From Logs to Lumber with a Hand Saw

[Alex Ciccone]

Hello! I have searched for the answer to this question for a while- to no avail!

I have some SMALL Black Locust logs I want to mill into boards. The dimensions are something like 1' length, 7" diameter. Pretty tiny.

I am wondering what saw to use. I used an all purpose saw to cut one board, and it took about 25 minutes to cut a 1" board. Someone suggested I use a buck saw, but I don't know how I would use it on larger logs because the top bow is too thick.

Would a rip hand saw do it? Something like the one made by Pax?

Also, if I am cutting hardwood, will it dull the blade quickly? Thanks for any help you guys can offer!

Alex

[george wilson]

Unless you want a Herculean workout,I suggest you use a chain saw. The only CORRECT handsaw I can think of is a 1 man log saw. It is like a large,long,flat bladed rip saw,but has the tall teeth and rakers of a 2 man logging saw,but with 1 handle. Then,you have the problem of how to clamp the log. In the Diderot Encyclopedia,there is shown a special clamping device for holding small logs vertically for sawing veneer from them. If I had to do that job though,I'd just use a chainsaw. Of course,I'm too old to be ripping locust logs by hand.

[Alex Ciccone]

Where might I find a saw like this?
I can't use a chainsaw because: I don't have a way to clamp the wood, I'm in a residential place.

As for clamping... I know it's not proper, but I just held the wood vertically against a concrete block and sawed away. Being precise is not an issue, as I have access to a plethora of power tools to plane it down. I just don't have access to them NOW (I'm at school) and I'd like to dry this wood.

Thanks for the advice!

[Jim Matthews]

Black locust is pretty hard stuff, 1700 or so on the Janka scale.
The only domestic hardwood I know of that's tougher is Ash, and that's often used for benches.

If you intend to work a log by hand, you'll need to rive off sections by splitting, first.
This can be done with a mallet and wooden "gluts" - I would use something made of oak, to take the abuse you'll dish out.

Once you have the logs quartered, you should be able to saw through with a blade filed to "rip" - fewer teeth to bind, bigger 'gullets' between the teeth to sweep chips out of the way for the next tooth on your saw.
As George has intimated, this is a VERY strenuous task, and it will require that you firmly hold each section while sawing.

This could be done with some facility by using a bow saw, but that's additional expense.
For what my opinion is worth - I would find someone with a powered bandsaw to cut locust - it's very tough going.

jim
wpt, ma

[Alex Ciccone]

Well I guess that's why it's so hard, I didn't realize it was significantly harder than Ash. I'm not familiar with a glut. Are you talking about using a wedge to split the wood? I don't have enough wood to quarter saw it, I was planning to saw through and through.

I don't have a ripping saw. Would I be better to buy a ripping saw or a bow saw? Again the problem with a bow saw is the bow... It would get in the way after 5" or so of sawing.

[Mike Siemsen]

This link will take you to a blog post about the type of saw you would need to do this by hand.
http://schoolofwood.com/node/59
this next one shows a riven log
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/articleindex/the-best-oak-money-cant-buy
with a 7" diameter "log" I would just knock the bark off and run it across the jointer and make a square block, then use the table saw or bandsaw to mill it up.

[Steve Friedman]

Alex,

I have tried this on much larger pieces and you really need a frame saw (the one with the blade in the center). There's a reason people use bandsaws for resawing and a frame saw is the closest thing to that. The problem with a traditional rip handsaw (I think) is that the saw blade is tapered, so the back of your saw will get stuck in the kerf.

That said, I have done this with a traditional hand saw, but it needs to be a properly sharpened (I send mine out) rip saw with the correct PPI? I think the PPI should be as low as you can manage without struggling. If the log is really dry, it may be more efficient to use a 7 or 8 PPI saw than one that's 4 or 5 PPI and intended for green wood. Theoretically it will cut slower, but you'll never get a 4 PPI saw through dry hard wood.

Another factor is that you only have 4 cuts left (you already made one and you'll lose some to the kerfs) so you only have 2 hours to go. Think of it as woodworking gym. That said, there are other options:

1. Use two different rip saws - one with a thicker sawplate than the other. The thickest part of the thinner plate needs to be thiner than the kerf of the thinner plate saw. Start with the thicker saw until it starts to bind (probably 2-3" deep). Then use the thinner saw until it starts to bind. Flip the board over and repeat from the other side. Hopefully you meet in the middle. This is what I do and I'm usually cutting through logs that are at least 2' long. My thicker saw is an old docking saw that has been sharpened into a 5 PPI rip saw. My thinner saw is a D115 with 6 PPI. It works!

