OT: who has computer woes?

[markus shaffer]

i've seen so many posts here, on the old pond site, and at wood central to name a few concerning computes woes.. it seems every few days there's another post where the dreaded blue screen has ruined someone's day or some other such illegal operation has led someone to start pulling out hair. i'll admit, i've had a computer problem or two in the past.. however, the majority, if not all off-topic computer posts i've read have all been "windows" machine problems. i sympathize with anyone fighting with computers.. the above mentioned hair pulling is a painful prospect for me considering the mop i have for hair.

i suppose the question that i am getting at, am i the only one on here using a mac? not trying to sell anyone on anything here, but on the new mac OS, i've not had any crashes, frozen screens, or any other nonsense. got something to plug into the computer? no problem, plug it in and it works.. new digital camera and card reader i recently got both just work without any drivers to install or download. my printer just plugged in and worked right out of the box. no software cds or disks. plug into a network and it works. just connect to server and i can read the windows machines on the network. however, without special software, they can't see my computer. (surprise surprise) i'm knocking on wood right now as with my luck, my computer will end up with some virus that causes the processor to catch fire.

don't get me wrong, i understand there are many reasons why people use pc machines, but the headaches involved seem quite a bit much for me. alas, i can't completely dismiss the computer world as without it, we wouldn't have this forum where everyone meets to share ideas and information. although at times i'm sure we all (myself and other mac users included) would like nothing more than to take a circular saw to our computers, i am pretty grateful to be a part of this community that allows all of us to get together regardless of the machine used to get here.

-markus

[Jason Roehl]

Markus,

I just upgraded to XP a few months ago, and have had virtually zero problems since. Any minor issues that have popped up are pretty much traced to the fact that I did not do a clean install of XP, rather I installed over the previous OS (WinME). But, good or not, I would probably never consider a Mac. Why? It just boils down to convenience. And, while it may not be a problem anymore, I just could never get past the system demanding a particular floppy back, and not doing anything until you put it back in.

[Glenn Clabo]

Like Jason I've switched over to XP on all three of our computers, 2 laptops and desktop, and haven't had one problem that locked up the computer. We just hooked up a wireless network this weekend which took less than 5 minutes AND it works so well we are more than pleased that we spent the money. Not one glitch so far...

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Markus.

I have been running Windows 2000 Professional since it was in Beta test and have found that it is a good OS. I installed Windows XP home edition on my wifes machine and it has performed without error. Windows 2000 was built upon Windows NT, the commercial, ready for prime time, version of Windows. Then, Windows XP was built upon Windows 2000.

All previous releases of windows 9x were nothing more than pretty graphics setting on top of a 15-20 year old DOS operating system. Windows NT, 2000, XP are true multi-tasking OSs, something that Unix, OS/2, and IBM's mainframe MVS had been doing since day one. So there is hope that M/S is getting their heads out of the sand learning how to build an OS.

Windows 2000 is my prime OS because it is 100% compatible with everyone else that I communicate with on the net. I also play with Redhat Linux which is getting better with each release, ie, more compatible interfaces with Windows. If I feel more adventurous, I bring up Freebsd or Openbsd....

My conclusion is that people who are having all the problems with Windows are running older versions of windows, not Windows XP, and they need up run, not walk, to their software store and buy Windows XP.

I am not anti Mac, as I have never used one. I do hear good things about them. :)

[Keith Outten]

Linux is another option for those who are at their wits end with Windows and all of the virus problems, etc.

Linux is free and there is enough free software on the Internet to handle just about any task, personal or business.

I expect that most PC users have at least one program that must be run in Windows and because of that one program feel that they just can't switch to another operating system. When Linux has a really good Windows emulator the tide will change.

I have a laser engraver and the only print driver avaialble is for Windows, so at least one machine in my office has to run the Windows operating system. When the manufacturer of my engraver gets really smart and provides a Linux driver, goodbye Windows.

Here is a tip...As an ISP we do hundreds of phone calls every week helping people solve their PC problems. Over 90% of the problems would be eliminated if people would just not use Outlook or Outlook Express as an email client. The majority of viruses and trojans are written for or designed to be spread by Microsoft's email software. Not one of the Windows machines in our office runs any virus protection software and we never have in over eight years as an Internet Provider. We don't use Outlook!!!!!

