Space Bags for Veneering...or Urban Legend??

[joseph j shields]

Hi,

I just bought a bunch of awesome veneer at the Milwaukee Wood Show:)

Now I have to learn how to veneer:rolleyes:

I have heard that you can use Space Bags (http://www.totalvac.com/spacebags.htm?ovchn=GGL&ovcpn=SpaceBags&ovcrn=space+bags&ovtac=PPC)to create a veneer vacuum press.

It seems like it would work.... put your pieces iin the bag. Seal it up & attach it to your vacuum (or shop vac)

And you can get a 36"x48" bag for about $10.

Is this just urban legend???
Or is this possible????
Has anyone tried it????

Thanks

-jj

[Steve Cox]

I have not tried it but my understanding is that a shop vac will not pull enough vacumn to veneer properly. However, the bag itself would probably work if you added a valve to it and used a shop vac to pull most of the air out and then used a pump (or venturi) to pull it the rest of the way down. I'd be very interested to hear from others have tried this as the bag would be great to use.

[Bill Arnold]

JJ,

Do an "Advanced Search" (above -- click search, then advanced). Enter "space bag" and it will bring up several threads on the subject.

Regards,

[lou sansone]

I have a "regular vacuum" bag which is pretty thick ( forget the thickenss at this time ), even with a thick bag you can get holes on it by sharp corners on what you are working on. I would say that if you try the space bags, you will have to place some other plastic over the surface in order to prevent holes in it.

As far as how much pressure can be exerted by a vacuum cleaner I would have to say not very much compared to a real vacuum pump that will take you down to 28 in hg. hey give it a try let us know how it works

[Richard Wolf]

I'm sure the space bag will work. People have made vacuum bags from 3mm ploy. The problem will be the vacuum. It will have to run constantly to hold a vacuum and will burn itself out by the time the glue sets.

Richard

[Dan Gill]

I'm sure the space bag will work. People have made vacuum bags from 3mm ploy. The problem will be the vacuum. It will have to run constantly to hold a vacuum and will burn itself out by the time the glue sets.

RichardSpace Bags have a one way valve. Otherwise they wouldn't be any good for storing blankets, sweaters, etc. in a smaller space. You just vacuum out the air and the valve closes.

I have seen results of this on one of these forums. Hopefully I'll get a better response here. I pointed out this same thing once on Woodnet and got flamed for it. No accounting for some folks.

[Keith Christopher]

I can tell you that this works. I tested this and had excellent results. TWICE. If you round the corners on your cawls and make a good platen you will not have holes. I had a standard 6gal Shop Vac brand shop vac.


1) make sure the zipper seal is all the way across, I mean completely
2) round your corners of your cawls so not to puncture the bag.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14713 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14713&highlight=space+bag)

Here is my post about this. The first one I did was a bubinga quilted veneer. the second was a nice makore veneer. They are both still in GREAT shape and firmly and flatly attached.

Keith

[joseph j shields]

Keith,

Thanks for the info...

I read on "other" forums where "experts" spouted out that it would never work.

Nice to get info from someone who actually tried it.... what a concept :)

I've only been a SMC memebr for a week or so... And its a real joy to see no flamers, trolls, "experts" who don't know jack...... Its a real treat to be here :)

Thanks again!

I guess I'll be watch late nite infomercials for a deal on Space Bags :o

-jj

[Keith Christopher]

Keith,
...I read on "other" forums where "experts" spouted out that it would never work.

Nice to get info from someone who actually tried it.... what a concept :)

I've only been a SMC memebr for a week or so... And its a real joy to see no flamers, trolls, "experts" who don't know jack...... Its a real treat to be here :)

Joseph,

WELCOME to the creek ! You know the thing about "experts" is there is always one in every crowd. If I remember correctly it was medical experts that told Dr. Blalock he could never perform surgery on the human heart successfully. Think where we'd be now if he hadn't tried.

It may not have worked, but without trial; one can never say for certainty.

If you get yours and try it, be sure and post pictures. There is a "rapid response unit" division of the pic police here even in the absence of Capt Tyler. :)


Keith

[Michael Perata]

Keith

From your experience with the Space Bags, do you think it possible to cut the valve off and put in on thick mil poly, and do you know of a source for similar valves?

[Keith Christopher]

Keith

From your experience with the Space Bags, do you think it possible to cut the valve off and put in on thick mil poly, and do you know of a source for similar valves?

Michael,

So you want to patch the bag and put on a different valve ? According to the spacebag WWW site, the bags are 2.2 mil vinyl. Most veneering bags are 20-30mil. This while working for me leads to the conclusion that they will not last long. I would imagine you could do this. Joewoodworker.com sells valves for poly/vinyl bags. I don't see why you couldn't. I would go light on the HH-66 as it "welds" the vinyl together and this thin it will most likely "melt" over weld.

