that the Purple Heart requires a little more pressure or the Iwasakis just seem to burnish the wood. I am still working on my technique though. I will play around with the rasps/files I have now before ordering anything.

[Mikhail Lermontov]

John,
It says the videos are private. Would you please make them work for us.

Thanks a lot in advance.

[John Coloccia]

John,
It says the videos are private. Would you please make them work for us.

Thanks a lot in advance.

You should be good to go. I did a bit of cleanup a while ago to get a little privacy back. I decided to switch these to "unlisted", so you'll be able to view them and share them now.

The bottom line is I really like a regular rasp for roughing work, but I find myself grabbing for the Iwasakis for final shaping and things like that. The finish they leave, IF you use the right technique, is fantastic. They can be quite grabby until you figure them out, but don't give up on them. There's a reward at the end of the learning curve.

[Mikhail Lermontov]

You should be good to go. I did a bit of cleanup a while ago to get a little privacy back. I decided to switch these to "unlisted", so you'll be able to view them and share them now.

The bottom line is I really like a regular rasp for roughing work, but I find myself grabbing for the Iwasakis for final shaping and things like that. The finish they leave, IF you use the right technique, is fantastic. They can be quite grabby until you figure them out, but don't give up on them. There's a reward at the end of the learning curve.

Working now thanks again John.

After some research I came to the same conclusion, to buy Iwasaki fine and extra fine ones then add a pair of 10' Stewmac dragons.

[Daniel Rode]

John, thanks for [re]posting these!

I really appreciate the thread getting revived. I've been trying to learn more choosing and using rasps. It really helps to see you use them as you explain the differences. I have a Nicholson milled file that's a little bit like the Iwasakis. I'm going to adjust my technique and bit and see if I get better results. Regardless, the Iwasakis are now on my wish list.

Thanks again, I learned a lot.

[Mikhail Lermontov]

For experienced and newbies below is great article about the most common rasps machined and hand stitched. It might been posted already but still could be useful to read it again.

https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/half-round-cabinet-rasps

[glenn bradley]

I have the small red rubber handled one in my arsenal. It is a great little tool that gets a lot of use.

[Kent A Bathurst]

You ain't helping me any when you keep bringing up the Auriou rasps..........Highland has a full-line display of them that I circle around each trip to the store........... And - NO - If I ever get any, I'm not sending them to you as you requested in the video clips. Your a decent sort of fellow and all that, but there is a limit :D.


Sorry to quote myself, but............5 years ago. Forgot this thread entirely. I reversed direction.

4 different Auriou in hand. Nuttin' like 'em in my experience.

Greetings from the Borg. Buy just one. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

And - John C - nope. you ain't getting them.

Kent

[John Coloccia]

I keep meaning to pick up some Aurious or Logiers. I never got around to it. When I set up the new shop and unload some unused equipment, I probably will. :)