Advice on very large butcher block countertop for island

[Michael Koons]

We are in the process of remodeling our kitchen and we are investigating replacing the currently planned granite countertop in our new island with a maple butcher block style top. The island will be 12' by 6'. There's no way I plan on making 12' long pieces, so I'm planning on building it using random length pieces ranging from 2' to 6'. The reason for this is I don't think I'd be able to joint boards 12' long and get them dead straight.

I've never built a butcher block before but I've looked at the construction techniques and feel pretty confident I can pull this off. I jointed, planed and ripped about 20 boards last night, got them 2" thick and 1 1/2" wide and they're dry fitting together very well. I plan on assembling, glueing and clamping this together on site. I'm guessing I won't glue up the pieces where the end grain meets (butted together along the length). Once assembled, I intend to sand out any seams in the joints and then fine sand and finish the assembled unit.

Any advice or pitfalls to watch out for as I take on this project? Anything I've left out that I need to consider? Since this is my first time doing this, I'd like to get a lot opinions from folks with more expertise than I.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

[Chris Fournier]

I think that you may be inviting trouble with your proposed plan. That is indeed a very large glue up - which I would not call a butchers block because it is not end grain.

Is it possible that you could inset a smaller wooden surface (3' X 6') in your island, much like a stove into a counter top? Could half of your island be wood and half granite?

I would not use butt joints like you are suggesting but rather I would scarf two boards together to get the lengths required - glued solidly with no place to accumulate bacteria.

My thoughts.

[Jamie Buxton]

You have to look out for assembling the pieces into a top that's cupped or warped. You'll need a big flat assembly table that glue won't stick to. Perhaps you can put melamine-covered particle board on top of your island cabinetry.

[John Lanciani]

What catches my eye in the plan is that you want to assemble and sand this in place. How do you plan to manage the glue up to keep it reasonably flat and square? if you dont get the glue up perfect you're looking at lots of hours of sanding and a huge volume of dust. Are you tooled up to handle that part of the job? Are you confident that you can sand it flat, not just smooth?

Do you have enough clamps? I'd figure on 24 clamps for a 12' glue up of this type.

Are you comfortable using plastic resin glue? PVA will be virtually impossible if you're intending to glue this up in one shot.

I've done many wood countertops for clients, some almost this size, and I would never, ever, consider doing one on site.

Just for kicks, have you calculated the weight of the finished piece? How will you handle it? - Edit; I just did, it will weigh 400 lbs if it is 1.5" thick or 525 lbs if it is 2".

I truly wish you the best if you proceed, this is a very adventurous project.

[Michael Koons]

Thanks guys. Jamie, agree with the large table and like the melamine idea.

Here's a picture I found. It represents what I'm thinking about. Of course, mine's a tad bigger.
208498

[johnny means]

Micheal, I would advise your to build your top in the shop. Its a lot easier to move something like that than it is to fabricate in a hostile environment. If you absolutely cannot move the whole thing, build it in two or maybe three parts. I mill my lumber top and sides leaving the bottom rough. After gluing into finished size planks, I plane it down to final thickness with the last pass being a light kiss on the top. This process allows me to ignore any wany boards or minor misalignments in my glue up. Dry assemble in the shop with dowels, dominos, a tight fitting spline or some other accurate registration method. Do all your sanding and leveling in the shop. Dogbones are my go to fastener for these type jobs. Dissamble then assemble in place. A quick pass with the ROS should take care of any minor misalignment, then finish with your favorite finish.

[Trent Shirley]

One question I do not know the answer to, could the thickness be as little as 1" and the top still stable enough to remain flat? You could save a lot of money on the material if you made the top thinner with 2" edge banding. It would be a heck of a lot lighter as well.
As was stated above you can do your glue up in stages so you end up with several final pieces to glue together once in place if you choose to assemble on site. If the glued top was too uneven for easy flattening it would be easy to use a router ski over the top to flatten it out then you can sand it smooth.

Most tops I have seen are not face up but edge up so the edge grain is exposed with the face grain all glued together making it a lot cheaper to put together smaller thinner boards than trying to buy thick wide ones and you can more easily work around defects by trimming small amounts until you are into good wood again or cuttons so the defects end up in the middle of a face that will not show.

[Jerry Marcantel]

Michael, if you are going to use random widths, rip all your wood, and for each width, dowel the ends until you have a 12 foot lenght. When you have all the boards glued and doweled, rip them to clean up any discrepencies encountered when doweling the ends. Also, if you have a planer, run them through it to get an even surface.
After you've got the boards cleaned up, put them together, mark for more dowels and the drill the edges. When you have 2-3 boards together, set them aside and do 2-3 more. When you have the riquired width, run each piece through the planer again to get flat surfaces. After that, mark the several peices, take them inside, dowel the edges needing dowels and make your glue up in place. There will not be much sanding to do to even up your surface as the dowels and planing did most of the alignments prior to assembly.... Let me know what you think of that idea........Jerry (in Tucson)

[Michael Koons]

Thank you all very much for the thoughts. It's extremely valuable and greatly appreciated.

