Looking for a #3 or #4 Smoothing plane (or something similar) what do I need to find?

[Nick Sorenson]

I am new to planes but I have determined I need a small smoothing plane for what I'm doing (smoothing wood blanks after the planer). I build musical instruments. I think it's a #3 or a #4 that I'm after. Any ideas what I should look for? It seems like the old Stanley's are abundant at almost any junk tool sale. What do I look for if I get a Stanley? If I don't get a stanley what else should I look for. I'm not necessarily set on a #3 or #4 plane, maybe a Japanese plane? I'm not sure. I just need something to easily take out the planer marks.

[Chris Griggs]

If you want to go vintage call, Walt Q at http://brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/new tools.html. Or talk to Sandy Moss at http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm. Either will get you into a high quality vintage smoother at a fair price.

Also, make sure you have a basic sharpening setup - the best plane is useless with a dull blade.

[Terry Beadle]

For musical instruments, I would think a #3 would be better than a #4 but it's almost a toss up.

The advice regarding a basic sharpening setup is dead on. If you can build musical instruments, you probably have the skills needed to build your own planes. I would get a woodie blade from Hock and make your own. You'll probably want a jointer too so if you can make the smoother, a jointer can be made to even use the same blade.

Take some time to look on youtube at the sharpening and plane use episodes. It will accelerate your understanding of planes and the blades.

A Japanese kanna is a niffty tool. It does take a bit of learning but worth the effort by a wide margin. As a first plane though they may be a little frustrating to get set up etc. Still a kanna will deal with difficult grain almost right out of the box if you pay attention. Difficult grain will be quite frequent in musical instrument making.

Enjoy the process!

[Nick Sorenson]

Just picked up a #4 Stanley (Type 18-hopefully that's a decent build quality model) from Walt at Brass City. Looking forward to using it. I've got a pretty good assortment of super fine wet/dry silicon carbide sandpapers and spray adhesives so I'll try scary sharp first if I can find a dead flat surface to mount to. I also have a DMT Diasharp diamond xtra fine 1200 stone. So we'll see what works the best. I'll probably eventually end up using a Norton combination if these don't do the trick.

I have a few instrument parts catalogs that show the Japanese planes. I've never used one but I'd love to check them out.

[Brian Kent]

A granite tile from Home Depot - about $5 - is a good flat surface for scary sharp.

[Chris Griggs]

A granite tile from Home Depot - about $5 - is a good flat surface for scary sharp.

Yep, that's what I started with - still have the tile, and still use it if I need to lap the sole of a plane.

[James Scheffler]

If you're smoothing highly figured wood, you may want to go with a cabinet scraper (for example, Stanley No. 80) or a higher-angle smooth plane. This one is said to be pretty good, although I haven't used it: http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=50251&cat=1,41182,41187&ap=1 There are lots of other high-angle smooth plane choices if you have more money to spend.

The Stanley No. 80 should go for a similar price as a No. 3 or No. 4, although they don't seem to be as common in the wild.

Jim S.

[Nick Sorenson]

Thanks Jim, I was actually checking on here for an 80 earlier today. There are a few that have sold on here in the past few weeks and yes, not terribly expensive. Seems that $30 is about the average. Things are tight right now so I'll probably wait on that. Little expenses add up. But, I'll try to pick one up. I'm using a Bahco/Sandvik card scraper right now and it's working pretty well. But I don't find it to be as nice on tiger striped curly maple, it tends to tear out and also scallop in the curls. Fortunately I don't use a ton of curly.

So... Granite tile. Isn't there usually texture in tile? Maybe not granite. I'll have to check that out. Seems like I have a few iron saw tops that are pretty flat. I'm guessing we're after less than a thousandth of an inch. Probably hard to measure since feeler gauges stop at around .002 or 3.

[Jim Belair]

Plate glass (1/4" or thicker) is also suitable as a flat surface to sharpen on. Or table saw, jointer bed.

