Impact-resistant Safety Glasses

[Peter Aeschliman]

Since my recent tablesaw accident (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?170208-Kickback-Hurts!-(WARNING!-GORY-PICTURES!!)&highlight=), I've been thinking more about safety glasses.

When I had my injury, I was wearing safety glasses. But one of the things that blew me (and part of my forehead) away was how much force was generated by the piece of wood kicking back. My safety glasses are a simple pair that I picked up at the local hardware store for probably $15 or so. Something kind of like this (these aren't the exact models):

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202080156/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I have a hard time believing that my safety glasses would've withstood the impact. They maybe would've slowed the piece of wood down a little, but I'm convinced they would've broken and gotten into an eye, had the wood hit me there (thank God it didn't). The frames are flimsy and would easily shatter from such an impact.

Can you guys make any product recommendations for me, given that I want something that can withstand a kick-back like impact? I'd like to avoid a full face shield, and I hate goggle style glasses because they fog up. But if you guys tell me that's my only choice, I suppose that's what I'll do.

By the way, I learned a profound lesson from my injury. I'll never take that kind of risk again. The bloody piece of wood is hanging at eye level over my tablesaw and I've left the blood on the floor in the shop... pretty powerful reminders. But obviously accidents can happen and I want to be prepared.

Thanks in advance!

Peter

[Dan Friedrichs]

In the event you do decide to go with goggles, let me recommend these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003U9VE94

(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003U9VE94)I've tried a dozen different pairs of goggles and over-the-eyeglasses-style-safety-glasses, and found these to be great. Like you said, most goggles fog up (I even tried some special anti-fog sprays to try to fix that on other goggles - no luck), but this pair REALLY doesn't fog up. I'm amazed.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Those look really good actually. Thanks for the recommendation. Part of me realizes that goggles may be my only choice. since they are in constant contact with your face, they're more supported than regular glasses. If I can find a pair that doesn't fog up, this may be the way to go. Plus those are pretty cheap!

I think I need to read up on the impact rating system. In this case, the goggles you recommend are "ANSI Z87.1-2003" and "CSA Z94.3". I have no idea what that means, so time for some googling!

[daniel lane]

The 2003 standard included a high velocity impact standard separate from a basic impact, as does the 2010 standard. Look into ANSI Z87.1-2010 for more recent requirements, but the summary is it requires 20 samples with ZERO failures with a 1/4" steel ball impacting at 100+mph. If I recall correctly, the high impact standard is marked as "Z87+" on the frames themselves.

That said (and I am absolutely thrilled that you are doing well and were not permanently damaged, btw), I don't think any safety glasses would have helped you or will help you in a similar accident. There's a lot of mass behind a 18cu.in. block of wood (about half a pound, for maple), much more than a 1/4" steel ball. If you're really concerned, I'd consider the full face shield route, although I know you said you weren't thrilling on that. I use the Uvex Bionic face shield and am very pleased with it - comfortable, lightweight, and conforms to the high-impact standard. I've had very few issues with fogging, but I have had a mild issue once or twice. Typically it's because I'm turning and I've adjusted it to be very close, but you can adjust it many different ways and leave room for airflow to reduce or prevent fogging. (Or treat it with an anti-fog coating.)

Link to the bionic spec sheet: http://www.uvex.us/uploadedFiles/ProductConfiguration/ProductLiterature/Uvex_Bionic_DS_3pg.pdf



Regards,

daniel

[Charlton Wang]

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case for me. I have that exact pair of glasses but I find that they still fog up...I don't know why. I've tried so many pairs now that I'm thinking of getting prescription safety glasses but I surmise those won't fair any better than the pair that Peter had.

[Chris Parks]

Full face visor every time. No fogging glasses, no perspiration running over them etc. It saves the whole face from debris, I suspect a bit of wood through a cheek would not be nice or smashed teeth either.

[Carl Beckett]

Have you tried the full face?