I am rethinking assembly based on your feedback. The problem is that the new kitchen is in our vacation home which is 100 miles away from my shop. I do have a large pick up truck to transport it but strapping a 12'x6' counter on the roof is scary to me. But maybe I do partial assembly and transport 12'x2' or 12'x3' sections up.

My planer is only a 13" portable planer, but I could assemble this in 12" - 13" sections, plane each down to a common depth and then assemble the 5 or 6 sections on site.

[Matt Meiser]

I'm wondering if you built up the sections, then used something like biscuits, Dominoes, or a stopped spline to align the sections to each others if you might not be able to do a successful glue-up on site. You could test fit everything and leave the final gluing until you get it there. You'll probably still have a fair bit of sanding to do, but you shouldn't have any major misalignments.

Or, just rent a trailer for a weekend.

[Peter Quinn]

Glue it up near the floor on stand offs that allow you to get your clamps under it. Plastic on the floor to catch squeeze. Use dowels to align shorts to make up your 12' lengths. Make as many sections as you can in your shop as wide as you can fit through your planer, or make them in two 3' wide sections and get those to a shop with a wide belt. We do this for people all the time where I work, I'm sure there is a shop near you that may also if you inquire. Many commercial shops have 24" spiral planers which would let you do this in 3 2' sections as another option.

Use cauls, biscuit, splines, dominos, dowels, what ever you are comfortable with to manage alignment of the sub sections. You can use PVA glue, type III, but you better have your running shoes on. Plastic resin glue is toxic, dried its still toxic, not food grade, so if food will touch this wood, skip that. And plastic resin glue is dark dark brown, maple is light so all your glue lines will look like racing stripes, so skip that. Did I mention skip the plastic resin glue? Glue up the widest sections you can handle with a type II or III PVA, even if that means two boards at a time. I've done 36" tops with one helper, takes less than ten minutes to spread glue and camp if you stage it correctly and have a good glue roller.

So you glue that large barge up near the floor, because you then rent a floor sander to level the darn monster! Realistically the easiest thing I could think of would be to sand two 3' sections on a wide belt sander at a shop, create a 1/2" stop spline in the center, use baltic birch for a spline, and joint the two sections in the field using counter top bolts, I know them as dog bones, there are a variety of types available. Voila, no glue in the center at all, maybe a dowel at each end too. You can use adjustable saw horses or make staging so one section is on the island, the other on the horses giving you access from below. You could also use a floor sander to level two 3' sections if no wide belt were available in your area. Think bowling alley, because that is basically what you are creating. I did some pretty wide 3 1/2" thick mahogany tops a while back using the counter top bolt technique because there was no way to deliver and place a monolithic top given the site conditions. I had the thing connected in the shop, ran an ogee, sanded it, broke it down for delivery, and only had a little light sanding to do in the field.


My self and one other guy placed a #500 soap stone sink using a floor jack and cribbing in my wash room, so with a little help and some smart mechanical advantage most weights under a few tons are manageable. Perhaps you can build a gantry into your kitchen theme?

Oh, two more thoughts, don't listen to anybody that says you can't do this, you can. And unless this top is being used as a launch pad for the next NASA space craft, it doesn't have to be a mechanically perfectly flat surface to function well. A "waves on the ocean" surface won't work well, but as long as its "flatish" enough to stand a wine glass on without toppling, its fine in my book.

[fRED mCnEILL]

I didn't do butcher block(which I think shows end grain but I did do edge grain. I used 3/4 inch thick birch and the boards are 2 inches wide. It is glued face to face. It is 24 inches wide. I did it in 2 section, each being 12 inches(I have a 20 inch planer. For each section I started by gluing 3 pieces together. Then each day I would add another 2 pieces.When it got to 12 inches I then planed it. When both were finished I glued them together and belt sanded. It was for my son who is waiting to get enough money for undermount sink ,etc. so the sanded countertop sits along the wall in my living room LOL
I did it a few boards at a time because I didn't feel I had enough worktable space to glue all the boards together at once and get them all straight. However doing in on site should solve that problem. I was concerned with warpage as it is 12 feet long but that didn't materialize.