[Jason Roehl]

Originally posted by Keith Outten

Here is a tip...As an ISP we do hundreds of phone calls every week helping people solve their PC problems. Over 90% of the problems would be eliminated if people would just not use Outlook or Outlook Express as an email client. The majority of viruses and trojans are written for or designed to be spread by Microsoft's email software. Not one of the Windows machines in our office runs any virus protection software and we never have in over eight years as an Internet Provider. We don't use Outlook!!!!!

AMEN!!! I use the free edition of Eudora...great program and minimal, non-invasive ads. I also have not had any viruses come in since I made the switch.

[Jim Becker]

Markus, you are correct that the latest versions of the MAC are quite excellent. Unfortunately, many of us have a huge investment in applications that we would have to re-buy or replace with something else to make the move to a MAC...or even Linux. The computer is the least expensive part of the deal these days.

I have four machines here; one on Win2K, one on XP-pro, one on Red Hat Linux and my wife's machine on Win98. The latter will change to XP real soon now since Win98 is toast in about a month for any and all support, including security fixes...unfortunately, the computer will need to be replaced, too, since it's not up to speed (quite literally) for any of the current operating systems.

One point, though. most computer problems are related to applications, rather than the computer or operating system! Program developers so often write code that conflicts with other installed applications or even with parts of the OS, itself. However, much of that can be attributed to the programming methodology encouraged under Windows..namely DLLs (Dynamic Link Libraries) which can be commingled, rather than segregated like application components were in the "good old days". That mingling is where the problems occur, especially when older DLLs overwrite newer versions due to poor installation procedures.

[Steve Clardy]

Originally posted by Keith Outten
Linux is another option for those who are at their wits end with Windows and all of the virus problems, etc.

Linux is free and there is enough free software on the Internet to handle just about any task, personal or business.

I expect that most PC users have at least one program that must be run in Windows and because of that one program feel that they just can't switch to another operating system. When Linux has a really good Windows emulator the tide will change.

I have a laser engraver and the only print driver avaialble is for Windows, so at least one machine in my office has to run the Windows operating system. When the manufacturer of my engraver gets really smart and provides a Linux driver, goodbye Windows.

Here is a tip...As an ISP we do hundreds of phone calls every week helping people solve their PC problems. Over 90% of the problems would be eliminated if people would just not use Outlook or Outlook Express as an email client. The majority of viruses and trojans are written for or designed to be spread by Microsoft's email software. Not one of the Windows machines in our office runs any virus protection software and we never have in over eight years as an Internet Provider. We don't use Outlook!!!!!

Keith, what mail program are you running? Linux? Steve

[Jim Becker]

Originally posted by Steve Clardy
Keith, what mail program are you running? Linux? Steve

I obviously can't answer for Keith, but many Linux adoptees use Ximan Evolution for their email client. It's an "Outlook"-like program without many of the negatives and can even work with a Microsoft Exchange Server in addition to SMTP POP or IMAP servers.

[Bartee Lamar]

I make a living doing computer system design and programming. I have 5 computers all on Windows 2000 Pro.

I have NO problems. I use Norton anti-virus 2003 and Zone Alarm. If you are on a cable modem or DSL and do not use Zone Alarm you are asking for trouble.

If your anti-virus software is not automatically checking of virus updates you WILL get a virus.

Windows ME is the WORST windows MS ever put out. It was pure marketing. I know of NO one who does NOT have troulbe with it.


So If you are on Windows 95 or 98SE or ME you should very seriously consider upgrading to XP. ( XP is the predecessor to Win 2000 )

Check www.cruicial.com and see if you can put more memory in your computer. This is an excellent upgrade that will get more life from an old computer.

Another great upgrade is to add a new Hard Disk. This is not difficult and will greatly add life to an old computer.

Hope this helps some one... I know a lot about computers. I am learn about WW from you guys everyday... Thx...

[Jason Roehl]

Originally posted by Bartee Lamar
( XP is the predecessor to Win 2000 )



I think you mean that 2000 is the predecessor to XP...2000 was out long before XP was, and MS claims XP was built on 2000.

