Best bowl gouge for roughing blanks

[Prashun Patel]

I want to invest in a gouge for roughing green bowl blanks into round.

I am looking at Thompson's 3/4" bowl gouge and the P&N 7/8" 'supa' gouge. Thompson's is a no-brainer; I have his 1/2" gouge and am a big fan. However, I get a little more heft and a lower price with the P&N.

The question is, does the supa fit into the Varigrind?

Does anyone have experience with the Supa - or a recommendation for a different gouge?

[Bill Bolen]

I use Doug's 5/8" V for any large rough outs. That thing really hogs off some wood!

[Prashun Patel]

Hi Bill. Thanks. I've noticed you and many others here use the 5/8" V for the roughest of work. What are the downsides to going as big as 3/4"? For any work that the 3/4" is too 'large' for, I imagine my 1/2" will be sufficient.

[Reed Gray]

It depends on how much horse power you have. If you use a swept back gouge, how much sweep you put on the wings determines how much steel you can put into the wood. Problem is if you slow down the lathe, then you loose time. A 5/8 gouge is plenty for most people. I prefer a 3/8 by 1 1/4 inch scraper. Most efficient tool out there for roughing. Consider that the primary cut you use with a gouge for roughing is a scrape, what better tool for the job than a scraper.

robo hippy

[David E Keller]

I've also got the DT 5/8 V... I've never seen a need for anything bigger, and it does fit in the original varigrind. I'd definitely go with a nice beefy handle as well... I use one of Randy's Monster handles on mine.

[Tim Rinehart]

The 5/8" Thompson is my goto for roughing of all big blanks, up to capacity of my lathe, a 3520. I think you may run into issues with standard Vari-grind jig above 5/8" also. That seems about as big a gouge as mine will handle without going to a larger variation that I do believe exists.
I think to Reed's point on your HP and how you grind your gouge, the 5/8" should suffice quite well, with no regrets. It's actually a pretty big jump going from 1/2" to 5/8"..bigger than you may realize.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I really enjoy my 5/8 Oneway mastercut. I mount it in the McNauchton handle, and that give it a lot of heft. I also have the vaunted 5/8 Thompson V, but because of the heft of the McNaughton handle, the Mastercut seems to do a beter job. I mounted the Thompson in a wood handle. I prefer the wood for most work, except roughing, the McN is a bit heavy.
I also have the BB 2" roughing gouge.

I will have to try using a scraper...... Never thought of that. Thanks for the tip!

[John Spitters]

I also use a Thompson 5/8" V and 5/8"U even with these on many occassions I find that I need to be less aggressive and back off, because I'll tend to slow down the lathe. I have a General 26020vs with the 2hp. I've never found a need to go to a larger tool.

John

[John Keeton]

Thompson 5/8"V gouge - affectionately named "The Hog"!! It is all the tool you will need! 3/4" would be huge and much more bite than I need to be doing on my 1642 2hp. lathe, I suspect.

[Jon Nuckles]

Add my name to the list of those using the 5/8" V from Mr. Thompson. I use it for almost everything, from roughing to finish cuts.

[Jamie Donaldson]

I have used a 5/8" gouge for this purpose, and most of the rest of the bowl turning process for many years. Unless you're turning bowls less than 6" in diameter you don't need any other tool!

[Roger Chandler]

Prashun,

I have a 3/4" Thompson gouge with a u flute. It will definitely hog off material.........that being said, I have learned that I like the 5/8" size better..........I have the V flute on it, and to me it gives me a smoother cut than the 3/4" u flute. I don't think you can go wrong with a 5/8" V.

[Prashun Patel]

This is great information. However, I use my 1/2" Thompson gouge (U) for most of the shaping and smoothing cuts. It seems to work efficiently and smoothly.

Doug himself advised me that the a 3/4" might be a good choice for roughing. My goal is to start skipping the bandsaw step and going straight from a chainsawed octagon to the lathe.

Will a 3/4" be noticeably quicker and less "puckery" than the 5/8"?