The reason I ask is that I struggle with comfort and scratches and fogging of safety goggle/glasses (have tried many, and do part of my work in a lab as a living) But I started using the full face for certain work and have found it to be much more comfortable than the glasses (and I am frequently flipping it up or looking under the edge so I can 'see'

You might want to try one out and see how it works for you

[Jerome Hanby]

On a little tangent, anyone know of a brand of safety glasses that are more scratch proof? I've been buying these (http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2005943/18263/Fastcap-Safety-Glasses-Clear.aspx) Fastcap pairs from Woodcraft. I love the style and fit, but they end up scratched pretty quick, plus the latest versions are pretty flimsy compared to the ones I bought a few years ago. I'm assuming that I can't use jewellers rouge and a soft cloth to buff out scratches on these poly carb lenses. So some brand that is virtually impervious to scratches or with lenses that i can buff scratches out of would be perfect.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Most, if not all, safety glasses are poly carb. I don't know if they make a harder or softer pol carb that would be more scrtach resistant. I have a feeling the wood dust and cleaning clothed are responsible for a lot of the scratches I recived on my last pair of glasses.

I have worn prescription glasses for 25 years but converted to prescriptions safety glasses due to my current job about 7 years ago. I got really in to WWing about 5-7 years ago (you know what I mean, above and beyond home repair); two pairs of glasses ago. The first pair was damaged while shingling grandma's roof. The last pair I believe was damaged due to the wood dust. I thought I would take good care of them and clean them regularly using glasses wipes (both the wet prepack wipes and the dry cloth). Unfortunately I believe that scratched them even worse. For cleaning my current pair, I'm sticking with the old standby of liquid handsoap and water. Rinse, apply a half squit to each lens and rub with thumb and forefinger, then pat dry with a clean soft towel. I just pasted 2 years and have only one scratch to note but it wasn't caused by WWing or cleaning. Thank goodness for safety glasses!

[Chris Parks]

Once you get over the hurdle of actually trying a full face visor you will never go back to glasses. The visor has another practical answer to a problem, where did I put my safety glasses? The visor being large never gets lost and you mostly just flip it up and never remove it. Mind you for woodworking I don't find the need to wear a safety visor all that much, I always use it for metal work though, a must have as it saves the face from grinding debris etc. I would never wear just glasses for metal work, to me that is just asking to be injured.

Kick backs as the OP suffered can be largely negated by a half fence as is mandatory in Europe. I think they are mandatory these days but am willing to be set straight if I am wrong. Having a full fence does nothing for the accuracy of the cut.

[Tom Walz]

I just put the safety standards up on our blog.

http://blog.carbideprocessors.com/ (http://blog.carbideprocessors.com/)

Tom

[Jim Rimmer]

[EDIT] OOPS, just saw Tom's post that does have the specs.

******************

I looked at the specs on the HD link and those glasses were not ANSI approved. Look for ANSI Z87 on the ear piece for ANSI approved safety glasses. I couldn't get the standards specs without buying it but here's what it does:



ANSI/ISEA Z87.1-2010

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/Images/graphics/pdf_icon.gif (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/faq.aspx#pdf)



American National Standard for Occupational and Educational Personal Eye and Face Protection Devices






This standard sets forth criteria related to the general requirements, testing, permanent marking, selection, care, and use of protectors to minimize the occurrence and severity or prevention of injuries from such hazards as impact, non-ionizing radiation and chemical exposures in occupational and educational environments including, but not limited to, machinery operations, material welding and cutting, chemical handling, and assembly operations. Certain hazardous exposures are not covered in this standard. These include, but are not limited to: Bloodborne pathogens, X-rays, high energy particulate radiation, microwaves, radio-frequency radiation lasers, masers, and sports and recreation.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Wow, thanks for the information guys.

When I tell my friends and relatives about my injury (man, I've probably told the story 200 times now), many ask me why I wasn't wearing a face shield. Clearly that's the only way to really protect my face. The only tools in my shop that could cause this kind of injury to my face are probably the tablesaw and the router table. So maybe my routine should be to wear a full face shield while using those machines and regular safety glasses while using others.

The ANSI information is particularly helpful here. I will make sure that whatever I buy, it meets the highest impact safety standards.

[Greg Portland]

I'd like to avoid a full face shield, and I hate goggle style glasses because they fog up. But if you guys tell me that's my only choice, I suppose that's what I'll do.The 3M PPAR systems are very comfortable, offer high levels of protection but are also $$$. A full face mask is going to offer the best protection.

[daniel lane]

On a little tangent, anyone know of a brand of safety glasses that are more scratch proof?

