What would you do?

[Dave Novak]

Minimax has a fantastic reputation for customer service, so I don't intend this to be a thread that bashes them in any way. I'm simply looking for your advice regarding a shipping situation. I ordered a CU300 Smart combo machine. Minimax shipped it to St. Louis, roughly 100 miles from my house, and either they or the shipper contracted with another company to get it from St. Louis to Springfield IL (my home). The second shipper arrived at my home on Monday with a lift-gate truck. However, the truck was very small and the lift-gate was woefully inadequate to hold the crated machine. In addition, the pallet jack was located on the door-side of the crate and since the crate was too large to turn around in the truck, the lift gate would have to hold both the crate and the 18" or so of pallet jack that would have to stick out in front of it. I'm not sure why they even made the trip, because it was obvious to both me and the driver there was no way we were getting it out of the truck and onto the ground. He took it back to St. Louis.

Minimax called me today and suggested that I contract with a towing company with a tilting bed truck to drive to St. Louis, pick it up, and bring it to Springfield, at my expense. I'm really not sure how dragging the machine up and down the inclined bed of the tower would even work. Minimax offered to give me a break on accesories or tooling that I'll need in the future to offset my additional cost. This sounds like a royal PITA to me, increasing the risk of damaging the machine, and transfering that risk to me. I told minimax I'd look into it even though my initial reaction is to tell them to just take it back. If they take it back I'll ask Felder if they think they can get their combo delivered to my house.

Am I over-reacting?

[Aaron Berk]

I don't see any of this as being your problem.

You bought a machine and paid for delivery, or free delivery or what ever. But regardless you paid for something to show up at your door.
I don't see how you should be responsible for any coordinating of the delivery trucks.

The company that brought the wrong truck looks like the one at fault here. Or possibly the ppl who loaded it on the truck.
But that is for them to figure out not you.

If Minmax was to offer you the moon and stars, then I would weigh my options and think about getting involved with the shipping companies.

And as a side note... many machines have been successfully delivered by tilt bed wreckers. But I would make sure Minmax and the wrecker are aware of your damage concerns.

[Jeff Duncan]

Very generally speaking shippers are supposed to get something to your loading dock or curb, since the guy driving the truck couldn't do so, then it would seem they didn't fulfill the delivery. The fact that they showed up in a lift gate truck sounds like that was arranged for ahead of time so them not being able to get it to the ground seems to put the blame on them.

This sounds like the local delivery company really dropped the ball and doesn't want to take responsibility for their screw up. Mini Max should take the initiative to get on the phone and resolve this issue with that company. Though I would start by calling the delivery company myself as it sounds like it really was their fault. If they send a delivery truck in such a way that they can't make a delivery....well????

But of course this is all based on a lot of assumptions since we only have part of the story.

good luck,
JeffD

[Dave Novak]

I agree about the local delivery company dropping the ball. They claim it's in their largest truck, the crate is 82" long and the truck box was roughly 86" as there was almost no room on either side of it. They obviously used a fork lift to get it in then put the pallet jack in after it. I have no idea why they even drove to springfield since it was clearly not coming back out without a fork lift. Driver asked if I knew anyone with a fork lift. I couldn't help but laugh a litle inside. I just can't believe another larger truck isn't available in St. Louis.

I think I'm going to ask Minimax to just take it back. I don't really want to mess with finding someone willing to go get it, coordinating the whole thing, and then hoping me and the tow truck driver can get it off the tilt bed and into my garage without damaging it.

[Jerome Hanby]

Sounds like you are under-reacting. You should have told them to get it delivered as contracted, refund your money, or expect to be dunned by your credit card company...

[Jim Matthews]

Premium prices merit premium service.

[David Kumm]

I would contact a good moving company and find out the cost and talk to MM about how to pay for it. I agree it should be their problem but using the hauler of my choice rather than the one who gave MM the cheapest price would give me some peace of mind. A felder machine might come through the same shipper. Dave

[richard poitras]

I would just state I would like the machine but if you can’t deliver as contracted then you will go else were with your money. Also I would ream them some and state that the more you thought about it the more you really don’t want to do business with a company who tries to put the problem on to the customer now or later possible for warranty work and if they want your business they now have made you mad and have to get the unit to you and discount it for your hassle and inconvenience of waiting how many weeks for a machine they can’t deliver and also the time you spent from leaving work to meet the driver.

Basically slam the ball back in their court if they want to play that game. Not to mention it is going to cost them even more to ship it back to their facilities.

They’re the ones that will lose not you. They are trying to play on your emotions of a new shinny tool and hope you jump.

[Cary Falk]

You paid for a tool and delivery. Since they did not deliver it, you can give the the choice of delivering it on their dime or give you a refund.