Keith

[Michael Perata]

Keith

I think the other way - I would suggest cutting the "vacuum clearner" valve off the Space Bag and use it for a heavier poly bag.

[Keith Christopher]

Keith

I think the other way - I would suggest cutting the "vacuum clearner" valve off the Space Bag and use it for a heavier poly bag.
Hmm it could be done. but like I said the bag is only 2.2mil vinyl.


Keith

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Joseph, I too was tempted by the veneer booth!! It was getting a LOT of attention!! :) I am now wondering whether I should have picked up some veneer.

[joseph j shields]

Hey Jeff,

For the price.. it was a no brainer...

I got 10 bundles + 3free for $100 for about $7.50 per bundle.

I figure I can learn how to veneer & the mistakes won't cost too much.

Plus, the stuff was awesome.

I was talking to Dave (at the veneer booth) and did you notice the birds-eye maple that was dyed red, gray & tan.... well the story is (according to Dave) these were surplus... they were for a castle in Europe that is being rebuild.

-jj

ps... what did you think of the show??????????????

[Earl Kelly]

jj, I believe the space bag will work , however your bag longevity will be fairly short. I use a 30 mil poly bag mine's 10 yrs. old. 30 mil vinyl will not even last that long. If you want to do it on the cheap get some clear vinyl from an upholstery supplier or fabric store and make your own bag.

Do you know the company or person that had the dyed birdseye? I've been looking for some red or wine colored and haven't been able to locate a deal on any.

Good luck with your veneering, the more you do the easier it gets. Lots of good info on the web take advantage of it.

[Bill Arnold]

... If you want to do it on the cheap get some clear vinyl from an upholstery supplier or fabric store and make your own bag. ...
:) Well, I'm still partial to my shower curtain bag. :D

[Earl Kelly]

Yep, Bill, my BIL made a bag from a shower curtain. He uses his to laminate lightweight fiberglass on to shaped foam wings for remote control gliders. He also made his vacuum pump from a refrigerator compressor.

[joseph j shields]

Hey Earl,

Thanks for info....

I think I want to start on the cheap... see if I like it...& if I can do it.

Here is my first idea for a veneering project:

I'm making 2 shaker jelly cabinets (1 for the church auction & 1 for my kids school action)

The 1 cabinet is made from quarter sawn hard maple the other walnut.

The doors are simple flat panel insets.

I'm thinking about using bloodwood or sapelli veneer for the door inserts for the maple piece & either birds-eye or tiger maple with the walnut cabinet.

So I'll just be veneering square pieces (9"x20") of 1/4" baltic plywood (IS this a good material for this purpose:confused::confused::confused::confused::co nfused:

Any how.....

Here is the veneer guy info....

Veneer Specialites
Portland, IN
765-760-0355
(No web site)

Tell him (Paul is his name...he seems like a nice guy!) you want the Milwaukee Show Special....

His normal price was $20 per pack.... Any species!

Show Special was $10 per pack and
Buy 5 get 1 extra free
Buy 10 get 3 extra
(I bought 10 got 3 extra...13 packs for $100 or $7.69 each pack)!!!!!

He did have a lot of the red dyed (more of red wine color...not fire truck fire) birds-eye maple. Real nice stuff. Alot of the birds-eye had some very nice quilting as well.

Hope this helps!


-jj

[Dee Dee Martin]

I hope you got to the veneer guy before I did. Cuz I cleaned out all 3 of his tables. Seriously, I told him to shut down, and I'll take it all. He even delivered it for me, since like a big dummy, I didn't bring my truck to the show. But, then I didn't plan on buying that much, either.

I can't tell you what I paid, but I'm like a kid in a candy store now. Some of the burls are stunning.

As soon as my wife finishes programming my shopping cart, I'll be posting it on my website storefront. Not sure I'm allowed to post URL's here, so I won't.

Paul and I hung out for quite a while at my place... He said he only sells at the shows. Keeps things simple, and clean....and the phone from ringing off the hook.

-DD

[Bill Arnold]

... As soon as my wife finishes programming my shopping cart, I'll be posting it on my website storefront. Not sure I'm allowed to post URL's here, so I won't. ...-DD
DD,

You can put your website URL in your profile.

[Garnet Foster]

This may work better
http://woodcraftmagazine.com/articles/article.aspx?id=2
I purchased one of these kits and it worked for me. Only complaint is that it takes a little getting used to opening up the seal after pressing.