Afraid I can't help, Jerome, but you reminded me that I wanted to mention that the Bionic face shield (~$30) has an easily replaceable insert, so once it gets scratched up a bunch, it's pretty cheap to replace (~$6) and you're good as new. Unless you want the anti-fog/hardcoat version, which is ~$15 (still fairly cheap for a 'new' face shield).


daniel

[Chris Parks]

So maybe my routine should be to wear a full face shield while using those machines and regular safety glasses while using others..

Peter, I am curious as to why you find the idea of a full visor a problem. Does anyone else find the idea something that they would not entertain, if so why? When they first appeared on the market I could not buy one quick enough. I am not trying to criticise here, I am genuinely interested. The only advantage of safety glasses I can and it is a good one is you can have them in a pocket so they are always with you.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Keep in mind the specifications or more directly, the testing. I scanned down through them. I didn't notice any testing with anything as large as a block of wood. I'm not sure what effect the full face shield or safety glasses would have if the wood had impacted them, using your specific case as an exemplar.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Peter, I am curious as to why you find the idea of a full visor a problem. Does anyone else find the idea something that they would not entertain, if so why? When they first appeared on the market I could not buy one quick enough. I am not trying to criticise here, I am genuinely interested. The only advantage of safety glasses I can and it is a good one is you can have them in a pocket so they are always with you.

Hi Chris,

I guess I just don't want to have a bulky thing hanging off my face/head while I'm working. I haven't tried a good full face shield before, but I just assume they're a bit more cumbersome. But they do provide the best overall protection, so I guess that's what I'll probably get.

[Bruce Elasik]

I bought a full face shield a month ago-- It actually allows you to concentrate better on what you are doing without being distracted by sawdust and chips hitting your face -making you squint--turning your head -- standing at an odd angle to avoid that chip that you know might get you in the face. Yeah-its more than just face protection

[Kevin W Johnson]

Hi Chris,

I guess I just don't want to have a bulky thing hanging off my face/head while I'm working. I haven't tried a good full face shield before, but I just assume they're a bit more cumbersome. But they do provide the best overall protection, so I guess that's what I'll probably get.

I believe you'll find in time, as i did with dust masks and respirators, that you get used to wearing it. My respirator even has a side benefit, it saves me from the gassy after effects of the previous nights dinner :eek:

[Jim Rimmer]

Keep in mind the specifications or more directly, the testing. I scanned down through them. I didn't notice any testing with anything as large as a block of wood. I'm not sure what effect the full face shield or safety glasses would have if the wood had impacted them, using your specific case as an exemplar.
+1 - ANSI Z-87 glasses probably won't offer full protection from a flying chunk of wood but would be preferable to allowing it to strike directly on an unprotected eye. The penetration test involves a weighted needle - not a flying missile.

[Don Jarvie]

The only thing that will stop a flying chunk of wood would be a goalie mask with a shield, not a cage. For flying wood you need the safety equipment to be able to absorb the impact of the wood and not transfer the impact to the equipment then to your face.

Looking at the bionic shield unless it can be secured to your head so when something large hits it, it won't push the shield back into your face, its not going to protect you when nothing will happen. You may not get cut but some bruising or bump will probably result.

If you want to protect your eyes then imact resistant goggles would be the best since they will be able to absorb the blow from the piece of wood.

[Dave Lehnert]

Any full face shield I looked at seemed to have thinner plastic than regular safety glasses do.

I remember in high school shop class a guy using a buffer to polish a shifter plate. He was wearing a full face shield. The buffing wheel caught the shifter plate and rammed it right through the face shield. I was looking right at him when it happened. I can remember the trail of blood on the floor.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Lol. thanks guys... it sounds like either it's a hockey mask or it's goggles.

I don't do any turning, but I find it strange that there aren't more durable face shields out there. If your workpiece flies off the chuck, it could really mess you up!

[Anthony Whitesell]

and unfortunately but there was recently a rash of lathe accidents that ranged from serious to deadly. I don't know much about lathes but I have noticed some are equiped with a metal cage (I assume it is for safety but I don't know).

[Paul Wunder]

+1 on the UVEX Bionic full face mask. It just arrived based on Daniel's recommendation. Fits beautifully; no distortion. My eyes are older and I wear full lineless progressive glasses. My ears are also older and I wear a pair of behind the ear hearing aids.

No interference with my glasses or hearing aids. Thanks Daniel. I bought the anti-fog and an extra shield as a spare.