[Roger Chandler]

Will a 3/4" be noticeably quicker and less "puckery" than the 5/8"?

Not in my opinion, but since you already use a 1/2 inch with a u flute, you might favor the u -flute 3/4 inch. I like the 5/8" because of the feel...........the 3/4 inch will give you more metal..........I have caused my 2 hp lathe to stall with heavy cuts with the 3/4"..........that probably is just me being too aggressive, anyway. A smoother cut with less force is more desirable than just to hog off copious amounts of wood, IMHO.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Prashun,
Why do you leave an octagon with your chain saw. Take the time to make more cuts around the perimeter and you will end up with something more like a round and without the bumps of an octagon. You can buy any size gouge you want. I don't have a 3/4" gouge and it is all I can do to hang onto a 5/8" when I get enough of the wing cutting wood. I certainly wouldn't jump from 1/2" directly to 3/4". I like Doug's tools as much as anyone else here. I also own Oneway's 5/8" Mastercut with their handle (possibly made by or like a Hosaluk handle) That handle is much heavier then Doug's and bigger in diameter with a plastic covering that makes the grip positive, comfortable and absorbs a lot more shock.
faust

[Reed Gray]

Prashun,
Thing is with a chain sawn blank, no matter how good you are, it will always be out of balance, and not round. That means you have to turn more slowly, and less aggressively until the blank is balanced. Having a well tuned up bandsaw, with a good sharp blade saves work. Having a big bandsaw (16 inch high, 4.5 hp) makes the sides parallel. One of the best shop investments I have made.

robo hippy

[Bob Bergstrom]

Unless you are really turning big or deep, the 3/4" is not necessary, that is of course you don't have a big ego and like to see 1" shavings fly through the air. I have a 1/4" and a 1" Crown pro. Both are overkill for most roughing. My 5/8" with swept back wings will take all the abuse I can throw at it. The 5/8" gouges are much more versatile. The big one are really best for reaching far over the tool rest in deep bowls.

[Keith E Byrd]

I use a Thompson 5/8 also - man it does a job. I watched a Lyle Jamison video and he shows how to rough without a band saw or chain saw. I have done 4 bowls with no "rounding" cuts, a spur center and live center and running between 1000-1200 for roughing 8-10 in bowls. The secret is balancing the blank between centers - it is amazing how easy it is to get the blank round!

[Mark Levitski]

Prashun,

IMO you don't need anything bigger than your 1/2", and/or, as Reed suggests, a thick scraper. Wanna buy another gouge for the thrill? Go ahead and enjoy, but not necessary. One can start to finish a bowl with just a scaper. And, if using a gouge and want more bite in your roughing? Just apply more of the wing, i.e., more cutting edge. I regularly hack off a chainsaw-cut blank (octagon or whatever) with a half inch gouge. Right, the rounder you can make it before mounting on the lathe, the better. But there is a point of diminishing returns to that principle if you are wanting better efficiency and production. And remember, the lathe is to make things round!

JMHO...............Mark

[Don McLeod]

I use different sizes of bowl gouges and prefer a smaller size when turning dry wood although a larger size works just as well. I have a 3/4 inch DT Vee bowl gouge, a 5/8 P&N Vee, a 1/2 U oneway and the P&N Supra and almost never use the Supra (I haven't found a grind that I like on it). I like the Vee shape as I think I have more control but when freshly sharpened they all will send great streams of green wood over your shoulder. I also think that a handle that you are comfortable with is as important as the size or type of bowl gouge.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have the DT 5/8" and haven't seen a reason for a bigger gouge. I agree with Roger and I would rather have a smoother cut than just hog wood.

