Combo Grit or Single Grit Waterstones

[Roy Wall]

Creekers,

Just wanted your opinions on what types of stones you buy..........??

I'm looking at the 220/1000 and 4000/8000 combo grit Norton = $120.00

or

Can get the 4 individual stones arount $180.00......

Any pros or cons to these options?

Also, when the need arises, do I use the 220 to flatten all of them .....or the 220 to flatten the 1000, the 1000 to flatten the 4000, yada, yada, yada..

I've been using a Samuri 800/4000 combo and considering the upgrade..

Thanks!

[Steve Wargo]

I have the two combo stones and love them.

[Roy Wall]

Just for grins, I checked the L-N website....
the 220/1000 = $35 and 4000/8000 = $65.....I thought they would have the highest price, so didn't check there first.

WW show in KC next weekend...........

[Mark Stutz]

Roy,
The LN guy at the show went from 1000to 8000. He flattened both stones with sandpaper on granite, then rubbed them on another flat 1000 to "deglaze" it. Definitely spend some time at the booth. You'll pick up a bunch of little tricks.

Mark

[RichMagnone]

WW show in Milwaukee had the Norton 220/1000, 4000/8000, stone holder and sharpening jig for $99.

[Joel Moskowitz]

The Norton stones are supposed to come with plastic boxes for each stone - so the stone holder isn't really necessary. Before the boxes I would just put a paper towel under the stone - saves a lot more time than fussing with a holder.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I have a 800/4000 combo and a 6000 and 220. I think I like the individual stones better although I can't really say why. The 6000 is permanently attached to a base. Maybe that's why.

[Mark Singer]

I would reccomend the Shapton stones I bought from Joel, They come in a set 1000...5000...8000...They are easier to use and cut fast! ....Thanks Joel!
The Norton stones are supposed to come with plastic boxes for each stone - so the stone holder isn't really necessary. Before the boxes I would just put a paper towel under the stone - saves a lot more time than fussing with a holder.

[Roy Wall]

Roy,
The LN guy at the show went from 1000to 8000. He flattened both stones with sandpaper on granite, then rubbed them on another flat 1000 to "deglaze" it. Definitely spend some time at the booth. You'll pick up a bunch of little tricks.

Mark
Thanks Mark..........I'll be at that booth all three days!!!! Probably loose a little $$$ too!!

[Roy Wall]

I would reccomend the Shapton stones I bought from Joel, They come in a set 1000...5000...8000...They are easier to use and cut fast! ....Thanks Joel!
Mark & Joel,

can you guys pinpoint how these stones are superior.......(2x the price) or are these overkill for the hobbyist like me....

Joel, I look at the website.....can I just use my "dead flat" granite 12x12 (w/ powder) to flatten these puppies occasionally??

[Mark Singer]

At the Ontario show , Gene Collison and I watch Frank Klauz sharpen plane blades ....he was using the Shapton also. I think many have started using them since they are man made and harder....they need less lapping. The grit is more consistent so more of the surface is doing the cutting , resultingin a faster honing. You don't soak them but just spray them with a mist of water. the set was just over $200 so it is the range of your first posts. Klauz went all the way to 15000. That stone is more pricey. I think he had 1000, 5000, 15000. I can do fine with my King water stones using the Nagra for a slurry....this is just faster and more consistent

[Joel Moskowitz]

SHapton stones have one major feature over the Nortons - at the 1k and 5K grits they don't need to be soaked - just sprinkel water on them. They also cut really fast. the tradeoff is that because they are so hard they are harder to flatten.

I like the convinence of not soaking. THe speed is just frosting.

If I had to get only one set of stones - being practical- I would probably go for the 1k and 5K Shaptons and the 8k Norton. the latter not needing soaking and saving me some money and being easier to flatten.

If I wanted the easiest to maintain I would get the Ice Bear stones. they need soaking but they are the softest and the easier to flatten. THeir 10k stone is great.

If I wanted the least expensive combo that could produce a great edge I would get the Norton 220/1000 and 4k/8k pair. or if you follow the idea that the 4k isn't critical the new 1k/8k Norton stone that we stock (I think LN is the only other dealer right
now) is very cost effective.