2. Use the biggest rip saw you can get (28" or 30") and instead of sawing vertically, saw horizontally, since it's only 7" that way (6" now that you've already cut off 1"). If you're lucky, you'll get all the way through without binding. Otherwise, go 1/2 one way and 1/2 the other way. I've done this too and it does work. hard part is staying straight.

3. If the log isn't too dry and if the black locust has straight grain, you could use a froe to split the log into billets and then clean them up with a scrub plane. This is (by far) the easier method if possible!

Good luck. Post pictures.

Steve

[David Weaver]

I have resawed stuff that large with a carpenter's saw. I couldn't tell you why I did it because I have a bandsaw that does a nice job resawing.

You should be able to slice it all up with a rip saw before you have to think about resharpening. I haven't had issues with binding other than when trying to make two partial cuts (that aren't perfectly straight) meet each other.

that said, i have a locust log - it cracked like crazy when it dried. Someone told me their husband had been a turner and they had tons of wood he hadn't turned yet and "did I want some of the turning wood". A locust log is what they brought...no wonder it hadn't been used! If I ever want to resaw it, I will chain saw it or resaw it on the bandsaw.

Great for fenceposts and firewood is what I can say about it. Hopefully it isn't a 7" thick piece of branch.

(don't spend your money on a pax rip saw for this, at least I wouldn't. If I had an extra rip saw I didn't want, I'd sell it to you for this, but if this is a one-time deal, I think you're better off splitting this thing if it's straight and seeing what you get out of it).

[Alex Ciccone]

Thanks for the advice guys.

The only think I am worried about is if the froe can take it (will hitting it with a mallet be enough? Or will I need to use a hammer?). Might it be worth just using a metal wedge? The pieces won't be very clean, but like I said I can plane it with a jointer/planer at a friend's shop (back home).
I might hurcules another board out just to make sure I have at least a few good boards. The eventual plan is to make a small box.

David, the wood is from a branch, does that change anything? The grain is quite even if that's what you're referencing?

All said and done I will try and find someone who has a bandsaw where I am now, but not I'll do it by hand. I'm just soaking the blocks in water until I know what to do with them. Yes I know it slows drying by like 250% but I have time.

Thanks for putting up with my beginner questions! The only woodworking I've done is making a cedar stripped canoe, which is FAR different from trying to transform logs into lumber. I have A LOT to learn yet!

I'll keep you guys posted on what ends up happening.

[David Weaver]

Branch wood can supposedly be erratic, which has been enough to keep me from using it for anything other than turning, so I don't know how erratic it may be when it dries. I'm sure there have been pieces of wood that came out of branches that didn't twist, and if it was softer, it might make for interesting spoons.

It's just another stroke against he effort is what i'm getting at.

I wonder if it would make a good mallet, or if it's too splintery...lots of it where I grew up, but it's in the ground as fence posts.

[george wilson]

I didn't recommend splitting,because it might not split cleanly,and you waste the wood. Especially with branch wood which has stresses in it.

[Bill Moser]

I just was going to suggest a chainsaw with a granberg alaskan mkIII when I reread your post. For that length, pretty much any rip saw will work fine, but it will still be *work*. After your initial experience, now you know why people use bandsaws for resawing -- I wish I had one :). I can't resaw anything at the moment. Pulled pretty much all my back muscles last week hand-rolling a 250lb maple log into place to cut up w/ the mk III. I even have a cant hook, just to dumb to go back to the car to get it :(

[Jim Matthews]

That's the article!

FYI - I've done this with white oak - on MUCH longer logs.
It's difficult to do this without waste. The wooden wedges are necessary to prevent splintering the log as you go.
Metal wedges will do to get started, but they will "bruise" the sides as you go along.

[Alex Ciccone]

I just "hurculezed" another board. This one took 30 minutes, no sapwood involved. I used a web clamp to keep the wood attached to a post. Worked quite well!
208731208732

[ray hampton]

using the web clamp to hold the log is a good idea, saw down the log so far then drive a wedge into the saw cut and use another web clamp above the saw, but there is no way that I would attempt to saw this hard wood without a power saw