How long to flatten?

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

I just got a No. 7 Stanley (type 9 i'm told) by mail for a fair price from a reputable seller. The plane was billed as a good user and I expected some elbow grease to get it going. Was most nervous about the sole, of course.

The plane arrived and is in good shape (blade's usable, etc.) and I've started lapping the sole. Unfortunately, the tail lifts up and my question is how much effort will it be to get it flat. It's flat (including around the mouth) until ~6" from the tail where it's .002" high. 3" from the tail it's 0.006" high and the last 1.5" is .01" high. How close do I need to get the tail (i'm presuming "very" or it'll just plane a cup...).

I've rehabed a 3 and 5 and built a wooden smoother, so know what I need to do. About 10 minutes hard lapping wasn't terribly encouraging. I can send it back, though there's the two-way shipping. My question is how long will it take? Is it a lost cause or should I give up and save me scheckles for a lv/ln?

Cheers,
Chris C.

[Chris Griggs]

Well I've never lapped anything that big, but based on my experiences lapping 4s and 5s that's potentially a lot of work. The good news is, despite that sounding very out flat in the last 1-2 inches, you still have 20 inches of a pretty flat sole so it might still work fine. Remember, your not taking subthou shavings with a jointer. Sharpen up the blade and give it a try before doing anything else. If may or may not work well. I'd say try it out and report back.

[Bill Moser]

I think it would take a very long time to remove enough of the sole to get rid of that 0.01. I just checked my 5,k6,607 and 608 and I cant get a .0015 feeler under the straightedge where on any of them. I don't think I ever touched the 6 or the 8, and may have spent a half hour or so between the 5 and the 7. The 5 was free, from my grand-dad, and the rest were going-rate prices on planes in very good shape. Unless you got the 7 for a real bargain, I'd return it.

[James Scheffler]

The good news is, despite that sounding very out flat in the last 1-2 inches, you still have 20 inches of a pretty flat sole so it might still work fine. Remember, your not taking subthou shavings with a jointer. Sharpen up the blade and give it a try before doing anything else. If may or may not work well. I'd say try it out and report back.

+1. My prediction is that it will work ok as is. Spend a little more time and it will work a little better.

Jim S.

[Mark Denovich]

Two strategies: 1) use a belt sander to knock down the high spots. 2) Loose coarse diamonds on a flat plate of lexan (or copper/aluminum, etc.)

I've done both. With the belt sander, nibble a bit off, then lap it again to see how much more you need to take off. Repeat as needed. Using a Sharpie to mark the high spots can help... grind away the Sharpie and check/mark/grind again.

The diamonds (I used 100grit, 100/120 mesh diamonds from ebay. $20 for 100ct) will cut remarkably well. You can do in 10 min on diamonds what takes an hour on 80grit Norton 3x. I sprinkled a pea sized amount of diamonds evenly on a 4"x16"x3/8" slab of lexan (a scrap piece I had saved.) A few drops of baby oil for lube and set the plane on the surface and try to press those diamonds in. Make small circular motions at first (otherwise the edges of the plane will just collect most of the loose diamonds.) It will sound ugly at first as they roll around, but after 10 or 20 seconds they'll start to embed into the plastic, and the sound will change to a cutting/scraping sound. Now you can start taking longer strokes. You can scrape off any of the diamonds that collect on the edges of the plane/lexan and reapply to the surface. You are not trying to get a completely gritted surface like sandpaper... it should merely be evenly studded with diamonds. Now lap until you get a flat surface. Add a little oil as necessary which can help float a bit of the swarf away. Don't unwittingly drag your fingers across the surface (they will grind skin away too). And try to keep the loose diamonds from contaminating other surfaces. You'll be swearing if one of them embeds themselves in your 8000x water stone. Thoroughly clean the plane when you are done.

Remember to have the blade/chipbreaker in the plane, and clamped tight (but with the blade safely retracted) because the clamp pressure can/will distort the sole of the plane... so lap it the way you are going to use it.

[David Weaver]

At the very most, you can take 2 thousandths off the plane, but leave the rest.