If I wanted the finest edge I would get a Norton Lilywhite or Belgian Blue and follow that with a Belgian coticule stone.

If I wanted a pretty darn good edge on a budget I would seriously think about the lily white by itself which is what people did in the old days.

I go through phases and I don't think there is one universal answer. And this just covers waterstones. I find myself in the office using oilstones more and more because they don't need to be flattened.
There are tradeoffs in everything and I just went through some of the possible purmutations on what we stock. We carry such a range because not everyone's requirements are the same. If you add in the characteristics of some of the other stones on the market you really can drive yourself crazy. It is my understanding that in Japan smiths would recommend specific stones based on the characterisics of the stone and steel working together.

As for flattening I would guess that SC powder on granite will destroy the granite. But I don't know for certain. I would use either the Shapton Lapping plate with powder. A 220 coarse diamond stone (eventually you will kill the stone but otherwise it works great). or Sandpaper on glass. There are a few other interesting options and in a pinch a good sidewalk works pretty well ( a long stroke evens out the hills and valley in the sidewalk).

I know - I'm just as confiused now too - You can't go wrong with Shaptons, or Nortons, Or icebears, or Belgian stones. but there are tradeoffs in sharpening speed, ease of use, maintenance, and of course cost.

As for overkill- sharp tools are a critical factor there is in successfull woodworking - so a good system that works well for you is work every every penny.
Single stones are great - combo stones are great but less expensive and less convinent.

[Roy Wall]

Joel and Mark,

Thanks for the expertise - awesome information!!!! I can certainly appreciate the "sprinkle" method -.........and I don't mind flattening the stone with sandpaper/glass once in a while.

Joel, I'll give you a call soon.

[Mark Singer]

Roy,
Joel really knows all the stones. It seems that the Shaptons have gotton popular among a lot of us here, because of the ease of use and the rapid cutting. Gene Collison and Alan Turner and I all use them now. As Joel said there are tradeoffs.
Joel and Mark,

Thanks for the expertise - awesome information!!!! I can certainly appreciate the "sprinkle" method -.........and I don't mind flattening the stone with sandpaper/glass once in a while.

Joel, I'll give you a call soon.

[Gregory Benulis]

Hey Joel, last summer I was lucky enough to spend some time with Garrett Hack. He uses oil stones to do most of his sharpening, especially when traveling. What he does to speed them up is put a lttle bit of the oil based diamond paste on his stones (emphasis on little bit). He said it lasts quite a long time and they cut even A2 quite well.
Greg

[Joel Moskowitz]

I know Garrett and mostly agree with everything he says. However I have never been able to get around the adding diamond paste onto the oil stone thing. I sharpen A2 on my oilstones all the time without any diamond paste - I do however hollow grind the blades (otherwise it takes way too long). But again there are many approaches.

[Gene Collison]

Roy,

The 1000/8000 Norton as carried by Joel should be a winner as both of these stones are good. IMO the 220 Norton is very soft and not as useful as the other Norton's, I would avoid the 220. The best combo stones may be the 1000/4000 and 4000/8000 as the 4000's wear rather quickly too. Another great stone is the 800/6000 King, you really don't need to go coarser than 800. All of these stones flatten easily by sandpaper or concrete blocks.
If you are thinking Shapton's, you will need a better method to flatten them and remove the glaze than sandpaper on a tile. I use a blue DMT diamond stone and find it to be easy and effective. Others use the shapton lapping plate which I haven't tried. As regard to Shapton stones, they are great but the choice is somewhat ambiguous. I have and use the 1000/5000. My 1000 clogs easily IMO and needs resurfacing with the diamond stone on a fairly frequent basis. The 5000 is a great product. I am told by a source that I trust that the best coarser Shapton is a 2000 and possibly one of the best stones they make. That said, if you want to try Shapton's, the 2000, 5000 would be my choice. The 8000 can be a Shapton or a Norton. Hope this helps.

Gene