Good luck

Edit
Having read some other comments I will add to my original post. It will be VERY heavy.Mine is 24 in.X12 ft and is heavy. I didn't use any registering attachments like biscuits, dowels etc. I just tried to get the top fairly even and didn't worry about the bottom. Planing takes care of eveness. I also butted pieces together. If you do it right its hard to see the joints and a finish will seal it. For the front lip on mine I used a board that was 12 feet long so there were no joints in the first board. After that all pieces were less than 12 feet. You would want to do that on the front and back.

[Pat Barry]

Michael, I did something to glue up my workbench top. I ended up using two or three pieces glued end to end for each strip. The dowel idea someone mentioned would have been handy I think. You need to clap on the end to end seams vertically, then cross-wise to laminate and end to end to pull everything together otherwise (like I did). I made it work OK. There was lots of flattening required afterward so I also agree with building the top in your shop if possible.

[Ryan Mooney]

I agree that the end<->end joints are probably the most challenging to keep looking good long term. I like Chris's idea of scarfing pieces together. I think that that will likely allow it to be more stable and solid there. You could also scarf and dowel end<->end if that made alignment easier (maybe pre-drill the dowel holes and then cut the angles for the scarf). I would be concerned that dowels alone might allow the ends to pull apart and leave gaps later on, scarfing gets you a lot of long grain glue surface which should be pretty good.

Doweling or splining the pieces together on the edge is also a good idea (and has been pretty beaten to death above). A slight variation on that which I can't really recommend (just in case someone try's to get clever like me :p) is to drill holes through the sides of the boards and run allthread all the way through every ~1' or so and use that as a combo clamping/alignment setup. On the surface that sounds like a good idea, but countersinking the ends of the allthread is a pain (you have to put a face board over them and you have to cut hole in it for the allthread to protrude into once the countertop shrinks width wise - which is will.. more than you'll like probably... especially if you're in a hurry like me and don't let stuff dry enough.. :o) and you can't do a multi-part glue up - which I'm pretty convinced is key to success in wide pieces like this (unless of course you're way better at that than I am - totally possible ;)).

[Rick Fisher]

I have done about 7 counter tops and a bench top in the past few years and consider a 12' counter top a really big challenge..

Most of the ones I have built have been 5' - 6'6 long .. all for islands..

I build sections about 11" wide.. I have a 12" wide jointer with a 54" infeed table.. Once glued up .. I face joint the glue up until its dead flat, then flip and run through the planer. I usually end up with 3 - 4 slabs, 11" ish wide and full length..

I usually let them sit over night .. do their thing.. then run them through the sander so they are all smooth at 150 grit, and exactly the same thickness.

Then Edge joint them with face in/ face out.. face in / face out .. that way if the jointer fence is 89 degrees, the edge its matching up to is 91 degrees and I get a perfect fit, no cracks..

Then domino.. ( biscuits would work too ) .. so the slabs all glue up flush.. I always have the domino cut the slot much wider than the domino and put no glue on the domino .. its simply for keeping the top flush..

Lots of Bessey K- Body clamps..

On the last few, I have used card scrapers in addition to sanding..

If I where you, I would glue up slabs the width of your jointer.. bring them all to the site and glue them together on site.. The slabs alone are brutal to move, so final assembly onsite appeals to me.. but making the whole thing on site makes me cringe..

[Rick Fisher]

This picture show the three slabs.. on this top, the width was only about 28" .. so the middle slab was only about 6" .. the outside slabs where 11" ..

If you flip the slabs face in, face out on the jointer just prior to final assembly, you can get nearly perfect seams..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1170306.jpg

After the final assembly .. a card scraper is a real bonus.. your thumbs will burn but the final finish is better.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1170343.jpg

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1170345-1.jpg

This unit went in a builders own home.. he wanted something wild and left it up to me to decide.. its Sapelli..

[Rick Fisher]

Here is a better example of making it in Jointer width slabs.. This one is a maple top ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/P1170939-1.jpg

Each piece is totally manageable to work with .. the only risk is final assembly, which means cleaning up only a few seams by hand.

[Steve Griffin]

I've done a number of tops just about as big.

Here's how I'd do it:
-Glue up in widths of 12-16" using biscuits to help line up.
-With a helper, run through wide belt sander (or planer if you don't have a sander.)
-DRY clamp up entire top, using biscuits to help line up.
-Cut to final length using jig saw and router flush trim.
-6" ROS the joints and the perimeter

Transport in pieces, final glue up where it goes. A little more touch up sanding and finishing and your good.

Or better, do final glue up in shop and finish in shop. Get 4 guys to help move and transport.

You can also buy prefinished maple tops and glue those up. These come with a lousy lacquer finish which you need to sand off.

Or hire this out to a capable cabinet shop and spend your time building other stuff for the house.....

[Steve Griffin]

Other options to consider is using wide planks, rather the little 1.5 or 2" guys. I think it looks better and it definitely saves material and labor time.