[Bill Howatt]

MACs have certainly are good machines but they didn't have to fight the "legacy" problem since the installed base when MACs came out was zero and Apple gave the MAC developers a clean slate to start with - the bread and butter Apple II stuff was out of the picture. Also, the system was very proprietary and thus hardware options were severely limited and expensive. The thing that made PCs relatively cheap was also their weakness -third party hardware and software drivers. The third-party hardware availability and price were the things that kept Apple from beating the PC right off the line. Also, many home PCs were initailly bought for gaming (the Internet wasn't a big deal in the 80's) and the PC won hands down since gamers didn't care about resource sucking GUI interfaces. The MAC shone in WYSIWYG graphics work and still may be the leader in that field but certainly not to the extent it was.

I never considered my W98Se system to be all that bad and XP is very, very stable. There are a lot of apps that are still "Sorry, Windows only" and today, that is what I see as the problem with Apple machines. Yes, I know there may be alternatives and work-arounds but it isn't worth the bother to me.

Outlook and IE are virus targets and certainly could have used some better security considerations during development but just who do you think the sociopath virus writers are targetting - the programs with millions of users or the ones with a comparatively small number of users?

Bill

[markus shaffer]

so far, it seems i am possibly the sole mac user here.. well, somebody's gotta go against the grain, might as well be me.. laughs..

-markus

[Lee Schierer]

[i]
Windows ME is the WORST windows MS ever put out. It was pure marketing. I know of NO one who does NOT have troulbe with it.




[/B]

I run windows ME at home and have no problems. It runs just fine. We had problems trying to network Windows ME at work, but as a stand alone it works fine.

I also avoid outlook as a mail client. I use Netscape, which also seems to be immune to the numerous virus files running around out there. I do run active virus protection as well.

[John Miliunas]

Hey, that's almost a pun! At any rate, I use Outlook and have used it since Office 97. Problems? Not. Here's my take on it: Yes, I DO know there are low-lifer's out there targeting Outlook. In a way, that's exactly why I use it! Surprised? Don't be. With using a "targeted" app, I'm more aware of my use of that app. I keep all the latest security updates on it, I make sure my AV defs are updated and I use common sense when dealing with incoming email. And, non-Outlook email clients are, by no means, immune to viri attacks. Just today, I had to walk a client through a virus removal received via email. You guessed it: Eudora! Version 5.2, no less (the latest, greatest).

I guess the way I see it is, there are just too many folks becoming complacent with non-MS email clients. One of these fine days, some pimple-faced hacker, with nothing better to do, will develop a hack, which will directly hit Macs or Eudora or all email clients or Linux, etc... Those folks who've become lackadaisical in their treatment of how they handle email, simply because "it doesn't happen on a Mac or with Eudora", may get a very rude awakening. And for me, that's ok, too. Job security, dontchya' know!:D :cool:

[John Miliunas]

Funny you should bring up this topic today. I just read a lengthy article on this very subject at one of the "Techie" sites. You're right: PC's are indeed more prone to crashes or problems. But, for the most part, if one is running a decent O/S with decent hardware, most, if not all of those problems are non-existent. As others have indicated, XP is darn-near bullet-proof in terms of stability, with W2k running a real close second. Fact is, simply having an operating system which can be adapted to an almost infinite number of hardware variations, is truly spectacular. Quite frankly, with the vast numbers of different peripherals both, internal and external, I'm kinda' surprised there aren't many more issues.

Why then does a Mac virtually do away with crashes? Total control. Let's see someone install OS 9.2 natively on a Dell, Gateway or some homebrew machine. Not gonna' happen. No, the Mac operating systems *need* to be installed and run on a Mac. Stands to reason that a major cause of crashes is therefore eliminated, that being a variety of hardware and related drivers.

Hey, I'm NOT bashing Macs or people who use them. Heck, I'm even learning some of the features and functions of Jaguar, because I have a number of customers I'm now servicing, who do run Macs. Also, I really do NOT think you're the *only* Mac user here, so don't feel "lonely".:D :cool:

[Scott Purdy]

Markus:

Hang in there. I am an infrequent reader of this board, but an avid Mac user. You're not completely alone.

Lots of reasonable points here, especially about users invested in PC software. One could in theory switch to a Mac when it was time to upgrade MS Office. The Mac comes with great photo, music, web browsing and movie software (also heard good things about the mail app, but use FirstClass because of work), all free. Add MS Office for word processing and spreadsheets, and you have most of what the average Joe would need.

Purds

[Ken Garlock]

I have been running Outlook Express or Outlook for as long as I have had a Windows OS. I had only one problem with Outlook 97 when it had an invalid entry in one of its folders. The only way I got out of the problem was to import the message database into Outlook Express. That was just about a year ago, and I havent tried Outlook since.