Use the plane as it is, it should work fine. I wouldn't bother with it. I've lapped a bunch of jointers, but only because a lot of them were hollow in the length. I wouldn't do anything with that one, it's "out" in the direction that favors a skilled (or even barely skilled) user (if it was out the other way, it would favor nobody).

If you want a dead flat jointer, buy an LN 7 or 8, but it's not necessary to have one that flat to do good work, especially if you're using it on rough lumber. Don't sink a bunch of money into a stanley jointer trying to make it an LN.

I would never send back an old jointer that came like that (it's perfectly fine the way it is), you'll not find one anywhere that's dead flat unless someone has done work to it, and if you work it too hard on a lap, you might just turn it into a banana.

Use the jointer as it is, see how it works. You're in analysis paralysis at this point.

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

As it turns out, the answer to my question is "not very long". I put down two pieces of 32 grit sandpaper on the tablesaw and lapped for maybe 15 minutes last night. The sand paper was leftover from a floor refinishing job. The sole's now flat, except the last 2", which is within 0.002" and I'm calling it good for now. I'll report back once I have a chance to put it through it's paces. However, if I was still using 80 or 220 or similar, it would have taken a loooooong time I suspect.

Mark- cool idea on the diamonds.

David- Thanks for the encouragement to keep it simple--that's my plan. i'm not a "micrometer man" by any stretch and this one is going to be pure user, no flash. I am curious why you say that high on the ends favors a skilled worker.

Cheers,
Chris C.


209148

[David Weaver]

You probably have some pretty deep scratches in the bottom with a lot of "fuzz" on them that will make the plane seem grippy in wood. take something - anything, even something like 400 grit paper on a block, knock off all of the "fuzzies", and then wipe or brush off all of the dust on the bottom of the plane, as the sooty dust coming off the toe of the plane will dull the iron quickly.

It (the plane) should work like a charm at the flatness you have if nothing else is a wildcard on it (like a bad fit somewhere or something loose).

As I mentioned above, I have lapped a lot of jointers. I usually run them on 80 grit paper, and finish them as the paper is getting a bit worn, and then knock off the fuzz with a sandflex block. 32 is probably a bit coarse to stop, but i haven't found any benefit to going to a finer paper than 80 (in terms of the surface that is left on the wood after planing), if the metal fuzz is knocked off the plane, the surface on the wood should be mirror finish if the iron is sharp.

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks David, I did forget to mention that detail... I do plan to polish it down because it is a bit rough right now :)

Cheers,
C

[Jay Maiers]

The diamonds (I used 100grit, 100/120 mesh diamonds from ebay. $20 for 100ct) will cut remarkably well. You can do in 10 min on diamonds what takes an hour on 80grit Norton 3x. I sprinkled a pea sized amount of diamonds evenly on a 4"x16"x3/8" slab of lexan (a scrap piece I had saved.) ...

Is there any reason the loose diamonds wouldn't work with a laminated surface or on acrylic? I've got a boatload of both that I could mount on a dead flat torsion box. That would be a serious time saver when I'm flattening blades or lapping planes.

[Christopher Charles]

Howdy all,

Happy to report that, even with the blade straigth off the grinder, the plane does great, even on red elm (haven't unpacked the waterstones yet). It's not perfect (in a lv or ln sort of way) but is funcitonal in the important ways (flat over nearly all the sole and especially at the mouth) and performs as a jointer should. I expect it will be a go-to user.

Thanks,
Chris C.

209238

[Mark Denovich]

Is there any reason the loose diamonds wouldn't work with a laminated surface or on acrylic? I've got a boatload of both that I could mount on a dead flat torsion box. That would be a serious time saver when I'm flattening blades or lapping planes.

Certainly no problem with Acrylic, I've used that too. A laminated surface might work... I actually use MDF with loose diamonds, but with really fine <.5 micron (50,000 grit) diamond powder... that's what I use for my final honing and blade touch up (free-handed.) I use 3M honing film (scary sharp) for the secondary and tertiary bevels.