[Ron Bontz]

"You paid for a tool and delivery. Since they did not deliver it, you can give the the choice of delivering it on their dime or give you a refund. " +1 Just out of curiosity. How much does this thing weigh and how big is it? Too big for a pick up bed? I have always had any large item I bought shipped to a terminal in St. Louis and then had them put it in my truck for me to bring home. If something like that would work for you, then of course you would deserve a refund of some sort. Best of luck to you.

[Phil Thien]

I'd get the weight and size, then call around (locally) and find someone that can bring a forklift out, provided there is one large enough to handle it (I have no idea how big this machine is).

I'll bet you could have the thing picked and dropped for $100 to $150.

Make MM pay or give you enough stuff in exchange to offset the cost.

[Dave Novak]

I'd get the weight and size, then call around (locally) and find someone that can bring a forklift out, provided there is one large enough to handle it (I have no idea how big this machine is).

I'll bet you could have the thing picked and dropped for $100 to $150.

Make MM pay or give you enough stuff in exchange to offset the cost.

Exactly what I did. They're briningg it back on Monday, I'll let you know how it works out. It still rubs me wrong that I had to figure it out; I'm not sure what uniquly qualifys an accountant with a woodworking hobby to coordinate the delivery - I would guess Minimax has been down this road before. Had I not already booked a trip to Austin TX for a 2 day class learning how to get the most out of my new toy I probobly would have punted.

[David Kumm]

Accountants with a woodworking hobby can do anything. Dave Kumm CPA

[Jeff Monson]

Accountants with a woodworking hobby can do anything. Dave Kumm CPA

I'm sure its alot easier to get machinery purchases past the better half. The way you guys manipulate numbers and all.....just saying.

[David Kumm]

Jeff, You just have to remember the jewelry upcharge in the cost. Dave

[Jeff Monson]

Jeff, You just have to remember the jewelry upcharge in the cost. Dave

Dave, I have not introduced jewelry into my woodworking endevour yet, I'm holding that card until I want something REALLY nice. I'm still playing the "I need this tool to make that really nice ________ you have always wanted" card. Still working, dont fix something that ain't broke right?

[David Kumm]

Jeff, you are obviously younger than I. Price goes up with age. The day the carpenters showed up to move the garage wall so I could put more machines in, my wife said " tennis bracelet?" You are on borrowed time. Dave

[Phil Thien]

It still rubs me wrong that I had to figure it out.

Years from now you're going to be using the machine and realize what a wise purchase it was. And you'll think of the extra trouble you went through getting the unit delivered and chuckle at getting worked up about it.

[Philip Duffy]

Why don't you start by suspending the payment with your credit card company, and then see how the seller of the MM likes that? Perhaps when you have their attention with this move they will come to understand the ethics of the situation more clearly. Philip

[phil harold]

Jeff, you are obviously younger than I. Price goes up with age. The day the carpenters showed up to move the garage wall so I could put more machines in, my wife said " tennis bracelet?" You are on borrowed time. Dave

You obviously trained your wife wrong...



just kidding

[michael case]

Got to admit, I was amazed they even suggested that YOU pay for the redelivery. I hope it works out. Dumping it for a Felder sure sounds tempting to me though.

[Joseph Tarantino]

Am I over-reacting?

no, you are not overreacting.

[David Kumm]

You guys are being a little tough on MM considering the info we have. The shipper is the one who screwed up. Both the buyer and seller will end up worse for it. That's life. The MM customer service person should have checked out the story with the shipper before committing to anything and then worked out a solution with his boss rather than giving a half ass credit for goods. Anyone with employees knows they can make some dumb decisions- as can bosses- so abandoning good equipment is the last resort. I sympathize with the buyer but also realize that there are lots of cases where curbside lift gate delivery creates problems. Driveway too steep, too narrow, too curved, on and on, so it is reasonable for the company to check things out before solving the problem. A buyer needs to work with the seller reasonably before pulling the plug. I'm not criticizing the buyer here, but rather some of the responses. Dave

[Kevin Presutti]

If your roof leaks and you pay someone to come and put a new roof on it and the new roof leaks then you are no farther ahead than you were before, plain and simple. That said, delivery was paid for, promised, whatever, it was part of the the agreement when the unit was purchased. MM now has the money agreed upon buy both the seller and the purchaser, you however have no machine delivered. They have breached their end of the agreement, simple as that. They either honor the agreement or they owe you big time. Discounts...bah. They owe you for the time, inconvienience, and any $$ you have spent. They would not stop hearing from me until they made it right. Stop the payment to them, that will get their attention (or at least it should), when they call just keep asking to speak to their supervisor until you get past they the first few layers of phone jockeys, when they find out they tried to pass the problem on to you thing generally start to happen rapidly. It works but you have to have your game face on and don't let up until they offer something that is agreeable to you and you can live with. Best of Luck!