Regarding Linux mail readers, under Redhat 7.2 I use the Mozzila mail package. It seems to work OK for me. :) I hear Redhat 9 is just around the corner, so I guess it will be upgrade time.

If you want an OS that will stay up, get an HP unix system. When I was at TI, our people-soft system ran for a 1.5 years solid before it was shutdown for hardware upgrades. Not a boot in 1.5 years! Darn near as good as an IBM mainframe.:cool:

You can't pickup a real computer!

[Craig Howard]

I'm running Jaguar on and old G3. I've added a bunch of memory and a brand spankin' new 80 gig HD. IMHO, OSX is awesome. I'll admit I have my share of <i>minor</i> problems. For example, something funky is going on with my cookies. For some reason, they don't update like they should (when I log onto the Creek or WC, it might show my last visit as a few days earlier than it actually was). Go figure. Anyway, it's not a big deal. I've been playing with the beta Safari and I think I'm going to switch soon. It loads pages noticably faster than Explorer. My brother-in-law is a diehard Windows user. I've seen him lose the entire contents of his hard drive three times. I want no part of that. I'll admit, he hasn't had that happen since installing XP, but it still seems he spends more time troubleshooting than he should have to. I will also concede that Windows is way ahead of everything else when it comes to compatibility, but I can honestly say, my Mac does everything I need it to. So what if I can't open the occasional e-mail containing an .exe file. So I might miss the California Raisins singing Proud Mary. Life goes on. If I was that concerned, I'd get SoftWindows or one of the other MS simulators. Ironically, one of the most used applications on my Mac is MS Office. Hmmm..... I sincerely hope that someday we'll all be able to interact seamlessly. Until then I'll be sticking with my Mac.
I think it all boils down to something like the Ford/Chevy thing. Both OS's have their strong and weak points. My truck's a Ford, the wife's car a Chevy....'nuf said.
BTW- Maybe I'm bias because a good friend of mine sells and services Macs. I did a custom oak kitchen counter in exchange for my first computer. :-) My apologies to Keith and Ken if it's inappropriate to plug his website, but it's www.themacsmith.com. Tell him I sent ya. :-)

[John Miliunas]

Hey Craig, it sounds like your "cookie" problem may be a caching issue. Recent or old pages are possibly being cached by either, you Web browser or you ISP. I don't know if it will work on the Mac side, but I think it should. The next time you come to one of those "old cookie" pages, hit your "Shift" key while hitting the "Refresh" button in IE or the "Reload" button in netscrape. That forces a fresh, non-cached page to come up. Let us know if that works. :cool:

[Paul Kunkel]

Originally posted by markus shaffer
so far, it seems i am possibly the sole mac user here.. well, somebody's gotta go against the grain, might as well be me.. laughs..

-markus :D There's a few of us here.

I amin the process of getting my 4th Mac-upggading from a G4 tower 400 to a new 17" Imac. 20 years of macs after being frustrated with the Dos system. Ya know what(it's a wood forum) knock on wood- never had a virus! Now don't get me wrong, I do use Norton and update regular. I also use Virtual PC, but not for the web. Only for the specifis programs that require it. You CAN have it all!:D

[Scott Purdy]

Craig:

Sounds like we have similar Macs. Mine's a rev D iMac (slot loading DVD), upgraded to 320 MB Ram and just installed an 80 Gig HD last month. I run Jaguar 10.2.5.

But, why I say all this is because you MUST make the leap to Safari. Explorer for the Mac is miserably slow, and Safari is just so much faster. In addition, it's minimalist on the screen, so more of the web pages show.

Purds

PS: Can I plug my first web site, for coaching? www.track.loomis.org

Of course, all done on a Mac (Dreamweaver software)

[Paul Kunkel]

Where's Brookline? 33 yrs from Oxford, Ct & Londonderry, VT Presently in a HOT(sometimes cold) high(8000ft) desert. Lota Pinyon here!

[Scott Purdy]

Hi, Paul.

Brookline is between Newfane and Grafton. All of 462 live there. I live on a campus in Connecticut during the school year, but my wife and I own a house up there (unfortunately, that's where the garage/shop is located as well).

I see you're a Vet. I'm not, but my father was in Vietnam when I was born. He was 27 years USAF enlisted.

Purds