Raising the Grain

[Mike Goetzke]

With water based finishes is it possible to dampen a rag (or whatever) to raise the grain on the raw wood before the final grit sanding instead needing to smooth out after the first coat of finish?

Thanks,

Mike

[Bob Wingard]

I knew an old gunstock refinisher years ago, and he showed me what he did. Sanded to the final grit ... then thoroughly wet the surface with distilled water ... he said tap water COULD contaminate the surface, depending on the qualities of your particular water ... he would pass the wood under an infrared heat lamp, which would rapidly heat the water, turning it into steam ... the escaping steam blasted the dust & debris out of the pores ... then he would take a fresh piece of 0000 steel wool, wash it out in lacquer thinner to get rid of the oil the manufacturer applied for rust prevention ... thoroughly wipe down the surface, causing the sharp edges of the steel wool to shave off the raised fibers ... then do it all a second time. He would then apply several coats of high grade alkyd varnish or lacquer, depending on the customer's request. His finishes always looked a mile deep, and you could actually see the open pores as if you were looking through a magnifying glass. I'm sure he is long gone, but in case anyone else ever knew him, his name was John Smith (really), and he lived in Fox Lake, Illinois. He made and finished some of the finest stocks I've ever seen. He once built a custom stock for a guy who was a right handed trap shooter but lost his right eye, forcing him to shoot with his left eye. John's solution was a stock that looked like a used wishbone ... it had an offset that allowed the gun to be shouldered and shot right-handed, but sighted left-handed.

[John TenEyck]

Yes, you can just wipe the surface with water (distilled or DI is best) and sand it again after it's dry. Do this after you've sanded it the first time to your final grit. And don't use steel wool. If any of the steel wool gets stuck in the wood you'll get rust spots under that WB finish.

You can dramatically reduce the amount of grain raising that occurs if you put on a coat of SealCoat shellac first, scuff sand, then put on your WB product.

[Bob Wingard]

Oops !!! I forgot the part about the finish being water borne ... in that case, an abrasive non-woven pad or synthetic steel wool could be used. I don't know where to find it anymore, but they used to sell bronze wool for just such an application.


It's still available ... http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7391/product/BRONZE_WOOL

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks for the replies. I'll try this on my next finishing project. I just hate sanding finish off - that's why I asked.

Mike

[Howard Acheson]

Here is something you may want to read regarding pre-raising the grain. It's just not necessary.

http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Articles/ArticleViewPage/tabid/75/ArticleId/28/Pre-Raising-The-Grain.aspx

[Bob Wingard]

I would have to agree with his logic that raising the grain ... then re-sanding to remove the raised fibers could/would actually just re-pack them, along with freshly made dust back into the pores. That is the reason for using steel (or bronze or stainless steel) wool to sever the raised fibers from the surface, allowing causing them to be cleanly removed from the surface. His criticism of the entire grain-raising process seems to be with the use of sandpaper to eliminate the raised grain ... he never addresses the use of metal wool products, and, he, in several places interjects the "in my view/in my opinion" comments, removing himself as the target of criticism, should he be proven wrong.

[Scott Holmes]

I say never use steel wool between coats or on raw wood.

Reason #1 you will leave shards of steel wool behind; then you will top coat it. Now you have steel wool IN your finish when water vapor get to it, and it will, it will RUST - IN YOUR FINISH. Waterborne finishes make this happen very quickly.

Reason #2 Many steel wool products have oil to keep them from rusting so now you have oil on your surface... bad idea.

Reason #3 If you use Poly... it does not stick well to itself or anything else for that matter that is why they tell you to sand between coats. Steel wool abrades the finish; it does not give enough "tooth" for poly to adhere well. 220 sand paper 320 at the finest.

[Harvey Pascoe]

I can't see any point to "raising the grain" either unless you are trying to finish with just one coat and that won't work out too well. Your water based finish is going to do that anyway, With your sanding between coats you'll remove any fibers standing proud.

Steel wool on raw wood? Never. As Scott says it leaves shards of steel stuck in the wood. Bronze wool, the same.

[Bob Wingard]

I can ALMOST agree with Scott on this one ...

I will use it on raw wood in the situation and circumstances mentioned above with items such as a highly figured gunstock ...

I don't ever use steel wool WITH a water borne finish due to the rust problem ...

When I do use steel wool, I thoroughly rinse it out in lacquer thinner to rid it of the oil ...

I don't normally use it between coats ...

In the gun stock scenario, it's not about raising the grain ... it's more a matter of cleaning out the pores ... a liberal application of water, followed by a heat lamp causes the water to boils almost instantly, blowing the debris out of the pores ... the steel wool then shaves the debris & fibers off, leaving a VERY open & porous surface behind. A good wash down with lacquer thinner just prior to spraying ensures that any oils or residues from the process are gone.

It's not for every project, but on small pieces that are highly figured, the results can be dramatic.

[Scott Holmes]

Bob,

as you said "...pieces that are highly figured, the results can be dramatic. "

Up until... water vapor gets through the finish, which it will.. then you have RUST in your finish. A hand scraper or a cabinet scraper will wisk the tiny fibers away and not leave any steel behind. So will a very light sanding between coat 2 and 3 of the film forming finish. I guess the brass would be OK.

[Bob Wingard]

Well ... I have a Winchester 101 O/U trap gun that I refinished using this process back in 1974 ... it was topcoated with a few shots of DEFT from a rattle can ... it looks as good as it did in 1974 ... if it hasn't had water permeation damage by now, I'll presume it to be safe.

Why do so many otherwise logical people think it not possible to clear the surface of microscopic metal fragments ... I mean, you have vacuums .. brushes .. compressed air .. magnets .. do you really think there's a big threat from anything left behind all that unless it's getting a waterborne finish ???

[Harvey Pascoe]

Why do so many otherwise logical people think it not possible to clear the surface of microscopic metal fragments ... I mean, you have vacuums .. brushes .. compressed air .. magnets .. do you really think there's a big threat from anything left behind all that unless it's getting a waterborne finish ???

Because, Bob, if you take a magnifying glass to it you will see minute fragments of steel lodged and trapped under splints of fibers sticking up and nothing short of sanding or scraping will remove them. You can never completely get rid of loose fiber ends before finishing, nor do I see any reason why one should have to. Once the first coat of finish is applied, then sanded, they're gone!

Don't you think blowing the surface off with compressed air removes dust adequately? I do, and I can't see the need to remove every last micron of dust from the pores.