[Shawn Pixley]

Two years ago, I had an injury playing soccer. Tore up my knee, mild concussion, and damage to my left eye. I don't see that well to begin with, so I got safety glasses that I can wear playing soccer, at construction sites, and in the shop. They are hard core impact resistant. I augment them with a full face shield when performing operations that cause splinters and chips to fly. The construction of my face shield is not nearly the quality of my glasses. I have shaded face shields to protect from the UV when working at the forge. Protect your eyes. I only takes a second to lose your sight.

[Dave Lehnert]

UVEX Bionic full face mask

Are the two in the links below the same? if so, LV is a bit on the expensive side.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=56669&cat=1,42207

$47.50 with anti fog shield.

http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/uvex-bionic-face-shield.html

$19.99+$10.00 anti fog shield. =$29.99

[John Lanciani]

I think that it is important to note here that even if you're wearing a face shield like the bionic you still need safety glasses under it. Right from the bionic spec sheet;



"*Face shield offers secondary protection and MUST be wornwith spectacles or goggles."


For me personally the lathe is the only machine in the shop that I'd even consider wearing one. I think that there may be some false security with a shield, they're not going to stop a kickback from doing serious damage.

[John Pratt]

After serving and retiring from the Army I became comfortable with the Army Ballistic glasses. They tend to be a little more expensive and I can't tell you the exact ballistic ratings, but mine have taken a beating for quite some time. The three major companies that service the Army is ESS, Wiley X, and Oakley. I prefer the Oakleys even though they are the most expensive of the three because they are more scratch resistant. I currently use the M Frame glasses with the ballistic clear lens. For some jobs around the shop, especially the lathe, I also wear the Bionic.

[Tom Walz]

Here is what Edge eyewear use for Ballistic test certification

Simulates a shotgun blast from 33 feet
150 ft/s (102 mph) ANSI Z87.1 +2010
640 ft/s (450 mph) Ballistic MIL-PRF 31013 3.5.1.1

Can’t speak for the others.

[Scott Sallyards]

Peter,

After years of just wearing drug store glasses so I could see the small stuff (a accident waiting to happen) I went to Sams Club vision and they have industry strength safety glasses, they were able to make them with the same strength that I had with the drug store glasses. They have side protectors on them and work very well. I'm glad I upgraded. They can customize safety glasses to your need.

Scott

[Josh Bowman]

I wear one of these Trend Pro's:
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/woodturners/Images/products/main/trend-pro.jpg
It protects my snoz, my head and my eyes and is comfortable to wear.

[Jerome Hanby]

Not the same thing at all, but by coincidence I finally recalled that Sam's sells 6 packs of safety glasses while I was actually in Sam's. Picked up a pack. Look about like the Fastcaps I've been buying at Woodcraft except these don't appear to be a flimsy as the last ones WC sold me. Must be the day for glasses, I also bought a pair of 3Ms that I like the look of while I was in HD buying a Ridgid 1450 vacuum.


Peter,

After years of just wearing drug store glasses so I could see the small stuff (a accident waiting to happen) I went to Sams Club vision and they have industry strength safety glasses, they were able to make them with the same strength that I had with the drug store glasses. They have side protectors on them and work very well. I'm glad I upgraded. They can customize safety glasses to your need.

Scott

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

I think that it is important to note here that even if you're wearing a face shield like the bionic you still need safety glasses under it. Right from the bionic spec sheet;



"*Face shield offers secondary protection and MUST be wornwith spectacles or goggles."


For me personally the lathe is the only machine in the shop that I'd even consider wearing one. I think that there may be some false security with a shield, they're not going to stop a kickback from doing serious damage.





+1 on wearing both. A face shield is designed to deflect splinters or small metal bits from your entire face/head but is not intended as high impact eye protection. As for a face shield being uncomfortable, I am willing to bet that you will get use to it the first time you wear it. They are fairly well balanced even when flipped up.

[Dave Lehnert]

Peter,

After years of just wearing drug store glasses so I could see the small stuff (a accident waiting to happen) I went to Sams Club vision and they have industry strength safety glasses, they were able to make them with the same strength that I had with the drug store glasses. They have side protectors on them and work very well. I'm glad I upgraded. They can customize safety glasses to your need.

Scott

What did a pair cost you?

[Jim Finn]

On a little tangent, anyone know of a brand of safety glasses that are more scratch proof? . I have Glass lenses in my safety glasses. (Bifocals) I chose glass because dust does not stick to them like it does plastic.