[Harry Robinette]

Prashun
I use a Thompson 3/4 U gouge when I'm turning a large piece on the Vega say 22 to 25 inches. My Vega has the 2Hp with the variable speed I have no problem stalling this monster but a 3/4 gouge needs ALLOT of power,I'd say from using mine you'll probable wont to stay with the 5/8 gouge.
just my $.02

[Dale Miner]

Prashun,

Without knowing your lathe and what you intend to turn, it is tough to make a recommendation. I use a fingernail ground 3/4" U flute (Thompson) with a long wood handle for roughing. Started using U flutes because my first bowl gouge was home made, and that is the shape flute it had. The long handle was put on the 3/4" because to me, the factory handles are generally on the short side.

When there is a gang here for a turn and gab session, most any of them will turn, and it seems they all will grab the 3/4" and give it a try. No one has complained that it is too big. As long as they are roughing and it is still sharp, they keep using it. A larger gouge does not necessarily make a rougher cut. An angel hair shaving as well as one the size of firewood are both possible with a fingernail on a 5/8" or a 3/4". I do use the 3/4" for most of the stock removal on the second turning of bowls. The final pass on the inside is usually done with a 1/2" U flute. One of the better features of a larger gouge is the ability to have more over the rest without chatter. That means fewer moves of the toolrest if the turner has enough tool control to manage the extra overhang. A longer handle helps with increased overhang.

I can stall my 3520b with either the 5/8" or the 3/4" on larger blanks. Is there an 'Aggresive Turners Anonymous' orginization?

I can't recommend what size to get, but would recommend a V flute if you do get a 3/4" Thompson. The larger U flute can be quite grabby if the presentation is slightly off. If you are currently using a 1/2" U flute, and decide on a 5/8", you would probably be happier with a U flute in that size.

Someone else mentioned that there is big difference between a 1/2" and a 5/8", and I would have to agree. Not only in the stock removal rate, but in the amount of tool overhang that the gouge will tolerate.

Edit:
Prashun,

I just reread your first post. If you are going to knock corners off, get the 3/4" gouge in a V flute, and put a handle on it that makes the overall length 30" or more. I drilled a hole in the back end of my wooden handle to add weight, but never felt the need. Knocking corners off is a bear. If I can lift and manage the blank, I bandsaw round before turning. Saves time, saves elbow, saves shoulder.

[William Bachtel]

I do a lot of big bowl rough outs, and the Thompson 5/8 V is all you need, I also use a large scraper I made from an old large file, it works great, outside only. Doug wood tell you to go with the 5/8 gouge, I have been in his shop several times, and he told me, unless you do a lot of rough bowls everyday and have lots of hp and muscle, that you don't need it (3/4 that is) One more thing listen to the majority here and you can't go wrong.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks all. I'm getting the 5/8" V.
- p

[Brian Kent]

Reading an old thread - how did you like your 5/8" V?

[Sean Hughto]

What are the downsides to going as big as 3/4"?.

Physics. Big bites can be jarring.

[David Walser]

I use a Thompson 5/8 also - man it does a job. I watched a Lyle Jamison video and he shows how to rough without a band saw or chain saw. I have done 4 bowls with no "rounding" cuts, a spur center and live center and running between 1000-1200 for roughing 8-10 in bowls. The secret is balancing the blank between centers - it is amazing how easy it is to get the blank round!

I'm going to second this approach. By starting a bowl between centers, you give yourself a lot more flexibility in the creative process. For example, you can more easily raise or lower one side of the bowl to better balance the grain. You pay for this flexibility with the small amount of extra time it takes to start the bowl between centers. If you're a production turner, rounding the blanks on the bandsaw and starting with the blank mounted on a screw chuck will get more bowls done at the end of the day, but you'll have given up some creative control. Once a blank has been mounted on a screw chuck, you can still control the shape and depth of the bowl, but you'll have a hard time changing the center of the bowl or the angle at which the grain passes through the bowl.

Most of us aren't production turners, but many of us like to sell a few items to sustain our addiction. So, there's no "right way" to start a bowl. Starting between centers is safe and maximizes your creative choices. Rounding out blanks on the bandsaw and mounting the blanks with a screw chuck is safe and is (slightly) faster. If you aren't going to take advantage of the creative flexibility starting between centers provides (and you have a bandsaw), use a screw chuck. If you want the flexibility (or don't have a bandsaw), start between centers. The choice is yours. Just know you have a choice.