Jim B

[David Keller NC]

Thanks Jim, I was actually checking on here for an 80 earlier today. There are a few that have sold on here in the past few weeks and yes, not terribly expensive. Seems that $30 is about the average. Things are tight right now so I'll probably wait on that. Little expenses add up. But, I'll try to pick one up. I'm using a Bahco/Sandvik card scraper right now and it's working pretty well. But I don't find it to be as nice on tiger striped curly maple, it tends to tear out and also scallop in the curls. Fortunately I don't use a ton of curly.

So... Granite tile. Isn't there usually texture in tile? Maybe not granite. I'll have to check that out. Seems like I have a few iron saw tops that are pretty flat. I'm guessing we're after less than a thousandth of an inch. Probably hard to measure since feeler gauges stop at around .002 or 3.

Nick - You don't say what you're trying to plane with the tool. If you make acoustical instruments and you're planing the typical fir/spruce/cedar tops, you're probably good to go with the blade that came in the plane. If you're trying to plane hard maple, you may want to consider a replacement. The blades that came in stanley planes weren't the hardest or thickest in the world, particularly the late-model ones, and such blades have an irritating habit of chattering on really hard wood.

If you want granite for a flat surface, you may as well pick up a chinese-made granite surface plate that Woodcraft sells (assuming you've a nearby store). They're pretty cheap at about $32 for the 9"X12" model, and the flatness is unquestioned (and doesn't have to be measured). It will last you for the rest of your life so long as you're not using loose grit directly on the surface.

BTW - If you're planing figured woods, you'd be well advised to put a small back-bevel on the blade of perhaps 10 degrees. It helps performance in curly wood significantly.

[Nick Sorenson]

Sorry David, not intending to be vague by any means. I do not use a ton of curly maple but I do plan on planing LOTS of hard straight grained maple. I have been using scrapers and they've worked well on non curly wood. On the curly I find that it can tend to scallop the wood. Probably a scraper plane or cabinet scraper with depth limiting would help here.

[Bill White]

Don't wanna sound like a purist, but look at all the posts in this forum. I think that we often overthink woodworking too much. A microscope to check a sharp edge????? I'll betcha that the Strad guy didn't use one. I use a #3 and a #4c for most of my plane work. I sharpen with a Makita and ceramic stone. Haven't seen any wood that would not respond well to planing with these planes. The biggest error I find is that many workers try to "hurry" the project. Betcha that the masters didn't have a time clock runnin'. Oh. They didn't use micrometers either. Good wood responds well to traditional tools.
Bill
Bill

[Mike Holbrook]

I am finishing up a couple smooth planes I made from kits, fun and saves some money as well. If you want to try out Japanese planes, Tools From Japan has a section of small to medium size planes that can be bought for similar or less money than used Stanleys and they are close to ready to use on arrival. They are a great deal. They were suggested to me as a way to try out Japanese planes; but for smaller work pieces like musical instruments they may provide the majority of your needs.

[Chris Griggs]

I am finishing up a couple smooth planes I made from kits, fun and saves some money as well. If you want to try out Japanese planes, Tools From Japan has a section of small to medium size planes that can be bought for similar or less money than used Stanleys and they are close to ready to use on arrival. They are a great deal. They were suggested to me as a way to try out Japanese planes; but for smaller work pieces like musical instruments they may provide the majority of your needs.

Which one(s) did you go with and what level of work (on the coarse-fine spectrum) do you use them for? I've been perusing Stu's site (and JWW) looking at Kanna since I bought my stones from him. Thinking they may be nice for final smoothing on the small chests, boxes and cabinets I make, where I want to minimize the force being put on the case as I plane it. Given that I mostly work relatively tame domestic hardwoods (cherry, walnut, soft maple) I was thinking a small-medium Kanna with 40 ish degree bed angle might (and I say might because I really have no idea) be a nice alternative to my metal smoother and block planes for finishing assembled cases. I've been tempted to buy one of those 42mm Ryuma planes Stu lists in that section just to give a Kanna a try, but at $30 I've had a hard time believing they'll do much for me.