[Jim O'Dell]

I'd say it wasn't MM's fault. Although they are involved since they directly, or possibly indirectly, hired the delivery companies. I say possibly indirectly because they may have contracted with the company that got it to St Louis, then that company may have contracted with the people that brought it to you. MM should have offered to do some of the leg work to facilitate the arrival of the tool, but it is the last moving company that is liable for getting it to you. They took the job, they need to figure out how to make it work.
My guess is that they loaded the pallet jack first, then loaded the unit. Used a loading dock and just drove it into the truck. Getting it down was an after thought. Should have loaded the unit first, then the jack. Jim.

[Dave Lehnert]

A truck driver is only responsible to get the unit to the tail of the truck. To get it off is up to you. The driver may have a lift gate and help but not required. Now if you paid for lift gate service ,that's a whole different story.
Dealing with a trucking company is no way like buying a refrigerator from Lowe's and having them deliver it.

[jonathan eagle]

A truck driver is only responsible to get the unit to the tail of the truck. To get it off is up to you. The driver may have a lift gate and help but not required. Now if you paid for lift gate service ,that's a whole different story.
Dealing with a trucking company is no way like buying a refrigerator from Lowe's and having them deliver it.

This is absolutely correct . If you paid for lift gate service, then MM is completely responsible to arrange this and pay for it. PERIOD. If lift gate was not paid for, sounds like MM tried to help out. It would be good to know.

[David Kumm]

We need more info here. Often when buying equipment the seller will arrange shipping for the buyer but that doesn't necessarily mean he keeps responsibility beyond his dock. We need to know if the buyer purchased the machine delivered to his ground or OBO with MM arranging the shipping on his behalf. That would establish whose responsibility it is to fix. Dave

[Phil Thien]

Hey guys, he found a solution, he is getting a lift truck to get it off the back of the truck. Problem solved.

Shipping big tools is tricky business. The shipper is often many hundreds of miles away. They pay a shipper to get it to the customer. But a lack of a adequate receiving facilities (dock) complicates matters.

We could pay for some sort of white glove delivery ($$$), or just jump the hurdles as they appear.

But there isn't really a need to assign blame. Soon he will have his tool, it will be great, lesson learned.

[Tony Zaffuto]

It sounds to me that the second shipper gave a somewhat misleading statement to Minmax about the delivery. Did you make any suggestions to the second driver to abort the delivery attempt? If you contract with a tilt bed truck, you and the trucker are assuming the liability in the event of damage. The tilt bed may work, but it would depend upon the truck, the trucker as well as how well the machine is crated and what happens to the machine once it lands on the ground--remember, a tilt bed is used for hauling cars that have rubber tires to assist in the roll-off.

If this were me, I would tell Minmax to make the arrangements and if they won't, cancel the purchase.

[Dave Novak]

"Years from now you're going to be using the machine and realize what a wise purchase it was. And you'll think of the extra trouble you went through getting the unit delivered and chuckle at getting worked up about it." Well said Phil, I'm sure you are correct.

Just to clarify, I asked and paid for lift-gate delivery at my home and that fact is clearly noted on the invoice. Further, this is a cut/paste from Minimax's terms and conditions that they emailed me -

2. SHIPMENTS. All shipments are made F.O.B. your location, and the costs of packing and shipment are included in the quoted price.

[Dave Novak]

Piece of cake. I think I'll hire a forklift the next time I'm fortunate enough to receive anything this big. I had it delivered to a house I'm in the process of buying, but won't close on until late this month. It kills me that it will be so long before I really get to set it up and fire it up. My garage doesn't even have 220 service yet, so it's going to sit idle for quite a while. Thanks for your thoughts regarding "what I should do".209032209033

[jonathan eagle]

Dave,
Now we know you paid for lift gate service, and MM dropped the ball.
Doesn't reflect well on MM at all as far as customer service!
Jonathan



"Years from now you're going to be using the machine and realize what a wise purchase it was. And you'll think of the extra trouble you went through getting the unit delivered and chuckle at getting worked up about it." Well said Phil, I'm sure you are correct.

Just to clarify, I asked and paid for lift-gate delivery at my home and that fact is clearly noted on the invoice. Further, this is a cut/paste from Minimax's terms and conditions that they emailed me -

2. SHIPMENTS. All shipments are made F.O.B. your location, and the costs of packing and shipment are included in the quoted price.

[Mike Heidrick]

http://davidpbest.com/Publications.htm

The unofficial survival guide by david p best is an awesome book for euro combo/shapers/saws. Would be a good read on the flight to Austin and while you wait for the new shop. It was written for Felder equip but has soo many great tips and info. Great book imo.