Here's a link to the Lyle Jamison video, Bowl Basics the Easy Way. It is the most informative bowl turning video I've ever seen. (I own most of the videos that are on the market.) You may not agree with everything Lyle has to say, but you'll understand WHY Lyle believes the things that he does. It's a video every turner should see at least once. http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/5/-/22/99/-/942/Jamieson-Bowl-Basics-the-Easy-Way-by-Lyle-Jamieson-DVD/lyle+jamieson

[Anthony Diodati]

It depends on how much horse power you have. If you use a swept back gouge, how much sweep you put on the wings determines how much steel you can put into the wood. Problem is if you slow down the lathe, then you loose time. A 5/8 gouge is plenty for most people. I prefer a 3/8 by 1 1/4 inch scraper. Most efficient tool out there for roughing. Consider that the primary cut you use with a gouge for roughing is a scrape, what better tool for the job than a scraper.
robo hippy
Where did you find you 3/8" X 1 1/4" scraper. I see a 1 1/2" wide one at highland hardware, but they don't tell the thickness.

[Prashun Patel]

I like the 5/8" V. I have a 1/2" U, which I got first. Honestly, it took me a while to fall in love with the 5/8". However, I agree with the sentiments that it's nice for interior cuts. Also, someone told me that a heavier gouge helps minimize vibration when turning near the rim. I'm not sure if it's improved technique or the gouge, but I've had success with it.

However, I will also say that my whole goal in getting the 5/8" was rapid and easy hollowing. Although, as I've learned how to sweep back the wings on my bowl gouges and to present more of the cutting edge to the bowl, my shavings have gotten bigger and my effort has gone way down.

If you don't have them yet, I'd personally recommend the Thompson gouges. They really did improve the quality and ease of my cuts. If you are willing to turn your own handles, they are quite a bargain too. Turning handles is a whole 'nuther thread, though...

[Brian Kent]

Thank you, Prashun. I have the Thompson 1/2" V Bowl Gouge. It was only recently that I learned not to use a roughing gouge for bowls. I was lucky to not get hurt, and I have been turning rather small bowls. Now I am using the Bowl Gouge for roughing bowls. It is scary how much I do not know!

I recently turned a 10" bowl. I could handle the roughing stage just find, but since there was a lot of jarring going on. I wanted to know what I could do better - technique or tool wise. That is when I found your old thread.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

If you want a bigger gouge, check out Serious Tools - they've got a 3/4", 7/8", and a 1" bowl gouge for sale. You're going to need some horsepower for any of them, and good shoulders, too.

For me, a 5/8" bowl gouge gets the job done just fine, and I seldom bother with bandsawing the corners off large blanks. I use Dave's D-way 5/8"gouge for all roughing, and most work on larger bowls start to finish.

[William Bachtel]

Just ask Doug Thompson

[Richard Jones]

If you want a bigger gouge........................................3/4", 7/8", and a 1" bowl gouge...........You're going to need some horsepower for any of them, and good shoulders, too. :D ........

I'm a big boy and I use a Thomspon 5/8" U and if it took any bigger shaving I don't think I could hang on to it.................I can bog down a 2hp with just about any bowl gouge....................

[mark ravensdale]

When I first started turning I got myself a Robert sorby 3/4 inch gouge (made from bar stock well over 1 inch thick) thinking "the bigger the better" but I soon found this isn't always true, it was so grabby or just jarred too much in most cases, over the years I have found a 5/8 inch gouge is pretty much as big as is needed even on pretty big wood (27inch diameter and such)
as for my 3/4 inch sorby, well I put a straight/traditional grind on it and found it works great for roughing big knobbly logs into round, so it wasn't a complete waste of money (though I did have to put a huge heavy kel mcnaughton handle on it to counteract the jarring from having so much metal in contact with the wood :eek:)