You could also make it out of 3/4", and fold the edges and ends over to get 1.5" thickness. This basically cuts your weight and material cost in half, and makes machining easier. Two guys could move it around.

[Ryan Eldridge]

I did what Steve Griffin recommends. I was going to go with the butcher block edge grain but went with face grain planks. It came out really well and was not to hard to work with. I made an L top that was 48" at its widest point and 96" long, and also just finished an island top that is 48"x60" both made out of maple.

Either way I think you can do it, the key is several small sections get each one flat, and then glue up into a large one. On both of the tops I just made I was in a hurry so I used pocket screws on the underside since I will most likely never crawl into the cabinets and see what the counter top looks like underneath this way when I glued up each piece I was able to force the top flat and hold it while the glue set. This method actually worked out better than I thought it would, I had minimal sanding, it took me about 15 minutes of hand planing on each top to make everything level and flat and then finished sanding with 150 and 180 grit.

There are thousands of ways to skin this cat but I think you will come up with a good plan with comments from the other posters.

[Chris Fournier]

First, I would never put wood around a sink as in the photo the OP provided. I guarantee that no matter how careful you are and I mean surgically careful, the wood around the sink will be compromised over time as water works away at the finish. This design will cause major grief down the road. I have made several wooden countertops for kitchen use in the past 15 years and they are all in service to this day and have required no maintenance to speak of.

Second, take a close look at the grain orientation in Rick's photos. It looks nice overall but again this is a poor idea, tangential and radial grain make poor bedfellows - one moves alot , one moves a little. I would predict that this top of Rick's will suffer failure at several of the gluelines. I would avoid this situation as a woodworker, especially a woodworker who warrranties his work!

[Peter Quinn]

First, I would never put wood around a sink as in the photo the OP provided. I guarantee that no matter how careful you are and I mean surgically careful, the wood around the sink will be compromised over time as water works away at the finish. This design will cause major grief down the road. I have made several wooden countertops for kitchen use in the past 15 years and they are all in service to this day and have required no maintenance to speak of.

Second, take a close look at the grain orientation in Rick's photos. It looks nice overall but again this is a poor idea, tangential and radial grain make poor bedfellows - one moves alot , one moves a little. I would predict that this top of Rick's will suffer failure at several of the gluelines. I would avoid this situation as a woodworker, especially a woodworker who warrranties his work!


Uh, this summer I was standing on the deck of a 125 year old square rigger made of wood, mostly. Lots of boats are made of wood. My house is made of wood and has spent most of the summer getting wet on the outside. My toilet seat is in fact made of wood. I was in my bosses kitchen toady and noticed his 25 year old bird's eye counter w/under mount sink seemed to be in fine order, has been refinished several times, but has not spontaneously decayed yet. I'd argue that wood and water can play nicely if a decent finish is applied, some care is given to minimize standing water, and maintenance is done as needed. Granite needs sealing, soap stone requires oil, tiles will eventually need grout. Solid surface scratches and will need detailing eventually. The only really no maintenance counter surface I have ever seen is stainless with rolled integral back splash, but thats not for everyone. Major grief? Not really, just a bit of proper steward ship. And a bit more than mineral oil is probably required, though I do have one friend with a sink in maple counter top that is 10 years old, nothing more than mineral oil twice a year has been done, looks great and no problems even with a house fill of kids!

I would also argue that the grain orientation issue is minor. I've seen stave core blanks on doors close to 100 years old made just like that. They rip a wide pine board, it yields anywhere from perfect quartered to perfect plain sawn grain, the strips are narrow, they hold each other in place as no one member is strong enough to exert its will and take control. Sort of like watching C-span these days. I have several wooden tops in my own home made this way that are doing just fine. Most commercial edge grain tops are made similarly. I would not want to see great expanses of tangential and radial grain mixed for reasons of both stability and asthetics, but in small strips I have not experience any issues.

[Chris Fournier]

"I was in my bosses kitchen toady and noticed his 25 year old bird's eye counter w/under mount sink seemed to be in fine order, has been refinished several times,".

Refinished several times over 25 years - that's my point. Wanna R&R a 12' X 6" top several times? Not me!

Ripping a wide board is no biggie if the staves are put back in sequence, that's just nature tweaked, not meddled with.

[Steve Griffin]

Excellent points Peter.

I just took a look at our 9 year old maple tops. Look just fine around the sink--there's a little water staining near my leaky coffee maker and the main work area, but the sink is fine. Lots of dings and dents, but that's ok with us.

I've done maple counters next to sinks for clients too, after giving them a long lecture on what could go wrong, nothing really has.

I finish tops with semi-gloss poly. I recoated ours once after 5 years--took about an hour of sanding and brushing. Hardly a burden.